196 replies to this topic

[MustrumRidcully]

I guess people that don't press R are the same people that say the whole Sensor Tree is useless.

And probably the same that end up trying to catch a locust in their Advanced Zoom running in from of them ...



Or they are the people that just can't multi-task enough and have already too many controls to manage...

[Luminis]

Gotta say, I love how many folks are patting themselves on the back for being better players and, in some cases, even morally superior human beings IRL because they provide locks. Whatever helps you sleep at night, I guess.

But hey, getting called out as a bad player and / or a morally inferior human being (lol) is worth it, at times. A "price" I'm willing to pay for not rewarding someone for sitting almost one kilometre out, lobbing lurms from a safe distance while the team might need that Assault's tonnage and armour at the front, where Heavies and Mediums are getting shot up. Besides, if those players are free to ruin it for their team, us immoral, spiteful lock-deniers ought to have that same privilege.

Just gotta make sure it doesn't become a habit and refusing to lock remains reserved to those matches that are lost by a critical mass of run-of-the-mill lazy lurmboat captains on your team anyway. Don't wanna mess with someone who's actually trying - but then again, my personal, purely anecdotal experience suggests that the majority of players that pick LRM centric loadouts are indeed the sort of players that do so because they want some meatshield to take the heat for them while they farm safe damage. Find myself spectating that sort of player fast too often after the rest of the team fell to an enemy push...

[Ced Riggs]

Luminis, on 01 June 2017 - 01:27 AM, said:

Find myself spectating that sort of player fast too often after the rest of the team fell to an enemy push...

"Lurm dads" :^)

[Lorcryst NySell]

First, a question : what targeting ping ? I've never had that when I was targeted myself, and I know I was since I was taking missile damage and it stopped when I broke LOS/lock by moving into cover.

Then, an opinion :

Stop bashing the LRMs, they are a valid weapon option, are not so easy to use as most think (because of things like flight time, flight path, cover, ecm, ams and more hard counters), but when you have a good LRM user in your team, it makes a ton of difference ... yes, it's spread damage, but if I can open some locations from afar while my team and myself are closing the distance, I can guarantee that it will be an easier fight once The Big Brawl starts.

Finally :

ALWAYS LOCK TARGETS.

Not for the LRM boats, not for your team, but for YOURSELF so you can see where to shoot, if your shots hit their intended target, the weapon loadout of the target so you can try to avoid some massive damage (like, ooooh that Stormcrow is full of Streaks, let's fight him from 400m away instead of getting shredded at less than 270m), and that little 3000 CBills + 30 XP Scouting bonus.

[Cementi]

Wraith31, on 31 May 2017 - 06:47 PM, said:

Some people deliberately avoid pressing R because it means that LRM boats are deprived of targets. With damage glow, you can see where you hit them...

If you starve the buzzards long enough, they move on to scavenge somewhere else.

Some people are sadly too stupid to realize that pressing R allows them to pick the right components to shoot to kill a target quickly. In addition pressing R allows LRM support to assist in the kill by adding indirect damage and cockpick shake to the target, which makes it difficult for it to return direct fire. Again sadly a bonus that some people are to stupid to appreciate.

Figured I would fix that for you.

[Roadbuster]

The "R" button is a myth!
Rumors say that in ancient times, people used that button because if was such a great help when looking for an enemies weak spots. There are also speculations that it was used to get support from other mechs.
Somehow all this knowledge must've been lost in the dark ages of war, when people lost faith in their teammates.


Honestly, if you don't use targetting, you're hurting yourself AND your team.
I could care less about LRMs hitting my target. I don't care where the damage comes from, as long as it comes.
If a LRM boat is just hiding 900m away and not sharing a bit of armor too, that's bad ofc. But instead of making them completely useless, I'd rather have them rain down death and destruction as much as possible.
It's not just the damage of LRMs which helps. It's the distraction and shake/blind effect which helps too.


Work with what you get and don't be a pain for the rest of the team. That goes for LRM haters and LRM boaters alike.

