130 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

38 Heat sinks, 6x ERLL?

Single Heat-Sinks OP, please nerf.

[Baron Zen]

I use the SNV-A as lrm boat, there aren't a lot clan mechs which can pack 4x lrm15 or 20 (for less ammo and backup weapons) with 4 med pulse laser, it can run a little hot but nothing quirks can't take care of, also max engine 58 kph and high missile mounts help to not break the cover; other variant i like is the SNV-C for the reasons other ppl listed in this thread (high mounts+4large pulse lasers+4med pulse).

[Vellron2005]

Ted Wayz, on 06 June 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

Impress your team with the SNV-A with LRM80 w/Artemis and 4 small lasers. The thing prints c-bills.

Vellron2005, on 07 June 2017 - 02:44 AM, said:

I'm seriously considering that build

Although, I might slim it down to 4 x LRM15+A, and 4 medium lasers, or SPL's..

Aaaaaaan there.. I went ahead and did it..

2 x LRM20+A + 2 LRM15+A, + 4 SPL, with 10,5 tons of ammo and skilled up for survival, LRM usage, range, with some mobility, sensors and aux added...

Dropped 6 matches with it last night.. average damage was 500+ with a minimum of 1 kill / match.

The UBER LRM BOAT is back baby!

Had two prety sweet things happen with it..

1) Frozen city - A spider tries to flank me and take me out, I shoot it with my SPL's, and it turns around for another run.. I back up just slightly, and pump it full of LRM under 180m range, and kill it. Finished with 3 KIlls and 3 KMDD's total..

2) Canyon Network - got smart and a bit lucky, but still sweet.. I'm on a ridge, and a Mauler comes over to "rush the lurm boat".. I see him moving towards me, and drop down to the canyon, but am also smart enough to pop a UAV (universal sign for "please help, target is here"), and also pop an Artillery Strike behind a rock where he can't see it, and will be hit by it if he follows me. Naturally he does, and takes the full brunt of my Arty. I proceed to LURM the hell out of him, and spew my SPLs.. He opens up on me, but then the UAV's help signal kicks in, as a teammate distracts him just enough to make him turn his back to me, thinking I won't damage him much since I'm a LRM boat.. 4 SPL's and 70 LRM to the back says otherwise.. Good night Mauler.

I ended that exchange cored yellow, but alive and kicking. Also finished with 3 Kills and 3 KMDD's total..

So yeah.. Thanks Ted Ways, and a special thanks to one of my CWI friends who impressed me and inspired me to make the build after seeing his LRM 80 beast..

P.S.

Another inspiration for the build is a realization I had yesterday: A 3 AMS/ECM Kitfox survive LRM70 does not. (I run Shield FOX now also - because match score)

Edited by Vellron2005, 07 June 2017 - 11:34 PM.

[Baron Zen]

Vellron2005, on 07 June 2017 - 11:14 PM, said:

Aaaaaaan there.. I went ahead and did it..

2 x LRM20+A + 2 LRM15+A, + 4 SPL, with 10,5 tons of ammo and skilled up for survival, LRM usage, range, with some mobility, sensors and aux added...

Dudebi I tried to rebuild a configuration like your but I end with around 5 yon free and 0 slot, 2xlrm 15 artemis +2xlrm 20 artemis + 4small pulse +ams +1jetpack+ 10 ton of ammo and 2 extra double heatsinks, engine xl 325, only way to fill the tonnage for me is to place med pulses even with 4x lrm 20, but it would run too much hot at that point.

Edit: nvm got it you dropped the structure to standard , still i would use 4x lrm 15 for to fit one more heatsink and ams which is a valuable addition in these times.

Edited by Baron Zen, 08 June 2017 - 12:43 AM.

[jjm1]

Seems some people don't see the SNV-1 as a noteworthy mech. It wont lose to a MAD-IIC unless you let yourself get outplayed by playing pokewarrior or lock your arms down like a DWF and discard accuracy. You can get more firepower, but this one has 1.2 heat management with a 64 point alpha.

