130 replies to this topic

[meteorol]

Going to be the strongest Clan laservomit assault, after PGI deals with the MAD-IIC the way they love dealing with things. Which means probably nerfing it out of existence.

Edit: i forgot PGIs laser rebalance. Since laservomit is pretty good now, they will probably nerf it out of existence, because that's how PGI rolls. Honestly, i wouldn't really buy a laser heavy mech before PGI did their laser rebalance. They have a long history of heavy handed nerfs to weapon classes that drastically changed their viability.

Edited by meteorol, 07 June 2017 - 07:55 AM.

[MischiefSC]

El Bandito, on 06 June 2017 - 04:42 AM, said:

The one with CERLL range quirk can have one of the longest laser range sniper build. I'd at least give it a try in CW. Boiler has ballistics for decent PPFLD build, but MCII will most likely surpass it.

The Super Nova is in the odd place of being a passable build for single heatsinks. 6 erlls and like 30 some single heatsinks. Because of limited slots you can get more than 2x the DHS in SHS and they increase heat CAP not just dissipation. Result is a heat cap of about 100 pts skilled up (as opposed to about 66 in a BLR 2C for example) which gives you room and heat for 3 full 2x2x2. It can even do 2.5 sets of 3x3.

Just only useful on super long range maps where Clan Lightsabers are useful. 67 damage over 2.2 seconds isn't bad though at the range it can do it at. It's also reasonably Tanky.

However the mounts are painfully low and being 90 tons it's got Hover Jets.

Boiler with 2 Gauss m, 2lpl and a cerml is better.

It's at best mediocre. You can do the shs thing with 2 LPLs and 6 cermls but the poor mobility and low mounts limits the reasons to take it vs the MAD IIC.

[Luminis]

I just got the SNV-C.

It's a little bit on the stupid side of things with 2x LPL and 6x MPL. Only had room for a single Jumpjet and the TC1, but I quite like it. It's a bit slower and clunkier than the MAD-IIC, but dang, that thing can obliterate anything that crosses its path. Got basically all the Heat Generation nodes from the Firepower tree (and the Laser Duration, obviously), went MechOps for some Cool Run / Heat Capacity and run 2x Cool Shot. Only spend a few points on Surival and Mobility.

Clunky, yes, but two alphas - or three with a CS - is enough damage to plough through damn near anything.

[Spheroid]

@Mischeif: Have you done the full SHS vs. DHS analysis? With so much heat disapation the DHS build claws a lot back before reaching the redline.

I guess the build considerations are a 300STD + 30 DHS or 325XL + 32 DHS vs. a 300XL + 40+ SHS.

[MischiefSC]

Spheroid, on 07 June 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

@Mischeif: Have you done the full SHS vs. DHS analysis? With so much heat disapation the DHS build claws a lot back before reaching the redline.

I guess the build considerations are a 300STD + 30 DHS or 325XL + 32 DHS vs. a 300XL + 40+ SHS.

I have. It's a narrow range where it's useful - big mechs with small-ish engines and small-ish weapons. The biggest factor is the heat cap and it's total shots per cooling cycle. Any long range trade mech functionally works by trading to the redline then cooling. Having 30% more range on your heat bar gives you more shots before you cool. You'll spend about an extra 1.3 seconds cooling but you'll then have more total shots again.

Especially in a target rich environment like FW it works out. The greater durability also helps as it's staying longer in view.

In trading it also helps because if you're trading 1 to 1 with someone they'll have to fade first due to heatcap so you can be waiting and start your burn earlier.

It's still just "okay" because cerlls are bad but if the laser rebalance helps them at all it'll be significant for the Snova.

[Summon3r]

El Bandito, on 06 June 2017 - 04:42 AM, said:

The one with CERLL range quirk can have one of the longest laser range sniper build. I'd at least give it a try in CW. Boiler has ballistics for decent PPFLD build, but MCII will most likely surpass it.

um i only see ER Laser duration -5%?

[Mole]

I bought a SNV-1 yesterday. I loaded it up with the largest XL engine it can carry, 6 CERLLs, 2 MPLs, AMS, 3 JJs, and as many heat sinks as I could, then skilled it to full cool run, heat containment, -heat generation, and -beam duration. It. Kicks. ***. I played 6 games with it last night and ended the night with a 6.50 KDR on that 'mech with 13 kills and 2 deaths. If you fire all three CERLLs in one arm and then fire the second right after it stays decently cool and the beam duration on it is not bad at all, and there's not much that can withstand the blistering damage that gets vomitted out by getting full burns from 6 CERLLs. It plays like a Nova except slower and instead of boating 12 CERSLs you're boating 6 CERLLs. One-two punch from either arm in both of those 'mechs.

