422 replies to this topic

[BadgerBeard]

I'm curious about how much bullying is actually going on in game?

I've spent a reasonable amount of time boating lrm's and have never been openly insulted/ criticized for that choice, at least not by my own team....I have been called the odd profanity by someone who just died to my lrm's, but in those circumstances the ire is understandable, if not wholly acceptable.

I do wonder if there is more of it going on at lower/ higher tiers? Low tiers my well be made up of rather poor players, specifically those who are unwilling or incapable of self-analysis, and subsequently have to find anything other than their own actions to blame their lack of progress on. This is something I saw extensively playing WoT. So many players there who seem utterly incapable of accepting personal responsibility for their own actions it's just amazing. These were generally the most vocal about the flaws in their team and/ or "hackers" " ******* arty" etc.

Should be said....I never carry lrm's on anything larger than a medium mech ( rare exception was catapults back when I was trying to elite them), and I do my best to be as effective as possible with them. This is a personal choice so as not to take up valuable tonnage on the team with what is, even to me as a lrm user, a sub-par weapon system.

Ironically, the only times I have been personally insulted by a team mate/ mates, was in other ( non-lrm) mechs....and to be fair only when I've derped-out in spectacular fashion, and subsequently I consider the criticism to be fair enough. I'm not an expert player by any stretch of imagination, and I screw-up on a regular basis...I have little issue with being called on it when I do.

As far as forum hate goes, tbh it just seems that there will always be those who hate indirect fire weapons. Regardless of how good/ bad those weapons might actually be, it seems to be the principle that annoys them. PGI could probably nerf lrms into the ground, mnaking them do zero damage across the board, and people would still probably moan about the cockpit-shake.

Edit to clarify: I consider there to be considerable difference between " forum hate" and people civilly discussing the relative merits of a weapon system, and what it's strengths, or lack thereof, are..or should be.

Edited by BadgerBeard, 01 June 2017 - 10:15 AM.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Antares102, on 01 June 2017 - 10:10 AM, said:

Just as expected ... another coward.
None of you big mouth ever accepted my challange.
At first they claim superior game sense and then hide when it comes to prove it.
Good riddance.

I gave you a chance to prove yourself, but you chickened out by refusing to answer questions about Forest Colony and tactics. Also, gambling is a sin and is against my religion. I would no more bet you then I would play powerball or buy a lottery ticket.

[sycocys]

James The Fox Dixon, on 01 June 2017 - 10:11 AM, said:

I gave you a chance to prove yourself, but you chickened out by refusing to answer questions about Forest Colony and tactics.

He answered you with the truth based on how comp teams play and this game works, your refusal to accept that doesn't make it any less true.

[Ced Riggs]

James The Fox Dixon, on 01 June 2017 - 10:04 AM, said:

You failed, so no wager and I'm going to ignore everything you've said.

With all due respect, but your behaviour is pompous and pathetic. I don't even have anything else to add here.

[Antares102]

James The Fox Dixon, on 01 June 2017 - 10:04 AM, said:

How many whiners of LRMs do you see that are the majority of so-called competitive players? I'd say about 90% of them with the standard tear filled cry being that LRMs are no skill and that they can't shoot back because they're hiding behind cover.

Then god damn use your LRMs and defeat me and prove me wrong.
Have you ever seen any threads of these players whining about LRMs beyonf their first month of playing?

• Celyth
  
• Coburn
  
• prtNspz
  
• TwinkyOverlord
  
• Araara
  
• CarNaGe X
  
• F i s s i o n
  
• heimdelight
  
• Imminent
  
• Nova-
  
• s o l i t u d e
  
• slummy

• Da Red Goes DA FASTA
  
• oldhasu
  
• Dungeon Keeper
  
• FunkyCat
  
• Hardoc
  
• Igor Kozyrev
  
• L3golas
  
• tt1a
  
• xCico
  
• Zeleglok
  
• chiXu
  
• Quintt

• 
  Jay Z
  
• Kageru Ikazuchi
  
• Knoife
  
• Emdee
  
• MickaStarkiller
  
• BluntObject
  
• Stonefalcon
  
• Halimede
  
• Hatepriest
  
• SnowDragon
  
• anids
  
• Hairball359

If you find one please point me to it and you earn a mech pack ! (only valid for Mr Tier 5 I win 90% of my games).

James The Fox Dixon, on 01 June 2017 - 10:11 AM, said:

I gave you a chance to prove yourself, but you chickened out by refusing to answer questions about Forest Colony and tactics. Also, gambling is a sin and is against my religion. I would no more bet you then I would play powerball or buy a lottery ticket.