Now witness the firepower of this fully armed and operational battlemech.


Dumb match really. But looking through my post skill tree 1k matches, they all were mostly lurm boats that just stood there while they got drilled. The joys of QP.

[MischiefSC]

The6thMessenger, on 07 June 2017 - 09:47 PM, said:

38 Heat sinks, 6x ERLL?

Single Heat-Sinks OP, please nerf.

It's got a niche. More total heatsinks means higher heat cap, means more shots before redline. Since quirks work on a % it squeezes out a narrow margin over DHS, trading a slightly longer cooldown period for a larger total bar.

Overall I'd still take a MAD IIC most the time on most maps and matches but Alpine/Boreal/Polar, Defending/Skirmish/Assault, sure.

[Vellron2005]

Baron Zen, on 08 June 2017 - 12:04 AM, said:

Dudebi I tried to rebuild a configuration like your but I end with around 5 yon free and 0 slot, 2xlrm 15 artemis +2xlrm 20 artemis + 4small pulse +ams +1jetpack+ 10 ton of ammo and 2 extra double heatsinks, engine xl 325, only way to fill the tonnage for me is to place med pulses even with 4x lrm 20, but it would run too much hot at that point.

Edit: nvm got it you dropped the structure to standard , still i would use 4x lrm 15 for to fit one more heatsink and ams which is a valuable addition in these times.

I thought about putting 4 x LRM15's, and AMS, but then I figured, with the kind of LRM loads I'm bringing, 1 AMS doesn't do much, and I used the extra tonnage for bigger launchers and ammo.. You wouldn't believe how quickly that build chews up ammo..

I can always out-rain most targets with this build, and If I can't, I'm not positioning properly, and its my own damn fault

Hell I played a 3AMS Kitfox and got downed by a MadDog with 6 x LRM10's.. 3 AMS only slims down 5 missiles per load.. so a LRM 10 becomes LRM -5 (100% neutered).. but LRM70 becomes LRM55, which is still a lot and enough to kill a LURM-Shield..

Also, if you meet me on the opposite side of the battlefield, and use my own build against me, that will be sooo uncool

[The6thMessenger]

MischiefSC, on 08 June 2017 - 03:39 AM, said:

It's got a niche. More total heatsinks means higher heat cap, means more shots before redline. Since quirks work on a % it squeezes out a narrow margin over DHS, trading a slightly longer cooldown period for a larger total bar.

Overall I'd still take a MAD IIC most the time on most maps and matches but Alpine/Boreal/Polar, Defending/Skirmish/Assault, sure.

I was just joking. Anyways i did the same w/o endosteel and FFA, and used DHS ending up with 32 DHS total of the similar weapons. The 38 SHS has 83.60 Heat capacity, and 4.56 heat dissipation. The 32 DHS however has 83.00 heat capacity, which is the same, however the DHS has better dissipation of 5.30.

Realisitically i'd take SNV-1 Laser Vomit - 2xLPL + 6x ERML, 31 DHS though.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 08 June 2017 - 05:09 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Viktor Drake, on 07 June 2017 - 07:39 PM, said:

I just know that SNV feels more powerful at least in some of its builds. Also alpha isn't everything and I tend to care more about sustainable firepower so maybe that is it for me but I will conceed that I am just basing things on my gut feeling, not on hard data so you might be right. Oh and I run my Marauder IIC with 3 x LpL and 4 x ER ML, 27 DHS, 375 XL engine and it does produce a 67 point Alpha so I don't think I am too far wrong with my build.

Alpha is everything for mid range laser vomit to a point (if you can get off 2 consecutive alphas, you're good), and 3 Lol and 4 cERML you can't alpha without ghost heat which is why it isn't used over the standard build.

