33 replies to this topic

[Ruar]

I picked up a new mech and I'm trying to use the ST. I decide to pick up the laser duration nodes since lasers are the primary weapon on this mech. As I'm swapping out different size lasers and trying to figure out what's a good combination for the mech I found something that I really don't like about the ST.

After playing the mech some I realize I don't need laser duration. It's just not providing enough of a benefit without additional quirks to boost that skill. However, if I deselect those nodes then I lose the SP I spent on them. Right now I'm still trying to hit my first 91 SP in this mech so if I drop those skills I can't just pick something else up. I have to wait until I save up enough to replace those lost points.

This is very frustrating when trying to figure out what works in a new mech. I know some people will say "use GXP" and I did that at the start, but the rate of GXP coming in compared to the rate it goes out for a new mech is no where close to even. So I am saving the GXP for a time when I feel I need to skill a mech now without grinding through the nodes.

I know this problem was pointed out in test and I'm surprised nothing has been done about it. There is no way to test the skill tree out. You make your selection and if you don't like it then oh well, keep grinding away. It's just not fun given the sheer volume of nodes and just how easy it is to pick up a few nodes that turn out to be worthless to you.

I really wish there was a way to test different builds and skills. I'd prefer a refund but I assume at this point there is no way they would just refund SP if you deselect that node. Regardless, this is definitely a significant down side to the skill tree. I imagine it's even more frustrating for new players.

[Andi Nagasia]

correct you lose the SP, however if you want to buy it back is only costs 400xp, no SP at all,

[Ruar]

Andi Nagasia, on 03 June 2017 - 03:09 PM, said:

correct you lose the SP, however if you want to buy it back is only costs 400xp, no SP at all,

I don't want to buy back that node, I want to use those 10 SP on different nodes.

The current system basically punishes you for experimenting with different builds by making you grind new SP for any changes you want to make. It's sad when they design a new system that makes players feel bad for using that system.

[vandalhooch]

In other words, you don't like the fact that the currency sinks in this game work like currency sinks.

[Ruar]

vandalhooch, on 03 June 2017 - 04:06 PM, said:

In other words, you don't like the fact that the currency sinks in this game work like currency sinks.

It's not the currency part, it's the exp part. Unless you consider that a form of currency, which I do not.

[vandalhooch]

Ruar, on 03 June 2017 - 04:08 PM, said:

It's not the currency part, it's the exp part. Unless you consider that a form of currency, which I do not.

If it can be spent in game to purchase an ability or equipment, it's a currency. Doesn't matter what you "consider" it to be.

[BumbleBee]

You do realise that to cover the cost of 10SP you would only have to play ~8 games to make the XP back, and ~5 games to cover the C-Bills. That's not including the daily 2 x XP bonus either

Edited by BumbleBee, 03 June 2017 - 04:39 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

You don't actually lose the SP when you deselect a node.

SP merely unlocks the node to be used. It also activates it the first time through. The second time around, you are paying to re-activate the node. Notice that you have separate counters for SP and active nodes. The active node limit is 91, but the SP limit is the total number of nodes in the tree.

[Scyther]

A 'test mode' where you enter the Academy, and any skills you assign in while in the Academy aren't permanent would be nice. You could assign some, test them against the AI mechs, try some others, etc, leave Academy, all points revert to what you entered with.

Unfortunately that would require some careful coding so I wouldn't expect it any time soon. In the meantime, 2 matches typically gets enough Exp and C-bills to buy back at least 3 SP, so it's not a total killer to shift 10 or so nodes around.

[Tarl Cabot]

Ruar, on 03 June 2017 - 04:08 PM, said:

It's not the currency part, it's the exp part. Unless you consider that a form of currency, which I do not.

But it is currency that has been converted from other versions. To generate more SP (Skill Points) then 800 HXP/XP/GXP+ 45000 CBILLS has to be converted for each SP. And a player earns both XP and GXP per match. HXP is Historic XP that had been earned under the original Skill Tree.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 03 June 2017 - 05:13 PM.

[HGAK47]

BumbleBee, on 03 June 2017 - 04:37 PM, said:

You do realise that to cover the cost of 10SP you would only have to play ~8 games to make the XP back, and ~5 games to cover the C-Bills. That's not including the daily 2 x XP bonus either

So now its 8 games or more you are forced to play before you can begin to experiment? (Its a lot lot more if you want the same freedoms as before).

Dont get me wrong im not a skill tree hater or anything but one of the draws of this game has always been experimentation in the mech lab and seeing what you can come up with. Its vastly more time consuming now to experiment. You get a new mech say, run a build, have some matches and put some SP into the mech. If you then decide you want to change around some stuff, better hope your skill points will be viable for the new build.

Edited by HGAK47, 03 June 2017 - 07:19 PM.

[BumbleBee]

8 games for 10SP, you can get enough for 1 or 2 SP per match

And I'd recommend starting with the mobility tree. Once the Mech has the "right feel", then look at the other trees to compliment your role/loadout

Edited by BumbleBee, 03 June 2017 - 07:35 PM.