And stop the LRM hate!
I have a whooping 5 mechs (out of 120+) which make heavy use of LRMs. All with enough backup weapons to be a threat without LRMs and I'm sharing my armor and getting my own targets too. But the hate I've come across, just because I used LRMs, was insane sometimes.

Edited by Roadbuster, 01 June 2017 - 02:23 AM.

[xengk]

remember this boys and girls,

[Nesutizale]

El Bandito, on 31 May 2017 - 08:18 PM, said:

No, you are lowering your team's win chance by intentionally preventing friendly LRMs from hitting the target.

And, you have less idea on the enemy's actual weak point. You could be shooting a perfectly healthy torso when the one right next to it is red.

Exactly this.

I don't get it why you would want to reduce your chance of winning by not using R. Even if some LRM boat is using your target lock, its just extra firepower going down on the target. The faster the target goes down, the more likely it is that you take less damage from the enemy.

Also some mixed builds with LRMs as a second weapons do wonders in softeing up your target or when your team split and you got your targets down its a good way to support your team even over hills while you get to them.
It happend so many times to me that haveing a single LRM10 or 15 worked wonders in distracting the enemy, killing a light at the other side of the map that tries to cap the base and other situations.

Also for fun see TheB33Fs LRM vids or Kanajashi...LRMs are a valid option.

Edited by Nesutizale, 01 June 2017 - 02:46 AM.

[Ced Riggs]

Lorcryst NySell, on 01 June 2017 - 02:06 AM, said:

Stop bashing the LRMs, they are a valid weapon option, are not so easy to use as most think (because of things like flight time, flight path, cover, ecm, ams and more hard counters), but when you have a good LRM user in your team, it makes a ton of difference ... yes, it's spread damage, but if I can open some locations from afar while my team and myself are closing the distance, I can guarantee that it will be an easier fight once The Big Brawl starts.

These statements are, sadly, all incorrect.

LRMs are, by and far, the worst weapon system in MWO.
All those "skills" are irrelevant, because even under ideal situations without any counters present, LRMs underperform.
LRMs don't make a big difference, because once they reach the threshold where they could, your team lost too much firepower/armor for it to matter.
And in a big brawl, the team that has more armor in the fight and more guns on the enemy wins.

[LordNothing]

El Bandito, on 31 May 2017 - 08:18 PM, said:

No, you are lowering your team's win chance by intentionally preventing friendly LRMs from hitting the target.

And, you have less idea on the enemy's actual weak point. You could be shooting a perfectly healthy torso when the one right next to it is red.

well theres that, but when im in a brawl i love it when the other guy takes lerm fire. this lets me manage my heat better so that i can make sure i get the kill shot. even better sometimes it makes him turn for cover which gives me the back shot. either of these cases you get points for holding that lock. and since you already planned to fight him, nothing lost.

[LordNothing]

had this one game, it was a loss from the get go. people were spreading a lot of damage and not getting their kill shots. this frequently happens to teams that dont hit r btw. anyway i had already got 2 kills by the time 10 ouf 12 players were dead. me and the another team mate ended up holed up behind a building with 3 mechs closing in from 2 different directions, i managed to get a scan of all 3 before they attacked, so i knew who i can finish quickly and who can wait. over the next several seconds i managed to kill 2 more and core out a third before getting killed. after that i spectated the last player and watch him try to leg the mech that was seconds ago cherry ct. had he hit r he might have ended with a better score.

dont even think about it, if its not an automatic reflex you are doing it wrong.

Edited by LordNothing, 01 June 2017 - 03:15 AM.

[Phoolan Devi]

Wraith31, on 31 May 2017 - 06:47 PM, said:

Some people deliberately avoid pressing R because it means that LRM boats are deprived of targets. With damage glow, you can see where you hit them...

If you starve the buzzards long enough, they move on to scavenge somewhere else.

That is the most stupid reason I ever heard given for not pressing R. Ok......actually there are no good reasons for not pressing R. It gimpes your own performance and thus the team as such! But, potatoes are gonna potatoe, right^^

[Necromonger Commander]

Is there a Macro for this?