Ok then we play just to prove a point without any reward involved.
The one that chickened out first was you refusing my offer to play a 1vs1.

And BTW while tactics are debateable the only acceptable evidence are hard facts and results.
Therefore you can take you forest colony questions and shove them in here:



Because this is what you are doing with your questions.
Distracting from the facts.

Edited by Antares102, 01 June 2017 - 10:23 AM.

[Vxheous]

James The Fox Dixon, on 01 June 2017 - 10:09 AM, said:

And you have no clue about role warfare or this game in general if all you can do is direct fire weapons. Cry more because my coffee cup for tears is a little low.

Comp play has the highest level of role warfare, again you have no clue. Lights actually scout (and cap), and back pressure. Mediums actually hold flanks, and reposition quickly to protect the heavies/assaults. Heavies actually do the front line pressure, and Assaults actually provide heavy supportive fire. No Clue

[Raidflex]

You guys can argue back and forth but what this all boils down to is most players in this game do not want to be support. LRMs in the end just get pushed further and further away and close combat becomes king. There can and will be reasons to use LRMs in a SUPPORT role, but this is not the majority.

The maps also heavily effect how LRMs are used in the game, along with teamwork. PGI could go back and forth trying to "balance" LRMs and there will always be people that are salty.

[Xiphias]

VanillaG, on 01 June 2017 - 09:43 AM, said:

Not being as good as PPFLD or Laser Vomit in the comp scene does not mean that they are broken at the mechanic level. It appears that comp scene has devolved around pinpoint damage and is ignoring spread damage weapons because pinpoint allows quicker kills.

The simple solution to not seeing LRMs in comp play is to require a certain number of LRM tubes on a team. You already have class or tonnage limits so it should be relatively easy to implement build rules similar to NASCAR. If you required comp teams to actually use LRMs you would get better feedback about the LRM mechanics than just "they suck compared to other types of weapons." and you would see a change in tactics to incorporate LRMs.

They have never (or rarely) been a choice on the comp scene because other weapons are better. Almost every other weapon system has seen use, from SRMs to flamers.

Outside of competitive LRMs end up being a feast of famine weapon system. On some maps or against certain team compositions (lots of AMS or ECM) LRMs are practically useless. On a map such as polar against disorganized players without ECM or AMS they can be devastating. This isn't a good mechanic because it makes LRMs an unreliable system. The lock on makes them easy for a new player to pick up, but the flight time and spread makes them easy for a good player to avoid. Without changing the mechanic I don't see how you can fix this problem.

Forcing people to take LRMs in comp doesn't fix the problem with the mechanic and it's not going to help get better feedback. You'll just see teams do the bare minimum to hit the regulation. In particular, fast mediums that can flank are the best use of LRMs.

James The Fox Dixon, on 01 June 2017 - 09:47 AM, said:

Way to put yourself up on that pedestal there. No, competitive players do not have a holistic understanding of the game. If they did then they would be arguing the merits of combined arms and the use of tactics. They don't. They are all about PPFLD and the depth of their tactics is to form a firing line in the hope the other team walks into it. Yeah, we're talking comp players being at the tactical level of Napoleonics while other players are at the level of modern combined arms with in depth tactics and strategies. Do you need help patting yourself on the back or do you have it?

The fact that you are rambling about combined arms and tactics shows that you have no idea how this game works in an organized setting. You are commenting about something you know nothing about. If you want your tactics to be respected then put together a team and prove it in a league, then you will get respect. Your opinion is uniformed and you show no desire to make it more informed. I've both run with and against LRMs. Have you done any comp? Which of us is likely to have a more holistic view?

In real life combined arms is a thing. In MWO it really isn't. In the same way that it would be stupid to use Napoleonic tactics in a modern war, it's stupid to try and apply real world tactics to a video game where they don't apply.

Your "in-depth strategies" don't work. They are bad. If you think they are good you are bad and your recent stats prove as much. Tactics rely on the ability to adapt. If a tactic doesn't work you adapt and drop it for a new one. Your adherence to combined arms in MWO shows that you are not able to adapt your tactics to your environment. You're just regurgitating things that have been fed to you blindly without actually thinking for yourself.

You understand none of the nuance of competitive play and offer no evidence that your tactics are superior in this setting. Go and start winning leagues with "combined arms" or show me the team that does and you'll have a leg to stand on. Otherwise it's just idealistic posturing of the world as you wish it was, not reality.

Edited by Xiphias, 01 June 2017 - 10:20 AM.