Quote

But most of my Firepower is High Mounted. I run Quad LPLs in those high mounts and smaller weapons in the arms. The problem I have with the arms on the Supernova is they are so low slung that you find yourself always firing into the dirt when you try to fire over anything. However I guess the perspective would change pretty drastically depending on if you had more of a "Peeker" style of play verses a "Hill Humper" style of play. Since I hill hump more, I find the high mounts to be more beneficial but that is me.

It doesn't matter if most of your firepower is high mounted, if you aren't a mixed build having high mounted weapons don't really matter. For 4 cLPL or 4 cERPPC builds make sense on the C, full laser vomit doesn't.

[Baron Zen]

Vellron2005, on 08 June 2017 - 04:23 AM, said:

I thought about putting 4 x LRM15's, and AMS, but then I figured, with the kind of LRM loads I'm bringing, 1 AMS doesn't do much, and I used the extra tonnage for bigger launchers and ammo.. You wouldn't believe how quickly that build chews up ammo..

I can always out-rain most targets with this build, and If I can't, I'm not positioning properly, and its my own damn fault

Hell I played a 3AMS Kitfox and got downed by a MadDog with 6 x LRM10's.. 3 AMS only slims down 5 missiles per load.. so a LRM 10 becomes LRM -5 (100% neutered).. but LRM70 becomes LRM55, which is still a lot and enough to kill a LURM-Shield..

Also, if you meet me on the opposite side of the battlefield, and use my own build against me, that will be sooo uncool

ahahah sorry i tried to replicate because i wasnt understand the weight and heat management since i got heat issues with my build but thanks to you i realized how to fix it, btw i will just xp the mech to master, i will need it for when I will become mercenary but don't worry in case I will send some homage in battlefield lol.

About the snv 1 it is good for the extended er large laser range but for to fire those with the snv 1 you need full exposure and mechs which rely only on arms in my job aren't tough even with armor and structure quirks,consider that are just a bunch of extra points, heck even an atlas-d with 155 front armor 78 internal resist like 5-10 seconds under intense fire, covers and high mounted weapons are a more reliable "armor" =), also losing an arm would not mean to lose half the fire power.

Edited by Baron Zen, 08 June 2017 - 06:09 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 08 June 2017 - 05:58 AM, said:

Alpha is everything for mid range laser vomit to a point (if you can get off 2 consecutive alphas, you're good), and 3 Lol and 4 cERML you can't alpha without ghost heat which is why it isn't used over the standard build.


It doesn't matter if most of your firepower is high mounted, if you aren't a mixed build having high mounted weapons don't really matter. For 4 cLPL or 4 cERPPC builds make sense on the C, full laser vomit doesn't.

I think that the importance of Alpha is debatable as there are so many other types of viable play such as cycling through groups of weapons to maintain consistent DPS for an extended period of time. I mean yeah sure, there are time when a good solid Alpha Strike is the solution to your problem but not always.

Also last night I couldn't articulate why I felt the Supernova had more firepower than the Marauder IIC due to being super tired but the reason I feel that way is because my Supernova builds tend to favor mounting larger weapons and more of them. For example, as I mention I mount Quad LPLs on my SNV-C plus smaller, supporting weapons in my arms. To compare this to your example of a Marauder IIC with 2 x LPL and 6 x ER ML, my Quad LPLs output approximately the same damage as would the Dual LPLs and 4 of the 6 ER MLs your mounting on the Marauder IIC. However, LPLs are longer ranged which means I can apply a higher level firepower at longer ranges than with the Marauder IIC. Basically this means at 600+ meters, my SNV-C has more firepower available to it while retaining similar Short range firepower at the same time which gives the SNV an overall advantage in Firepower.

[Mumuharra]

Vellron2005, on 07 June 2017 - 11:14 PM, said:

Aaaaaaan there.. I went ahead and did it..

2 x LRM20+A + 2 LRM15+A, + 4 SPL, with 10,5 tons of ammo and skilled up for survival, LRM usage, range, with some mobility, sensors and aux added...