Edited by Mole, 07 June 2017 - 12:40 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I think alot of people are underestimating this mech or at least some of the variants. I am running a SNV-C with 4 LPLs in the High mounts on the Shoulders and 4 ER SL is the arms which I use primarily as anti-light mech weapons and I got to say it blow the Marauder IIC out of the water in terms of raw firepower and too a degree in durability since I run a Standard Engine. It is slow at 54 kph before tweak but that is about the only disadvantage. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have zero issues posting 500-600 damage and I have spent 0 SP so far on it. Once I start investing SP into improving heat management, weapons capability, armor and get speed tweak, it is going to be a real beast. One of the biggest things I noticed about the SNV is unlike the Marauder IIC, it does get its legs shoot out from under it every other match.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Viktor Drake, on 07 June 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:

I think alot of people are underestimating this mech or at least some of the variants. I am running a SNV-C with 4 LPLs in the High mounts on the Shoulders and 4 ER SL is the arms which I use primarily as anti-light mech weapons and I got to say it blow the Marauder IIC out of the water in terms of raw firepower

It doesn't beat the Marauder IIC's raw firepower nor does it even beat the SVN-1's firepower, but it is a far better poker than either.

[Kubernetes]

I don't think it can displace the MAD-IIC because of its slow speed, but it sure is fun to pilot. SNV-C + ERPPCs + hover jets = whoa. You don't need to fly over the battlefield; the torso mounts are high enough that you just barely need to clear the ground in front of you. It's disgusting on the white maps.

SUPERNOVA SNV-C 4 3 1 3.00 14 1 14.00 4,233 8,765

Small sample, but dat damage, lol.

Edited by Kubernetes, 07 June 2017 - 01:54 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Viktor Drake, on 07 June 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:

I think alot of people are underestimating this mech or at least some of the variants. I am running a SNV-C with 4 LPLs in the High mounts on the Shoulders and 4 ER SL is the arms which I use primarily as anti-light mech weapons and I got to say it blow the Marauder IIC out of the water in terms of raw firepower and too a degree in durability since I run a Standard Engine. It is slow at 54 kph before tweak but that is about the only disadvantage. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have zero issues posting 500-600 damage and I have spent 0 SP so far on it. Once I start investing SP into improving heat management, weapons capability, armor and get speed tweak, it is going to be a real beast. One of the biggest things I noticed about the SNV is unlike the Marauder IIC, it does get its legs shoot out from under it every other match.

I had a match in FW on Alpine with the SNV1 with over 2800 damage just in that mech. It's a niche mech and on a big map with open spaces and a high position it's just killer. However it's slow and clumsy and knuckle dragging for most its firepower. It really struggles in QP where speed is so critical.

It's got a few niches though. However tbe MAD IIC is more mobile with better mounts and overall better for 5 tons less.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

MischiefSC, on 07 June 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

I had a match in FW on Alpine with the SNV1 with over 2800 damage just in that mech.

I mean there isn't a whole lot stopping people from doing something similar with the MAD-IIC (not really trying to aim this at you, I just see a lot of these statements in this thread). A 5% duration quirk is the only difference after the skill tree, and imo that isn't enough to make it better.

[MischiefSC]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 07 June 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

I mean there isn't a whole lot stopping people from doing something similar with the MAD-IIC (not really trying to aim this at you, I just see a lot of these statements in this thread). A 5% duration quirk is the only difference after the skill tree, and imo that isn't enough to make it better.

5 tons, smaller engine = more tonnage available and JJs.

Honestly? The biggest reason is that there's just not going to be a point where I put a 325 in a MAD IIC. I'd choke and revert the mech lab.

Not even sure, do any MAD IICs have JJs? I only ever Scorch and IIC LPL/cerml. They're useful. There's some buildings you can get on in Polar that help with the knuckle mounts.

Mostly though it's because I won't put an engine that small in a MAD.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

MischiefSC, on 07 June 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:

5 tons, smaller engine = more tonnage available and JJs.

Smaller engine can be done by the MAD-IIC and the more free tonnage is completely eaten up by mounting the worthless JJs. Actually, if the MAD-IIC-C had 1 more energy hardpoint, it would be MORE efficient when adding JJs because it has 1 ton JJs.

MischiefSC, on 07 June 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:

Mostly though it's because I won't put an engine that small in a MAD.

Which is my point, not that there aren't MAD-IIC builds that run small engines (2 Gauss/2 ERPPC MAD-IIC-C runs a STD 270). It isn't that it can't do it, just that most people try and fit the Supernova into that role instead since it doesn't do much else interesting.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 07 June 2017 - 02:30 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 07 June 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

It doesn't beat the Marauder IIC's raw firepower nor does it even beat the SVN-1's firepower, but it is a far better poker than either.

