196 replies to this topic

[James The Fox Dixon]

Wraith31, on 31 May 2017 - 09:16 PM, said:

you prefer team mates not sharing armor? Taking a 12 man push with 4 standing out of sight? Do you feel that is the best way to play the game?

Funny, but I don't see the option to give you my armor. Sharing armor is a myth and if you are going to be selfish then why should I or anyone else be there to take damage for you? It is a two way street called teamwork. I'll be sure to never drop with you ever.

[Galenit]

Wraith31, on 31 May 2017 - 08:57 PM, said:

I secure my own kills...I do not want help with that...especially from someone not sharing armor.

Then play a sologame!
I would better take a lrm boat then that kind of "team player" in my team.
I have lost too many matches by some hero firing at full armor enemys but ignoring the three other enemys with open mechs and red internals around their target.

But we all know mouthbreathers: Consider they must breath and fire and press r ...

Whats strange about that:
They allway talk about lrms, but not the "snipers" tickling the enemy at maxrange ...

Edited by Galenit, 31 May 2017 - 09:45 PM.

[Puppy Monkey Baby]

People are *******.


I take Rain quite often, and I do indeed wonder why people don't bother targeting the enemy. Is it to spite me for having the audacity to take long-range missiles into the fray?

Well, fine. I'll just hit "P" and eat a Mars bar as our team gets destroyed.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

My favorite was spectating with a teammate who had locked onto an enemy with a red CT, but was shooting at the mech beside it. "Why won't he f*cking die!? Is this some kind of hack?"

I didn't have the heart to tell him, and besides, who am I to judge? I died before he did. Funny though.

[SQW]

The first thing I did was map the radar key to E. I mean what idiot dev thought the R key is a good place to put the 2nd most used action key simply because both have the letter R in common.

Anyway, it sounds like Wraith31 is the type that will run into 270m against a splatter Vulture or stay at sniper range against a LRM KGC so all the power to him. I also suspect the guy runs nothing but MADIICs to milk PGI's crutch PPFLD for all its worth. I wonder what's his W/L ratio.

[FireStoat]

Wraith31, on 31 May 2017 - 08:57 PM, said:

I secure my own kills...I do not want help with that...especially from someone not sharing armor.

I get where you're coming from, I really do. If you pilot a light or medium mech and enter a Grim Plexus or Frozen City match with Domination, it becomes sorely depressing to have to risk your mech in securing the center while the heavy / assault LRM boats set up shop a full sector and a half away, safe and snug, and start throwing missiles out with a terrible hit rate.

Been there, seen that, got the shirt. I think I've cheered on enemy light mechs chewing them up several times too. I think that not hitting R isn't the answer. The answer is to be very alert at the start of a fight and take inventory of how many LRM / Sniper mechs are on your side. If it feels like a large amount, screw whatever the objective is and where you think you should be up towards the front. Fade back to where they are parked and just hang around. Pretty soon their position WILL be overrun and you'll be able to get into a decent fight when armor sharing is forced on them, like it or not.

Edit - tldr; no one forces you to meatshield for lazy players. If you don't like it, force the LRM / Snipers to be a part of the team by standing next to them.

Edited by FireStoat, 31 May 2017 - 10:11 PM.

[Puppy Monkey Baby]

FireStoat, on 31 May 2017 - 10:08 PM, said:

heavy / assault LRM boats set up shop a full sector and a half away, safe and snug, and start throwing missiles out with a terrible hit rate.

I hope you and I drop something so I can show you how silly this statement of yours is.

Throwing out missiles with a terrible hit rate. Well geez. What do you define a "terrible hit rate" to be? 4 LRM 20s raining down on your head is going to hurt, I don't care what the hell you're piloting.

See, I actually watch my salvos and pay attention to the enemy mech's damage percentage. If I see the missiles land on what should be the enemy mech but their damage percentage doesn't change, well damn, they found cover. Luckily, my mech (hopefully) moves! I can reposition to make their cover useless, because guess what? Mechs move, cover does not.

But hey, what do I know? I'm just a guy who takes LRMs and sits in the back not sharing armor.

[FireStoat]

Puppy Monkey Baby, on 31 May 2017 - 10:14 PM, said:

But hey, what do I know? I'm just a guy who takes LRMs and sits in the back not sharing armor.

