422 replies to this topic

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Jiang Wei, on 02 June 2017 - 10:55 AM, said:

You wouldnt be winning without the damage of that mech though. When you are pushing down the enemy easily its because they already had huge holes punched in their armor from you long range assault mech. And in all honesty, if you are winning without your long range support contributing, then you are just getting lucky that the other team sucks worse than you do.

Actually the teams win by taking Superior positions on the map (or the enemy is terrible enough to take Inferior positions on purpose), so AGAIN when +500 damage of their +800 damage total is done after the Match HAS ALREADY BEEN WON because CGL (Combat Group Loss) has already set in... that is the very definition of Being Carried. I would say that on average at least 60% of the time Matches are played are in the macro sense wasted time, once Chess players see the end then they tip their King, here we are required to go through all the moves until it over but it is still essentially wasted time since the end game has already been laid out. I understand that you have no real understanding of the game I am actually talking about since you think that cGauss/cERPPC is good in Solo, it means you have no real experience with Battletech and the experience that MWO has given you is a gross caricature of that. Solo plays a lot more like an actual Battletech game unlike Group/Comp which bears absolutely zero resemblance to it... so I will not correct you about the perverse version of Battletech you play & you do not try to talk things that you do not understand in the slightest.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 02 June 2017 - 11:04 AM, said:

Do you know what pins mechs in place better? Gauss/PPC

No it does not... you require LOS and need to be exposed to even threaten it. It is so enjoyable to watch those people who think they are good and bring those Cancer Mechs in Solo get easily pulled down once you remind your teammates that they have absolutely NO DPS once you get in close. I generally feel sorry for the enemy team when they get stuck with too much Cancer (+4 mechs)... it is never even remotely a decent match. Take out the Brawler/Midrange mechs while all the L33T SNYPER!!!!11!!!1 are hiding in the back & retreating, then just pull them down so they die like the cowards they while running away. I mean... I do not understand why people can not even pretend to be brave while in a video game... standing and delivering like a man would not result in your actual death in real life, but they all die running like beaten dogs. Truly Pathetic

[Wolfwood592]

this post lost me at........racism.

You can make a point without trying to bring more attention to it in this manner. And if YOU feel like someone is being racist towards your use of LRMs in a digital game.....maybe you should file a suit to legally identify yourself as an LRM launcher in MWO.

[Vxheous]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 02 June 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

No it does not... you require LOS and need to be exposed to even threaten it. It is so enjoyable to watch those people who think they are good and bring those Cancer Mechs in Solo get easily pulled down once you remind your teammates that they have absolutely NO DPS once you get in close. I generally feel sorry for the enemy team when they get stuck with too much Cancer (+4 mechs)... it is never even remotely a decent match. Take out the Brawler/Midrange mechs while all the L33T SNYPER!!!!11!!!1 are hiding in the back & retreating, then just pull them down so they die like the cowards they while running away. I mean... I do not understand why people can not even pretend to be brave while in a video game... standing and delivering like a man would not result in your actual death in real life, but they all die running like beaten dogs. Truly Pathetic

So clearly, the Night Gyr isnt the best heavy mech in the game, and in fact, it's the worst heavy in the game so PGI should buff it

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 02 June 2017 - 11:22 AM.

[Jiang Wei]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 02 June 2017 - 11:11 AM, said:

Actually the teams win by taking Superior positions on the map (or the enemy is terrible enough to take Inferior positions on purpose), so AGAIN when +500 damage of their +800 damage total is done after the Match HAS ALREADY BEEN WON because CGL (Combat Group Loss) has already set in... that is the very definition of Being Carried. I would say that on average at least 60% of the time Matches are played are in the macro sense wasted time, once Chess players see the end then they tip their King, here we are required to go through all the moves until it over but it is still essentially wasted time since the end game has already been laid out. I understand that you have no real understanding of the game I am actually talking about since you think that cGauss/cERPPC is good in Solo, it means you have no real experience with Battletech and the experience that MWO has given you is a gross caricature of that. Solo plays a lot more like an actual Battletech game unlike Group/Comp which bears absolutely zero resemblance to it... so I will not correct you about the perverse version of Battletech you play & you do not try to talk things that you do not understand in the slightest.

You havent won the match until all the enemies are dead. Sorry. You may not like it, but their contribution still counts. Why dont you try driving a long range assault to see what its like?

Edited by Jiang Wei, 02 June 2017 - 11:24 AM.

[Tesunie]

In response to the OP.