I have a Marauder IIC and it sure fells like it beats it in Firepower. Then again I run a rather large engine in my Marauder IIC so don't have the sheer tonnage for firepower than I do with the SNV-C Also not sure why the SNV-1 would have more firepower than the SNV-C a they both have 8 energy hardpoints. SNV-1 is more agile and has all its weapons in the low slung arms but the SNV-C has 4 very high energy mounts in the shoulder. Other than that and the piddling 5% duration bonus, I don't see much difference, especially in terms of firepower.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Viktor Drake, on 07 June 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

I have a Marauder IIC and it sure fells like it beats it in Firepower. Then again I run a rather large engine in my Marauder IIC so don't have the sheer tonnage for firepower than I do with the SNV-C

Then chances are you are playing the Marauder IIC wrong. An alpha of 4 cLPL is equal to 52 damage (anti-light weapons don't really count given their effective range), an alpha from a Marauder IIC depending on the build can range from 68-72 (2 LPL, 6 ERML or 9 MPL). Even the 2 Gauss/2 ERPPC build out does the alpha of 4 cLPL. The advantage of the C is being able to poke better than the MAD-IIC and potentially have better DPS (have to do the math).

Viktor Drake, on 07 June 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

SNV-1 is more agile and has all its weapons in the low slung arms but the SNV-C has 4 very high energy mounts in the shoulder.

Having a few high mounts isn't really beneficial if most of your firepower isn't high mounted. People acted like the 2 high mounted Gauss on the KDK-3 somehow made it better than it was when you had to expose more of your mech to be using the 2 ERPPCs (which is why you didn't need the MGs to bump the Gauss up). So basically in the end, the SVN-1 gets bonus structure and a minor duration quirk that help it make it better than the C imo. Plus all arm weapons is nice on a mech that rarely loses its arms, for similar reason the Prime arms on the Whale were great. In the end, no it doesn't have better firepower, but it is better built for those types of builds.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 07 June 2017 - 03:01 PM.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

MischiefSC, on 07 June 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:

5 tons, smaller engine = more tonnage available and JJs.

Honestly? The biggest reason is that there's just not going to be a point where I put a 325 in a MAD IIC. I'd choke and revert the mech lab.

Not even sure, do any MAD IICs have JJs? I only ever Scorch and IIC LPL/cerml. They're useful. There's some buildings you can get on in Polar that help with the knuckle mounts.

Mostly though it's because I won't put an engine that small in a MAD.

Supernova runs out of crit slots long before it runs out of tonnage.

[MischiefSC]

Aggravated Assault Mech, on 07 June 2017 - 03:31 PM, said:

Supernova runs out of crit slots long before it runs out of tonnage.

Hence the STD heatsinks. You can get 37-41 in there.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 07 June 2017 - 03:01 PM, said:

Then chances are you are playing the Marauder IIC wrong. An alpha of 4 cLPL is equal to 52 damage (anti-light weapons don't really count given their effective range), an alpha from a Marauder IIC depending on the build can range from 68-72 (2 LPL, 6 ERML or 9 MPL). Even the 2 Gauss/2 ERPPC build out does the alpha of 4 cLPL. The advantage of the C is being able to poke better than the MAD-IIC and potentially have better DPS (have to do the math).

I just know that SNV feels more powerful at least in some of its builds. Also alpha isn't everything and I tend to care more about sustainable firepower so maybe that is it for me but I will conceed that I am just basing things on my gut feeling, not on hard data so you might be right. Oh and I run my Marauder IIC with 3 x LpL and 4 x ER ML, 27 DHS, 375 XL engine and it does produce a 67 point Alpha so I don't think I am too far wrong with my build.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 07 June 2017 - 03:01 PM, said:

Having a few high mounts isn't really beneficial if most of your firepower isn't high mounted. People acted like the 2 high mounted Gauss on the KDK-3 somehow made it better than it was when you had to expose more of your mech to be using the 2 ERPPCs (which is why you didn't need the MGs to bump the Gauss up). So basically in the end, the SVN-1 gets bonus structure and a minor duration quirk that help it make it better than the C imo. Plus all arm weapons is nice on a mech that rarely loses its arms, for similar reason the Prime arms on the Whale were great. In the end, no it doesn't have better firepower, but it is better built for those types of builds.

But most of my Firepower is High Mounted. I run Quad LPLs in those high mounts and smaller weapons in the arms. The problem I have with the arms on the Supernova is they are so low slung that you find yourself always firing into the dirt when you try to fire over anything. However I guess the perspective would change pretty drastically depending on if you had more of a "Peeker" style of play verses a "Hill Humper" style of play. Since I hill hump more, I find the high mounts to be more beneficial but that is me.

[Kubernetes]

Four energy mounts are plenty considering that you want them for ranged pokes. And man are they nice. They're not too far out so the convergence is quite good.