I have dropped with you several times. I completely don't remember your style of play however. If you're using your mech to get better angles of attack then congrats! you're not one of the people I described and you're wasting your time taking offense. I'm quite willing to bet RL cash though that you HAVE seen the kinds of players I'm referring to during spectator mode when more than half of your team is dead but you have the potatoes that were playing it so safe they weren't contributing slamming missiles into hills.

If those players take offense, I could care less. Edit - you might find me hanging out with the LRM boats 'guarding them' more often in the matches with the new Meta though. Don't be shocked when it happens.

Edited by FireStoat, 31 May 2017 - 10:28 PM.

[Templar Dane]

James The Fox Dixon, on 31 May 2017 - 09:40 PM, said:

Funny, but I don't see the option to give you my armor. Sharing armor is a myth and if you are going to be selfish then why should I or anyone else be there to take damage for you? It is a two way street called teamwork. I'll be sure to never drop with you ever.

A myth? Heavily damaged mechs should be rotating back towards the rear so that they aren't the easiest target so that they can still apply their weapons for longer.

With nobody to man up and take point because everybody is heavily damaged, mechs either get routed or die on the spot. Now, if those LRM/xXx420noscopesnipaxXx mechs were up front taking some of the heat for the friendlies attrition like that is much less of an issue.

By not 'sharing armor' those players are going to end up with full armor at the end of the match and get hunted down and mauled by superior numbers.

[Baba_Yaga]

MechaBattler, on 31 May 2017 - 09:28 PM, said:

I remember this was pretty common before. We would get a thread asking why no one presses R. And people would actually answer with this. One time in a match someone asked for locks and someone berated them saying they can get their own damn locks. LOL

I don't condone it. Why screw yourself and your team over. But it's funny how spiteful people are.

Screwing your team over is sitting in the back doing nothing but lobbing missles....like a *****!

[Templar Dane]

Puppy Monkey Baby, on 31 May 2017 - 10:14 PM, said:

I hope you and I drop something so I can show you how silly this statement of yours is.

Throwing out missiles with a terrible hit rate. Well geez. What do you define a "terrible hit rate" to be? 4 LRM 20s raining down on your head is going to hurt, I don't care what the hell you're piloting.

See, I actually watch my salvos and pay attention to the enemy mech's damage percentage. If I see the missiles land on what should be the enemy mech but their damage percentage doesn't change, well damn, they found cover. Luckily, my mech (hopefully) moves! I can reposition to make their cover useless, because guess what? Mechs move, cover does not.

But hey, what do I know? I'm just a guy who takes LRMs and sits in the back not sharing armor.

The further away you are, the longer it takes for the lurms to get to the target. That's that much longer they have to get to cover, for them to get near ecm, for their radar derp to cause a loss of lock.......

And being really far away like that makes it easier for lights/flankers to find you, all they have to do is follow the LURMBOW to the pot of gold at the end. If you are at <500m you'll get more hits, you'll absorb some damage that might have otherwise gone at someone that's up front trading, you're closer to support so that when the lights/flankers follow the LURMBOW they'll get wrecked by your friendlies when they come over the hill or around the corner to get that sweet and chewy cookie.

There is nothing in this game I love more than siege pugging on hellebore springs when the enemy comes through alpha gate. I use jumpjets to get up on top and wait for the enemy to pass through the main choke because there are always lurm assaults waaaaay in the back. The rest of their team passes and they'll be 900m from the action and potential support.

[johnwolf]

no, i'm sorry, When i know that a mech has a weaken side torso and you REFUSE to look at it's damage doll....i get pissed. Locks are the single most important thing on your mech. It tells you where you should hit NOT if you're hitting it, that's not the Point of the Damage Doll. I've seen many, MANY, matches lost because some one doesn't lock and shoot at the wrong area. why sacrifice battle info for a vendetta against LRMs, you're helping no one, not even yourself, by not using it. If you think you're a good pilot, i wonder how much better you'll be when you actually start aiming for the weak points.

[Beaching Betty]

Cause their finger cant reach it

[Karl Streiger]

Wraith31, on 31 May 2017 - 08:08 PM, said:

Damage glow m8, I see where I am shooting them.

so you are the guy - that never learned to look at the damage diagram and continue shooting at the intact torso of a timber wolf - where as both the legs of this Timberwolf are internal red?