[Lorcryst NySell]

Antares102, on 01 June 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

<long list of names>

I can honeslty say that I've never seen a post by any of those, either, defending or salting anything.

So yes, silent majority.

[sycocys]

I kind of want to 1v1 Antares and Vxheous just so they can video it and show how on point they are even against a pretty decent player.

Though they'd have to buy some LRM tubes because that's the only way it'd even remotely support their viability is if they ran them against a less skilled player direct firing onto them. Plus it would feel good to kill those guys for a change.

[Antares102]

Lorcryst NySell, on 01 June 2017 - 10:21 AM, said:

I can honeslty say that I've never seen a post by any of those, either, defending or salting anything.

So yes, silent majority.

And this is exactly how real comp players work in most games.
They are not debating the game, they are working out the game.

sycocys, on 01 June 2017 - 10:28 AM, said:

I kind of want to 1v1 Antares and Vxheous just so they can video it and show how on point they are even against a pretty decent player.

Though they'd have to buy some LRM tubes because that's the only way it'd even remotely support their viability is if they ran them against a less skilled player direct firing onto them. Plus it would feel good to kill those guys for a change.

Well we can do that.. any number of games you like.
Accept friend request in game mate
Problem is I cannot record games

Edited by Antares102, 01 June 2017 - 10:30 AM.

[Lorcryst NySell]

Antares102, on 01 June 2017 - 10:28 AM, said:

And this is exactly how real comp players work in most games.
They are not debating the game, they are working out the game.

So how do you know their wisdom if they don't share it ?

Besides, I find the whole concept of "real comp players" in video games ludicrously funny ...

In real sports, where it takes years of dedication to reach a "comp" level of play like the first leagues of football in Europe (I don't know much about the handegg version played in the US), you will still see the same tactics used by both teams (the point being to get a ball into a goal), it's the physical fitness, team coordination and fighting spirit that wins games. And they SHARE THEIR KNOWLEDGE.

When I was young I played lots of various team sports, and the most important moment after training and matches was always the debriefing where the coach and players TALKED about was went right, went wrong, how to be better etc.

Those "mythical" (in the sense of rarely seen) top comp players keep their observations to themselves ... so they don't share them with the most important people : PGI ... so PGI is not able to have valuable info like metrics from said comp players ...

Ergo, said comp players are in their own sandbox, playing between themselves, and having absolutely no effect on the 90% of the population that doesn't play comp games.

[Vxheous]

sycocys, on 01 June 2017 - 10:28 AM, said:

I kind of want to 1v1 Antares and Vxheous just so they can video it and show how on point they are even against a pretty decent player.

Though they'd have to buy some LRM tubes because that's the only way it'd even remotely support their viability is if they ran them against a less skilled player direct firing onto them. Plus it would feel good to kill those guys for a change.

Add me in game, we can definitely play. Or bring a few friends and we can 4vs4 or something (90% of the time when I'm playing, my wife is playing as well, and her stats are about the same as mine)

[James The Fox Dixon]

Antares102, on 01 June 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

Then god damn use your LRMs and defeat me and prove me wrong.
Have you ever seen any threads of these players whining about LRMs beyonf their first month of playing?

• Celyth
  
• Coburn
  
• prtNspz
  
• TwinkyOverlord
  
• Araara
  
• CarNaGe X
  
• F i s s i o n
  
• heimdelight
  
• Imminent
  
• Nova-
  
• s o l i t u d e
  
• slummy

• Da Red Goes DA FASTA
  
• oldhasu
  
• Dungeon Keeper
  
• FunkyCat
  
• Hardoc
  
• Igor Kozyrev
  
• L3golas
  
• tt1a
  
• xCico
  
• Zeleglok
  
• chiXu
  
• Quintt

• 
  
  Jay Z
  
• Kageru Ikazuchi
  
• Knoife
  
• Emdee
  
• MickaStarkiller
  
• BluntObject
  
• Stonefalcon
  
• Halimede
  
• Hatepriest
  
• SnowDragon
  
• anids
  
• Hairball359

If you find one please point me to it and you earn a mech pack ! (only valid for Mr Tier 5 I win 90% of my games).





Ok then we play just to prove a point without any reward involved.
The one that chickened out first was you refusing my offer to play a 1vs1.

And BTW while tactics are debateable the only acceptable evidence are hard facts and results.
Therefore you can take you forest colony questions and shove them in here:

Because this is what you are doing with your questions.
Distracting from the facts.

I gave you hard facts and you didn't like them. No, you cried even harder and you pouted.