[Necromonger Commander]

I push R, but I agree that the Sensor Tree is largely useless...except way down in Radar Derp and target decay for Lurmers.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Templar Dane, on 31 May 2017 - 11:03 PM, said:

A myth? Heavily damaged mechs should be rotating back towards the rear so that they aren't the easiest target so that they can still apply their weapons for longer.

With nobody to man up and take point because everybody is heavily damaged, mechs either get routed or die on the spot. Now, if those LRM/xXx420noscopesnipaxXx mechs were up front taking some of the heat for the friendlies attrition like that is much less of an issue.

By not 'sharing armor' those players are going to end up with full armor at the end of the match and get hunted down and mauled by superior numbers.

Again a myth. You want others to take damage so you and your poor piloting is covered up.

[Khobai]

Sensors need to be more useful so theres a reason to actually acquire and hold locks

I think weapons should only do damage beyond optimum range to targets that you have a sensor lock on.

Not only does that make sensors more important but it gives long range weapons like gauss and erppc and ERLL a much needed kick in the balls. It reigns in the max ranges and would make the game less snipy and more brawly.

Edited by Khobai, 01 June 2017 - 05:11 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Khobai, on 01 June 2017 - 05:09 AM, said:

Sensors need to be more useful so theres a reason to actually acquire and hold locks

I think weapons should only do damage beyond optimum range to targets that you have a sensor lock on.

Not only does that make sensors more important but it gives long range weapons like gauss and erppc and ERLL a much needed kick in the balls. It reigns in the max ranges and would make the game less snipy and more brawly.

But can we stretch ranges for another 50% for all weapons - keep speed and spread the same - below 1000m everything becomes a knife fight fast.

[Khobai]

Quote

But can we stretch ranges for another 50% for all weapons - keep speed and spread the same - below 1000m everything becomes a knife fight fast.

maybe. but the important part is tying the ability to to damage into having sensor locks. so you force people to get sensor locks.

[Karl Streiger]

Khobai, on 01 June 2017 - 05:14 AM, said:

maybe. but the important part is tying the ability to to damage into having sensor locks. so you force people to get sensor locks.

like it was in CB - you did need to hit r so that your weapons did focus faster - reason why ECM was a ultimate invulnerable tool in the first months.

[Vellron2005]

Ced Riggs, on 01 June 2017 - 02:51 AM, said:

These statements are, sadly, all incorrect.

LRMs are, by and far, the worst weapon system in MWO.
All those "skills" are irrelevant, because even under ideal situations without any counters present, LRMs underperform.
LRMs don't make a big difference, because once they reach the threshold where they could, your team lost too much firepower/armor for it to matter.
And in a big brawl, the team that has more armor in the fight and more guns on the enemy wins.

All those skills are irrelevant? LRMs under-perform? LRMs don't make a big difference?

Yeah, keep telling yourself that when my LRM rain pushes you to cower and huddle behind some random rock or face loosing parts of your mech to something you can't even see, before my brawlers ever get to you, all nice and fresh..

In a big brawl, team with more armor in the fight and more guns on the enemy wins? Really?

And how will you provide more guns if your second-line guys can't shoot my second line guys, and my second line guys shoot over first line guys and still hit and damage all of your guys?

You know, terrain and bottlenecks matter..

If I can lob LRMs at you from half a map away, while my assault guys hold that bottleneck, your numbers, like in the movie 300, count for nothing..

You really should learn about strategy, and why artillery units exist on the modern battlefield. And why any smart military force will first soften up and discourage enemy units by bombardment and artillery before sending in ground troops..

You guys really need to stop treating MWO like it's Unreal tournament..

P.S.

I would really like to see some statistical data about weapons used, saaay, during TUK3, and how "effective" they were.. I think you would not find that LRMs are any less useful and effective than any other weapon..

And flatly saying they are "the worst weapon system in MWO" without any actual proof of this is just your personal opinion, and then you can also say that PPC's actually fire live chickens, but you can't really see them because of lag

Edited by Vellron2005, 01 June 2017 - 05:32 AM.