Not to mention with the proper "r" skill he would have been able to dispose both remaining timberwolfs and win the game - (Because i had shredded the other TBR.... before i went down)

It was a Mauler with 4 UAC5s... chain fire - and saw of the legs of the first - hit "r" concentrated volley in the RT/CT section for the second - time 10seconds

Like the guy that hit advanced zoom to kill a Stalker with head shot (obvious that the Stalker had an XL and the ST was wide open)

Edited by Karl Streiger, 31 May 2017 - 11:47 PM.

[johnwolf]

Karl Streiger, on 31 May 2017 - 11:44 PM, said:

so you are the guy - that never learned to look at the damage diagram and continue shooting at the intact torso of a timber wolf - where as both the legs of this Timberwolf are internal red?

Not to mention with the proper "r" skill he would have been able to dispose both remaining timberwolfs and win the game - (Because i had shredded the other TBR.... before i went down)

It was a Mauler with 4 UAC5s... chain fire - and saw of the legs of the first - hit "r" concentrated volley in the RT/CT section for the second - time 10seconds

Like the guy that hit advanced zoom to kill a Stalker with head shot (obvious that the Stalker had an XL and the ST was wide open)

yah, ******* hate matches like that...especially if they ignore the battle info and STILL aim for the other parts.....UGH...

[Vellron2005]

So, as far as I can see from the posts here, there are 2 kinds of people:

1) Those that press the "R" button to share the info, and to look for the target's weak spots

2) Those who are too selfish to press the "R" button, feel they don't need help, support, want to secure the kill for themselves by any means necessary, and basically don't care about a target's weak spots, and god forbid they should secure locks for LRM users...

This, to me, translates neatly into real life.. there are always the selfish people who want all the glory, business promotions, money, food, or whatever, for themselves, and there are those who will help a stranger by paying for their kid's birthday cake when they can't afford it themselves (referring to a famous internet story here).

I guess that's life.. some people just diss on everyone else who they feel are "beneath them", while some people realize those "beneath them" are the ones holding them up.

Sad really.. but such is the human condition.

Personally, I don't event position my crosshairs over an enemy mech without my finger hitting that controversial "R" button..

It's just second nature..

[Ced Riggs]

I like how every thread nowadays almost instantly devolves into LRMs and those that despise them.

The arguments are always the same, too. Problem is: Every side of the argument has potatoes. Be it the guy there that thinks making the kill matters himself more than making the kill as a team, or someone that runs 6 cERMLL, 1 cAC/2, 1 cAC10, 1 LPL on an executioner. Direct-fire doesn't make immune from starch-laden root behaviour. Full alphas going into walls, Stormcrows panicking, seen it all, hell, done it all myself. But the one constant is that LRM boat players seem to be under the conviction that they contribute a lot and are simply not creditted for their efforts.

That quad LRM20 Scorch/Supernova could have been a ruthless frontline pusher, dealing 1000 damage and more to targetted components and not just 700 damage of spread confetti. That Lurmbear could have turned a corner and destroyed a poking enemy. That Warhawk could have laid down barrages of cERPPC fire ripping people apart. Instead, they are not pushing, but hanging behind the line. Mediums and Heavies need to carry their burden, and those chassis don't have the armor or structure to push as hard. They simply die before the push gains momentum.

And that's the single most effective tactic in MWO - the heavy armor push. With the current TTK, any team that doesn't have a layered firing line set up cannot stop a push. More guns on them, constantly moving, rolling over the enemy. And LRMs cannot add to that, except for 1,) inaccurate 2,) slow 3,) easily blocked damage.

I tried a couple of LRM mechs now, to see what the magic was. How to properly run LRMs and be useful. I ran a HBK4J, and ended up with 500, 600 damage - most of that from the three medium lasers and walking with the push. Even tanked some shots. Always fired LRMs with 200 to 350 metres, made my volleys count, didn't blast cover. I went with a Maddog, complete with energy weapons and such. Did the same thing, another 600 damage. In this case, most from the LRMs - but without many KKMD or kills. My team desintegrated around me, and I ended up the last one standing. Without the team to asssist with locks, the LRMs were borderline useless - because even with backup energy, TAG, BAP and backpedaling to keep the distance, the LRMs did not deal a good amount or a precise kind of damage.