Dropped 6 matches with it last night.. average damage was 500+ with a minimum of 1 kill / match.

The UBER LRM BOAT is back baby!

Had two prety sweet things happen with it..

1) Frozen city - A spider tries to flank me and take me out, I shoot it with my SPL's, and it turns around for another run.. I back up just slightly, and pump it full of LRM under 180m range, and kill it. Finished with 3 KIlls and 3 KMDD's total..

2) Canyon Network - got smart and a bit lucky, but still sweet.. I'm on a ridge, and a Mauler comes over to "rush the lurm boat".. I see him moving towards me, and drop down to the canyon, but am also smart enough to pop a UAV (universal sign for "please help, target is here"), and also pop an Artillery Strike behind a rock where he can't see it, and will be hit by it if he follows me. Naturally he does, and takes the full brunt of my Arty. I proceed to LURM the hell out of him, and spew my SPLs.. He opens up on me, but then the UAV's help signal kicks in, as a teammate distracts him just enough to make him turn his back to me, thinking I won't damage him much since I'm a LRM boat.. 4 SPL's and 70 LRM to the back says otherwise.. Good night Mauler.

I ended that exchange cored yellow, but alive and kicking. Also finished with 3 Kills and 3 KMDD's total..

So yeah.. Thanks Ted Ways, and a special thanks to one of my CWI friends who impressed me and inspired me to make the build after seeing his LRM 80 beast..

P.S.

Another inspiration for the build is a realization I had yesterday: A 3 AMS/ECM Kitfox survive LRM70 does not. (I run Shield FOX now also - because match score)

Hi Velrone,

I followed your advice, bought the SNV-A and had so much fun with 2x LRMA 20, 2 x LRMA 15, 4 x Small laser and max engine.
Had a game with 1.500 damage and 850 match score.
It's really a fun mech and on the right maps it can be a killer.
Hope to meet you in the blue team.

Cheers.

Edited by Mumuharra, 08 June 2017 - 10:25 AM.

[jonfett]

Snazzy Dragon, on 06 June 2017 - 11:56 AM, said:

So, after a few matches in them, UGH. They are awful for solo dropping. Go figure

Yeah, I love assaults, so I thought I would give this one a try, even though the -1 only has the low mounts. I'm a casual mechjockey, so I only play Pugs, and it sucks big fat sweaty ballz for me. I forgot how awful the clan er duration is, and I'm used to doing laser vomit and twisting. So, all I end up doing is either getting left behind and not contributing, or if I even get to fire some shots off, I forget about the duration and end up blasting my teammates when i twist. Sheesh. At this point I'd rather bring any Kodiak...

Edited by jonfett, 08 June 2017 - 11:24 AM.

[Luminis]

I didn't get to play it all that much, but I've been doing fairly well so far.



Granted, I did mess up a drop on Polar tonight. The stats would look better if I didn't blew up without some proper contribution. Eh, whatever.

[r4plez]

The6thMessenger, on 07 June 2017 - 09:47 PM, said:

38 Heat sinks, 6x ERLL?

Single Heat-Sinks OP, please nerf.

You can make it better
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b86eae84fb8787c

[Humpday]

I wonder what the mathematical point is where single heatsinks overtake DHS?
I've always wondered that specifically for IS since you many times you run out of slots before tonnage, and with DHS, you(or at least I); just end up bumping up the engine size.

[Jackal Noble]

El Bandito, on 06 June 2017 - 04:42 AM, said:

The one with CERLL range quirk can have one of the longest laser range sniper build. I'd at least give it a try in CW. Boiler has ballistics for decent PPFLD build, but MCII will most likely surpass it.