[Davegt27]

Quote

In other words, you don't like the fact that the currency sinks in this game work like currency sinks.

not exactly I am against the sucker punch I knew that was coming
that is none of your load outs will work for long you will have to change them to keep up

one day things will be great the next it will be like crap
also I spent 2 years grinding to get all those modules like 30 to 60hrs a week and now puff they are gone

guess what the first thing I do now
I spend the SPs to get the 5 nodes for Radar Dep 1
yep I used to have over 60 of those suckers

all I can say is we will soon get used to things but still what a slap in the face

don't forget guys don't go hog wild on the ST save up for the new weapons

GLHF

[Angel of Annihilation]

Ruar, on 03 June 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

I don't want to buy back that node, I want to use those 10 SP on different nodes.

The current system basically punishes you for experimenting with different builds by making you grind new SP for any changes you want to make. It's sad when they design a new system that makes players feel bad for using that system.

Yep and this has been pointed out before. I also feel your pain. Now that I know more about the system, I have several mechs I would like to change up their skill build on but when I consider the cost to do so, I can't justify it. Hell I can't justify the cost to skill up many of my mechs the first time around let alone think about re-skilling mechs I already have 91 points on. I literally have about 500 SP worth of XP on mechs just waiting for the C-bills necessary to skill them up. That is 22.5 million C-bills worth of SP.

Honestly I guess it wouldn't be so bad if we didn't have the new tech dropping in our laps in about 6 weeks. As is I have 54 IS mechs to outfit with new tech, and also probably 10-15 of my 63 Clan mechs that will need some new tech as well. The cost to upgrade all my IS MLs to IS ER ML alone will probably be 20 million and I foresee the need for probably at least a dozen LFEs, not to mention light PPCs, Snub PPC, Heavy PPCs, Heavy Gauss, Light Gauss, probably tons of MRMs, etc, etc. I am trying to have 100 million saved just for this alone.

So yeah it does kind of suck to have to keep buying and buying and buying every time you want to experiment or try something new.

The good news is after you unlock all 237 nodes per mech, you will never have to spend C-bills on SP for that mech again.

[Ruar]

BumbleBee, on 03 June 2017 - 07:32 PM, said:

8 games for 10SP, you can get enough for 1 or 2 SP per match

And I'd recommend starting with the mobility tree. Once the Mech has the "right feel", then look at the other trees to compliment your role/loadout

I'm not that good as I average about 1200 EXP per match in my Quickdraw. So two matches for 1 SP. However, I tried adding SP as soon as I could afford a point and I hated it. Now I wait till I get 5000 EXP saved up before I add the points.

The point of my post though is there is no room for experimenting while you are trying to level up the ST. You have to pick right the first time or you are doing it over again. Even if the mobility tree is a good place to start it doesn't solve the problem of trying out armor and realizing it doesn't help much, or picking up laser duration only to realize you prefer MPL instead of LL and there is no point in a duration buff.

I'm not saying change the ST, I'm saying there needs to be a way to try it out without having to commit the points. This is a result of having 200 nodes with tiny fractions of change which makes guessing which nodes have the most effect for a given mech difficult. If they'd just built a simpler tree that was linear then I can't see having this problem. However I have no faith they are going to fix the horrible tree design but maybe, just maybe, they'll put in a way to try out the ST before you commit points.

Imagine how a new person feels trying to wade through the ST, figure out what the weapons do, figure out where to move, and figure out how to customize the mech loadout. Even EVE online has a better NPE and it's probably one of the hardest games out there.

[Scyther]

At 1,200 Exp avg per match you are earning 1.5 SP worth of Exp. 2 matches = 3 SP. You should also be earning the 135,000 C-bills needed for 3 SP in 2 matches, with some left over to spare.

[Kaeb Odellas]

MadBadger, on 03 June 2017 - 05:05 PM, said:

A 'test mode' where you enter the Academy, and any skills you assign in while in the Academy aren't permanent would be nice. You could assign some, test them against the AI mechs, try some others, etc, leave Academy, all points revert to what you entered with.

Unfortunately that would require some careful coding so I wouldn't expect it any time soon. In the meantime, 2 matches typically gets enough Exp and C-bills to buy back at least 3 SP, so it's not a total killer to shift 10 or so nodes around.

Put a "Simulate" button on the mech lab next to the "apply changes" button that brings up the Testing Grounds menu. It then loads you into the chosen map with your loadout and skills so that you can try them out before committing.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 04 June 2017 - 06:28 AM.

[Burke IV]

Dont forget that every time PGI patches the game you might well have to remake your tree. Just incase people arnt spending enough they can actually enforce a change. Its the kind of weak scam bs you find in alot of the less reputable "free to play" games, the only real problem with it is that many people bought mech packs that clearly didnt have this bs attached at the time of sale. PGI didnt really have the right to inflict this on everybody. Then again i dont think PGI cater to everybody, they listen to a small group. The rest of the paying customers are only there to finance this game for that small group.

[Mystere]

vandalhooch, on 03 June 2017 - 04:06 PM, said:

In other words, you don't like the fact that the currency sinks in this game work like currency sinks.

And would he be really wrong if he did not?

I sure hope you don't complain about the costs when PGI decides to "rebalance" every patch and your favorites are always affected.

Edited by Mystere, 04 June 2017 - 08:13 AM.

[Nameless King]

BumbleBee, on 03 June 2017 - 04:37 PM, said:

You do realise that to cover the cost of 10SP you would only have to play ~8 games to make the XP back, and ~5 games to cover the C-Bills. That's not including the daily 2 x XP bonus either

Ha thats funny 8 good games you mean, some I hear have a hard time with that.