LRMs are, in their current state, a comfort blanket. You don't have to dare marching into the fire, you don't have to improve your aim, and you can make up empty stories about how you "made it rain" and "supported your team". Thing is, your team supports you. Keeps you alive, and gives you the luxury of blasting their backs with your piddly missiles and not having to dare and stay cool under pressure. You can hang back, pop a beer, watch the Sports McSportsters fight the Sportingdale Sportlovers in the current Sportsball season and hover your reticule over a square.

And the final nail in the coffin is: "Please hold locks, LRM boat here."

You know why people lock on to something? To scan for components. They will not go out of their way to hold a lock under fire or while exposed so an LRM boat can deal 27 damage spread across the entire chassis with 80 missiles, after terrain and AMS ate the other 53. I'm ignoring those requests, because I'll hold the lock that we need at the frontline of the push, and that we are focussing on, as long as I can without overextending or risking getting shot to bits.

But I am not holding that lock for the LRM boats.

That being said: Press R. Your team needs to know the component damage. Even if you are mad about LRM boats.

Edited by Ced Riggs, 01 June 2017 - 12:03 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

El Bandito, on 31 May 2017 - 08:39 PM, said:

That only happens if you are hugging the target from certain angle. And what's wrong about kill securing? I'm sure you have done enough securing as well.

Just on this note... LRMs have to be the worst "kill securing" weapon in the game, support DPS, yeah, unique in how it can deal damage from out of LOS, yeah. Good at quickly taking down damaged targets/targeting critical locations on a mech to secure a kill? What? No? They are terrible at that. Give me a 140kph+ sharpshooting poke light for that job over the LRM boat any day of the week. If someone is using an LRM boat to "secure kills" or thinks they are, IDK man I feel like they are doing it wrong.

As for pressing R, I do it whenever I remember to, but in most cases it takes too long to provide basic information and becomes pretty useless to do, I still do it unless I forget or am in panic mode, but it rarely does anything for me. Plus the targeting can be exceedingly "dumb" at times with who it goes to target. Sometimes it is better to just shoot the target and let my weapons light him up for the targeting system, rather than look at him, get shot by him, hit R, wait for data, get shot some more, then finally get to see (maybe) what condition he is in, or not and wait eternally getting shot.

[Dee Eight]

Wraith31, on 31 May 2017 - 08:35 PM, said:

I am also preventing them from hitting me in the back while they try to kill the target I spent all the time killing...

Considering you apparently haven't played the game at all in 11 months... not sure who's back shots exactly that you're preventing.

El Bandito, on 31 May 2017 - 08:39 PM, said:

That only happens if you are hugging the target from certain angle. And what's wrong about kill securing? I'm sure you have done enough securing as well.

Not according to the leaderboard he/she hasn't. No results for 11 months so either someone who doesn't actually play (but still talks like he/she does) or this is an alternate account.

SQW, on 31 May 2017 - 10:05 PM, said:

Anyway, it sounds like Wraith31 is the type that will run into 270m against a splatter Vulture or stay at sniper range against a LRM KGC so all the power to him. I also suspect the guy runs nothing but MADIICs to milk PGI's crutch PPFLD for all its worth. I wonder what's his W/L ratio.

0 apparently because there's no games played in 11 seasons. Not even season 1 which didn't have the 10 match minimum for tracking results.

Edited by Dee Eight, 01 June 2017 - 12:29 AM.

[Kubernetes]

The only time I could see this being justifiable is if you're in a light stalking an enemy from behind and you don't want to give him the targeting ping or have allied LRMs start shooting at him. Even then, it still pays to hit R before you start shooting (I've gotten a fair number of one-shot backstabs on stuff like dual-gauss Warhammers because of targeting info).

I also don't understand why the R binding is controversial. It's the standard keypress to Reload in most FPSs, so it shouldn't be that hard. I'm an obsessive reloader, and I'm also an obsessive target cycler. I don't even know which finger I use, it just seems to press itself nonstop through most matches.

Edited by Kubernetes, 01 June 2017 - 12:45 AM.