It's a duration quirk. Pre skill tree it was 15% on er lasers and was pretty nice for that setting. Post skill tree and it's a whopping 5%. Almost negligible, considering all other mechs can get %10 duration now. So not nearly as viable/attractive as it was before, not even close. Second, even if running only 6 er larges, you are gonna be so stuffed to the gills with DHS you are not going to want to sacrifice that necessary cooling....

[- World Eater -]

I ******* suck at piloting assault mechs but I've been having fun with the C variant.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Viktor Drake, on 08 June 2017 - 07:34 AM, said:

I think that the importance of Alpha is debatable as there are so many other types of viable play such as cycling through groups of weapons to maintain consistent DPS for an extended period of time

There are better weapons than lasers for consistent DPS, specifically weapons that don't have a similar heat profile. Don't get me wrong, DPS does matter, but laser vomit strongly benefits from stopping power that is unmatched by even PPFLD provided you get good burns.

Viktor Drake, on 08 June 2017 - 07:34 AM, said:

For example, as I mention I mount Quad LPLs on my SNV-C plus smaller, supporting weapons in my arms. To compare this to your example of a Marauder IIC with 2 x LPL and 6 x ER ML, my Quad LPLs output approximately the same damage as would the Dual LPLs and 4 of the 6 ER MLs your mounting on the Marauder IIC.

While true, you also have a longer burn duration (unless you are firing through ghost heat, which ruins one of your advantages) for a "similar" alpha, that sort of thing matters when comparing firepower. The quad cLPL is great for sustained long range pokes because it has more DPS but suffers in pushes because it doesn't have the same stopping power the MAD-IIC does, and also the heat will still end up stunting your DPS compared to dakka builds.

Viktor Drake, on 08 June 2017 - 07:34 AM, said:

Basically this means at 600+ meters, my SNV-C has more firepower available to it while retaining similar Short range firepower at the same time which gives the SNV an overall advantage in Firepower.

You simply don't have the same firepower as the MAD-IIC below long range because of burn durations. The longer the range, the more you can getaway with longer burn durations (because projectiles have trouble responding comparatively well), but at short range, unless you are firing through ghost heat (at which point you lose the DPS advantage), the lower DPS of the MAD-IIC is still better because it can apply that damage far better.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 08 June 2017 - 02:40 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 08 June 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:

There are better weapons than lasers for consistent DPS, specifically weapons that don't have a similar heat profile. Don't get me wrong, DPS does matter, but laser vomit strongly benefits from stopping power that is unmatched by even PPFLD provided you get good burns.


While true, you also have a longer burn duration (unless you are firing through ghost heat, which ruins one of your advantages) for a "similar" alpha, that sort of thing matters when comparing firepower. The quad cLPL is great for sustained long range pokes because it has more DPS but suffers in pushes because it doesn't have the same stopping power the MAD-IIC does, and also the heat will still end up stunting your DPS compared to dakka builds.


You simply don't have the same firepower as the MAD-IIC below long range because of burn durations. The longer the range, the more you can getaway with longer burn durations (because projectiles have trouble responding comparatively well), but at short range, unless you are firing through ghost heat (at which point you lose the DPS advantage), the lower DPS of the MAD-IIC is still better because it can apply that damage far better.

Even beyond burn duration the speed is a real factor. I get it's only like 6 KPH but it's actually about a 10% speed difference (or more, depending on your build).

I can't find a good reason to take a SNV over a MAD IIC for anything but ERLL stuff and getting up somewhere high.

That and the 2 Gauss, 2LPL, 1 CERML is a really tanky, very sustainable mid range mech. ~60pt alpha at 500-600m that you can keep laying down and it's much tankier at that range than the MAD IIC. It's just so damn slow.

It's also the only build I normally play (as I don't jump snipe with Gyrs much) that I've found it worth putting a couple points in JJs on.

Mostly though the SNVs are just a slow, low-mount MAD IIC. We'll see what atrocities are committed on the MAD IIC with the next balance pass and if anyone has any reason to use lasers after that. Who knows, maybe the SNV will be a thing.