I asked you questions to test your knowledge of the game. Since you failed to answer those questions regarding your claim about having better tactics only tells me and others that you don't have the slightest clue about them.

Sun Tzu and the Art of War applies here as it does to real world battles. I asked you those questions based upon it. Since you have nothing to add to this conversation and just want to prove the OP right then have a good day.

[Antares102]

Lorcryst NySell, on 01 June 2017 - 10:35 AM, said:

So how do you know their wisdom if they don't share it ?

Besides, I find the whole concept of "real comp players" in video games ludicrously funny ...

In real sports, where it takes years of dedication to reach a "comp" level of play like the first leagues of football in Europe (I don't know much about the handegg version played in the US), you will still see the same tactics used by both teams (the point being to get a ball into a goal), it's the physical fitness, team coordination and fighting spirit that wins games. And they SHARE THEIR KNOWLEDGE.

When I was young I played lots of various team sports, and the most important moment after training and matches was always the debriefing where the coach and players TALKED about was went right, went wrong, how to be better etc.

Those "mythical" (in the sense of rarely seen) top comp players keep their observations to themselves ... so they don't share them with the most important people : PGI ... so PGI is not able to have valuable info like metrics from said comp players ...

Ergo, said comp players are in their own sandbox, playing between themselves, and having absolutely no effect on the 90% of the population that doesn't play comp games.

Uhm... twitch?
Hm... youtube?
Hmm.. lets see... FOCKING PLAYING WITH THEM?

You know how to learn from the best? Proton for example?
If he plays serious builds just join up with him, follow him and attack any target that he attacks.
Got a few nice runs like this with many top comp players.
You will learn stuff believe me.

Edited by Antares102, 01 June 2017 - 10:40 AM.

[Vxheous]

Lorcryst NySell, on 01 June 2017 - 10:35 AM, said:

So how do you know their wisdom if they don't share it ?

Besides, I find the whole concept of &quot;real comp players&quot; in video games ludicrously funny ...

In real sports, where it takes years of dedication to reach a &quot;comp&quot; level of play like the first leagues of football in Europe (I don't know much about the handegg version played in the US), you will still see the same tactics used by both teams (the point being to get a ball into a goal), it's the physical fitness, team coordination and fighting spirit that wins games. And they SHARE THEIR KNOWLEDGE.

When I was young I played lots of various team sports, and the most important moment after training and matches was always the debriefing where the coach and players TALKED about was went right, went wrong, how to be better etc.

Those &quot;mythical&quot; (in the sense of rarely seen) top comp players keep their observations to themselves ... so they don't share them with the most important people : PGI ... so PGI is not able to have valuable info like metrics from said comp players ...

Ergo, said comp players are in their own sandbox, playing between themselves, and having absolutely no effect on the 90% of the population that doesn't play comp games.

They do share their knowledge. Gman has metamechs, EmP runs church of skill (usually every monday you can go on their teamspral and they'll group with you and play for a few hours, no prior aquaintance needed.) SjR does the same thing (or they used to). If you care to improve in the game, even casually, there are so many places to learn. Even go and watch Proton stream, and watch his positioning and decision making

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 01 June 2017 - 10:40 AM.

[Curccu]

Xiphias, on 01 June 2017 - 05:55 AM, said:

LRMs used in serious comp play: 0

That's the only proof of the lack of effectiveness you need.

That is not entirely true.
WDMC has used LRMS at least... twice in MRBC over past few years, 1st we won other we lost by caps in conquest after decimating enemy team, excluding their other light mech because ran out of sticks to throw at them

[FuhNuGi]

Antares102, on 01 June 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

.

He has too many tubes for his tonnage.

We must nerf him...
Or does he need a Webelnerf to go with his Nebelwerf?

Is this the latest IS light mech?

[Deathlike]

What would happen if a Tier 5 unicorn player plays against the Tier 1 guys... hmm.

I've already heard the horror/farming stories from players with alt accounts in the lower tiers... watching good play is different from watching LRMs hit obstacles like buildings or terrain.

[sycocys]

Antares102, on 01 June 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

Well we can do that.. any number of games you like.
Accept friend request in game mate
Problem is I cannot record games

Vxheous Kerensky, on 01 June 2017 - 10:36 AM, said:

Add me in game, we can definitely play. Or bring a few friends and we can 4vs4 or something (90% of the time when I'm playing, my wife is playing as well, and her stats are about the same as mine)

Word, I'll get at you guys in-game hopefully this evening yet. Just on downtime between routes for work, and I have to patch up an exhaust pipe after so it will survive until the weekend but I'll hop on after I get through that and see what you are up to.