Why don't we have people present their mech builds and stats. Take screenshots of your stats and provide a link to the build you've used. Try to include data for mechs that have at least 100 matches (or more) in them. If possible, also provide tier level of the player as well as typical play habits. (Play habits: Such as typical game type (Group or QP).)



I really would like to know more hard data about people's general performance for all weapons, including LRMs, boated builds or mixed builds. If you have a known chassis that has fluctuated greatly in it's build, exclude it from the results. (Such as my Huntsmen Prime, which includes stats from the Prime, the Prime(S) and each has gone through 2-3 different builds each. This mech would become excluded from the stats presented.)

I know that, statistically, I seem to have better overall results from my mixed LRM builds than many (but not all) of my other long term builds. I know this is different for other people and that people tend to use LRMs vastly different from me.

If other people are interested in doing this, I will happily present what data I have for myself.

[Tesunie]

Wolfwood592, on 02 June 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

this post lost me at........racism.

You can make a point without trying to bring more attention to it in this manner. And if YOU feel like someone is being racist towards your use of LRMs in a digital game.....maybe you should file a suit to legally identify yourself as an LRM launcher in MWO.

I believe the correct term he was going for was "bigotry". Otherwise also known as harassment, strong distaste, hatred, etc.

Honestly, I've been getting rather tired of the needless anger towards fellow players simply due to what weapons they bring in. Then again, I've also seen how a lot of other people use LRMs, and I will comment that I've been less than impressed. There are ways to use LRMs very effectively, however most people don't. Even "comp" players when they use LRMs tend to use them ineffectively and fall for the same pitfall trap tendencies (though with more situational awareness than others typically) as most other people do.

When someone says "LRMs", I always hear the same sob story. "Sit in back." "Indirect fire." and "Boating." Just to name a few. LRMs can be used in so many ways, it's kinda sad that almost everyone does the same thing, which is a rather ineffective means to use them...

[Tesunie]

Jiang Wei, on 02 June 2017 - 11:22 AM, said:

You havent won the match until all the enemies are dead.

Actually... you can win many matches without killing the entire enemy team. It depends upon the game mode. Often times the best/easiest path to victory is by destroying all opponents, but sometimes you can out cap their base/resources, destroy their base, etc. Destroying all enemies actually doesn't always mean victory either, as a team that has been completely wiped out very well could still win in a game mode such as Conquest via resource gathering, or even Incursion by dealing more damage to the enemy base and having time run out.

[Jiang Wei]

Tesunie, on 02 June 2017 - 11:39 AM, said:

Actually... you can win many matches without killing the entire enemy team. It depends upon the game mode. Often times the best/easiest path to victory is by destroying all opponents, but sometimes you can out cap their base/resources, destroy their base, etc. Destroying all enemies actually doesn't always mean victory either, as a team that has been completely wiped out very well could still win in a game mode such as Conquest via resource gathering, or even Incursion by dealing more damage to the enemy base and having time run out.

Well then it wouldnt matter would it. The complaint is then even more invalid.

Edited by Jiang Wei, 02 June 2017 - 01:11 PM.

[Deathlike]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 02 June 2017 - 11:21 AM, said:

So clearly, the Night Gyr isnt the best heavy mech in the game, and in fact, it's the worst heavy in the game so PGI should buff it

Don't use Gyrok logic. Someone would take it srsly.

Edited by Deathlike, 02 June 2017 - 01:32 PM.

[Admiral-Dan]

VanillaG, on 02 June 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

Simply put if your goal is to make LRMs viable in comp play you need to use and face them in comp play.

And why should anybody want them to be viable in comp play?

VanillaG, on 02 June 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

Facing them in PUG play is not a good indication of how to balance them in the same way that PUG play does not translate into comp play.

As you say PUG play does not translate into comp play. So if you buff them to be viable in comp play they get totally OP for PUG Play. The Problem here is that good players know how to counter LRMs and bad players just get killed by them.

[sycocys]

Wolfwood592, on 02 June 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

this post lost me at........racism.

You can make a point without trying to bring more attention to it in this manner. And if YOU feel like someone is being racist towards your use of LRMs in a digital game.....maybe you should file a suit to legally identify yourself as an LRM launcher in MWO.

Please don't put ideas like that into the heads of snowflakes.

[LMP]

AlphaEtOmega, on 02 June 2017 - 02:08 PM, said:

And why should anybody want them to be viable in comp play?

As you say PUG play does not translate into comp play. So if you buff them to be viable in comp play they get totally OP for PUG Play. The Problem here is that good players know how to counter LRMs and bad players just get killed by them.

How do good players counter LRMs?

