14 replies to this topic

[Tiewolf]

Even if you didn`t publish all the data that i would like to see, sorry PGI that I doubted you and thx for the extended data of the TUKAYYID 3 event!

Well, nice to see in the data that my feelings and experience concerning Clan vs. IS balance wasen`t that wrong.

Even the top IS units got an avarage lower W/L Ratio then their Clan counterparts.
Over all it is more then obvious how different IS and Clan preformed.

But i guess even with data like this the Clan Crocodile Tears will whine on...

Btw. PGI how is it possible that the added numbers for Clan win+loss and the IS win+loss don`t match?
Even if a game ends in a draw, it counts for both sides and the added total win + loss on one side must be the same on the other sides...strange or i counted wrong.

Edited by Tiewolf, 31 May 2017 - 11:53 AM.

[Ced Riggs]

Sadly, as nice as the data may be, it's pre-skill tree, and thusly, borderline useless for the post-skill tree era. We shall see how things are going with the next event that pits IS vs. Clams.

[Vxheous]

Tiewolf, on 31 May 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

Even if you didn`t publish all the data that i would like to see, sorry PGI that I doubted you and thx for the extended data of the TUKAYYID 3 event!

Well, nice to see in the data that my feelings and experience concerning Clan vs. IS balance wasen`t that wrong.

Even the top IS units got an avarage lower W/L Ratio then their Clan counterparts.
Over all it is more then obvious how different IS and Clan preformed.

But i guess even with data like this the Clan Crocodile Tears will whine on...

Btw. PGI how is it possible that the added numbers for Clan win+loss and the IS win+loss don`t match?
Even if a game ends in a draw, it counts for both sides and the added total win + loss on one side must be the same on the other sides...strange or i counted wrong.

I think you missed the part where BCMC had a 93.5% win rate playing as IS (2nd in Kurita), and a 89.7% win rate playing as Clan (15th in Clan Smoke Jaguar) (they switched sides about 40% of the way through Tukayyid). Same group of guys, playing both techs, extremely similar win rate.

Looks like Teamwork and skill is OP, and not tech

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 31 May 2017 - 12:17 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Tiewolf, on 31 May 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

Even if you didn`t publish all the data that i would like to see, sorry PGI that I doubted you and thx for the extended data of the TUKAYYID 3 event!

Well, nice to see in the data that my feelings and experience concerning Clan vs. IS balance wasen`t that wrong.

Even the top IS units got an avarage lower W/L Ratio then their Clan counterparts.
Over all it is more then obvious how different IS and Clan preformed.

But i guess even with data like this the Clan Crocodile Tears will whine on...

Btw. PGI how is it possible that the added numbers for Clan win+loss and the IS win+loss don`t match?
Even if a game ends in a draw, it counts for both sides and the added total win + loss on one side must be the same on the other sides...strange or i counted wrong.

The data still doesn't take into account the relative skill levels of the players involved. PGI even stated themselves that a greater number of the more highly skilled players tend to play clan mechs so why does it alway seem to amaze people when the Clans end up with better stats in any competition? I mean you could literally have all the IS mechs performing 20% better than Clan mechs by the numbers but still have the Clan having a superior win rate due to the fact more skilled players were using clan mechs so you can't really use these numbers for any sort of balancing.

[FireStoat]

People talk about mech balance between the factions a great deal more over the fact on how the FW maps favor mechs with long range builds.

[El Bandito]

IS proportionately performed less well in Attack than Defense, in Siege maps. Which in a way reinforces my belief that IS mechs were overall more fragile than Clan mechs due to IS XL, especially when trying to rush through bottleneck.

[Wraith31]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 31 May 2017 - 12:16 PM, said:

I think you missed the part where BCMC had a 93.5% win rate playing as IS (2nd in Kurita), and a 89.7% win rate playing as Clan (15th in Clan Smoke Jaguar) (they switched sides about 40% of the way through Tukayyid). Same group of guys, playing both techs, extremely similar win rate.

Looks like Teamwork and skill is OP, and not tech

Interestingly enough, their win rate dropped when they switched sides. Given equal skill...hmm...

[Hobbles v]

Wraith31, on 31 May 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

Interestingly enough, their win rate dropped when they switched sides. Given equal skill...hmm...

Our rate went up when we switched sides. We started clan and switched to IS

[Vxheous]

Wraith31, on 31 May 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

Interestingly enough, their win rate dropped when they switched sides. Given equal skill...hmm...

you're out of the loop, they went from Clan to IS, and IS win rate was higher

[Wraith31]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 31 May 2017 - 08:21 PM, said:

you're out of the loop, they went from Clan to IS, and IS win rate was higher

Well, either way...it was higher as IS.

[SuomiWarder]

What made me chuckle is that in "scouting" matches the top three mechs for either side were 50 and 55 tonners with the Hunchback versions (including the IICs) taking 3 of 6 possible slots. Yeah, the Hunchback - choice or recon units for scouting since the Star League Era.

[kf envy]

SuomiWarder, on 31 May 2017 - 11:00 PM, said:

What made me chuckle is that in "scouting" matches the top three mechs for either side were 50 and 55 tonners with the Hunchback versions (including the IICs) taking 3 of 6 possible slots. Yeah, the Hunchback - choice or recon units for scouting since the Star League Era.

I thought the IS used atlas for scouting

[Kubernetes]

El Bandito, on 31 May 2017 - 05:41 PM, said:

IS proportionately performed less well in Attack than Defense, in Siege maps. Which in a way reinforces my belief that IS mechs were overall more fragile than Clan mechs due to IS XL, especially when trying to rush through bottleneck.

I'd say it's more a speed issue. Most Clan teams are running along at 81kph+ on the attack, maybe mid-70s for Mad-IICs, whereas IS is dealing with an oddball assortment of mechs going anywhere from 75+ to mid-50s. Your average uncoordinated pug IS team is going to get strung out all over the place.

Edited by Kubernetes, 01 June 2017 - 12:22 AM.

[Dino Might]

Viktor Drake, on 31 May 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

The data still doesn't take into account the relative skill levels of the players involved. PGI even stated themselves that a greater number of the more highly skilled players tend to play clan mechs so why does it alway seem to amaze people when the Clans end up with better stats in any competition? I mean you could literally have all the IS mechs performing 20% better than Clan mechs by the numbers but still have the Clan having a superior win rate due to the fact more skilled players were using clan mechs so you can't really use these numbers for any sort of balancing.

If IS mechs performed better than Clan mechs, then those top players would all play IS. We've seen this throughout the history of MWO. The top players flock to the best performance vehicles.

[Scyther]

What Dino said. People often get cause and effect confused there. "Clans do better because they have the better pilots" they tend to assume.

Nope. The more competitive players go wherever they can get the maximum win advantage through stacking the odds in their favor. For 90% of MWO's post-Invasion history, that's been Clan tech. If a quirkening gives IS tech the advantage, those players switch in hordes to IS, and suddenly, "IS does better because they have the better pilots".