[Admiral-Dan]

LMP, on 02 June 2017 - 02:30 PM, said:

How do good players counter LRMs?

Shoot down enemy UAVs, break line of sight, get in cover …

[Jiang Wei]

I know how good players make LRM's useful

[zortesh]

LMP, on 02 June 2017 - 02:30 PM, said:

How do good players counter LRMs?

Cover... Or just a mass charge by the whole team and murder them with ease.

Sitting back and letting yourselves die one by one is generally how i see teams lose to lrms.

[Vxheous]

AlphaEtOmega, on 02 June 2017 - 02:41 PM, said:

Shoot down enemy UAVs, break line of sight, get in cover …

I'll add to your list: kill anything that's spotting for them, kill the lrm boat that has to come out to get own locks. Trade effectively when breaking cover and getting back into cover before LRM travel time gets to you.

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 02 June 2017 - 02:48 PM.

[LMP]

AlphaEtOmega, on 02 June 2017 - 02:41 PM, said:

Shoot down enemy UAVs, break line of sight, get in cover …

Well, I already knew all that. I was hoping you had some kind of secret trick only the good players knew.

[Mightyrant]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 02 June 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

No it does not... you require LOS and need to be exposed to even threaten it. It is so enjoyable to watch those people who think they are good and bring those Cancer Mechs in Solo get easily pulled down once you remind your teammates that they have absolutely NO DPS once you get in close. I generally feel sorry for the enemy team when they get stuck with too much Cancer (+4 mechs)... it is never even remotely a decent match. Take out the Brawler/Midrange mechs while all the L33T SNYPER!!!!11!!!1 are hiding in the back & retreating, then just pull them down so they die like the cowards they while running away. I mean... I do not understand why people can not even pretend to be brave while in a video game... standing and delivering like a man would not result in your actual death in real life, but they all die running like beaten dogs. Truly Pathetic

Good god man. How do you think like this!? I don't understand where you think that makes sense. First of all, there has always been a difference between mechwarrior and battletech. Mechwarrior has always been a video game where pilots could customize mechs and play their own style. Battletech has always been a role playing experience above all else. I see where you were trying to come from, but even in the books and lore, pilots frequently edited their mechs to make them better fit the battlefield roles that were needed. Ok, we are done with that subject.

Next up: Night Gyr and other gauss/PPC mechs hanging back and not pushing? What? When does that happen? When there is a push going on, the gauss/PPC pilots are usually at mid range, taking hits, pinpointing their damage, calling targets, and dealing way more meaningful damage then most other mechs. Not only that, but they carry. Hard.

All of the gauss/PPC pilots I know like to stand on the front line. In fact, Vx you can attest to this, they do so much front line heavy lifting that when I get caught 50m behind them, I get diddly squat for damage because they get there first. Even when a brawl happens and the enemy is right up in there, the gauss/PPC mechs driven by competent pilots are still scary. I would love to see you try and run up on any of them. Please, I want to watch it.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Mightyrant Kell, on 02 June 2017 - 03:34 PM, said:

Good god man. How do you think like this!? I don't understand where you think that makes sense. First of all, there has always been a difference between mechwarrior and battletech. Mechwarrior has always been a video game where pilots could customize mechs and play their own style. Battletech has always been a role playing experience above all else. I see where you were trying to come from, but even in the books and lore, pilots frequently edited their mechs to make them better fit the battlefield roles that were needed. Ok, we are done with that subject.

Next up: Night Gyr and other gauss/PPC mechs hanging back and not pushing? What? When does that happen? When there is a push going on, the gauss/PPC pilots are usually at mid range, taking hits, pinpointing their damage, calling targets, and dealing way more meaningful damage then most other mechs. Not only that, but they carry. Hard.

All of the gauss/PPC pilots I know like to stand on the front line. In fact, Vx you can attest to this, they do so much front line heavy lifting that when I get caught 50m behind them, I get diddly squat for damage because they get there first. Even when a brawl happens and the enemy is right up in there, the gauss/PPC mechs driven by competent pilots are still scary. I would love to see you try and run up on any of them. Please, I want to watch it.

In your Group play that could happen... I am not talking about that though am I? I am talking about Solo queue where they are always hiding in the back being more irrelevant than the worst potato LRMer who at least is occasionally pining a mech in place. I run up on them every single day and rage against the Cancer that gets stuck on my team. You can not charge a whole Group of Cancer mechs since that is way too much concentrated PPFLD at distance which is what dictates the gross caricature that Group/Comp has become... but since that is not how the team is built and coordinated in High Trust relationships in Solo Queue then it is also not applicable.