57 replies to this topic

[Humpday]

The Pug Commander, on 10 June 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

I was in a match yesterday in faction warfare and a large portion of the players where complaining of lag and mechs rubber banding. This Including the guys in my unit on comms. It happened in more than one match as well. So with that said its not on our end with the ISPs. Maybe if one of us was experiencing these issues but not multiple users. i mean 24 people in a match that would be multiple ISPs all having issues. Highly doubt it. Also everyone's ping seemed fine. It was so bad at times it wasn't playable.


With that being said i don't think its PGIs servers

Do you know how BGP peering works? If not then you'll not be able to understand why people with different "ISPs" can all experience the same issues simultaneously. Thats not a knock on you, its network engineering I don't expect you to understand.

While I'm not saying PGI's servers aren't falling over, an explicit statement stating that it the servers are fine, is a strong statement. They have given you one side of the equation, if its not servers side, you must look up stream of the servers.

Its more likely that a large transit provider, both global and/or local has experienced an issue. Major incidents such as those found with Zayo or L3, can disrupt connectivity across the entire northern portion united states(and much more, that is just a scoping example). An instance of such disruptions can occur when route tables are adapting to an AS dropping its BGP sessions with its peer(s). This will result in a update of the route tables and traffic will be shifted/routed/moved elsewhere. If enough traffic suddenly shifts to another AS, you may saturate that peers network(too small of pipeline), overload their cores cpu configuration(unlikely but possible), or several peers ect ect ect.

Anyway...this is wayyyy too technical for a standard end user.

I'll agree with what some people have said however, I'm not so sure it was a good idea to say, "hey, its on your end, figure it out". Typically as a online service provider(software side), you'll want to determine where in the stack the issue is, despite not being an issue with your own servers, your customers are being impacted, so a proper inspection and incident release should be completed...otherwise this happens...witch hunt.

People need something/someone to blame(to make them feel better). Not providing a scapegoat results in mindless conjecture and the blame game.

Edited by Humpday, 10 June 2017 - 09:37 PM.

[QuePan]

According to working with my own ISP they determined that its the node at the server or right outside the server thats the issue and its up to PGI to contact there server farm administrator to look into a NODE issue and start process to get it resolved its localized to that server , seeing i can connect fine to everything else in and around me , and even connect to the MWO EU server with no issues , this falls on PGI and the server farm not us and our ISPs seeing that there product is the only thing that seems to be effected ., to tell us that its a issue for our ISPs is ridiculous so they can wash there hand of it .

[The Pug Commander]

- Pestilence -, on 10 June 2017 - 08:55 PM, said:

It started today, at the beginning of one quick play match i couldn't even get out of starting position, few steps left or right and im back again. Looks like for now i am limited to EU server. Fix this PGI instead of saying that its on our side. That would be some strange coincidence don't you think ?

that is the same thing that was happening to me. yea i honestly don't think its PgIs equipment though.

[Brain Cancer]

Given the broad effect, whatever's failing has to be pretty close to PGI's servers (even if it's not PGI).

Also, this has been going on for days. It would behoove PGI to find out who precisely is dropping the ball packets here.

[The Pug Commander]

Humpday, on 10 June 2017 - 09:28 PM, said:

Do you know how BGP peering works? If not then you'll not be able to understand why people with different "ISPs" can all experience the same issues simultaneously. Thats not a knock on you, its network engineering I don't expect you to understand.

While I'm not saying PGI's servers aren't falling over, an explicit statement stating that it the servers are fine, is a strong statement. They have given you one side of the equation, if its not servers side, you must look up stream of the servers.

Its more likely that a large transit provider, both global and/or local has experienced an issue. Major incidents such as those found with Zayo or L3, can disrupt connectivity across the entire northern portion united states(and much more, that is just a scoping example). An instance of such disruptions can occur when route tables are adapting to an AS dropping its BGP sessions with its peer(s). This will result in a update of the route tables and traffic will be shifted/routed/moved elsewhere. If enough traffic suddenly shifts to another AS, you may saturate that peers network(too small of pipeline), overload their cores cpu configuration(unlikely but possible), or several peers ect ect ect.

Anyway...this is wayyyy too technical for a standard end user.

I'll agree with what some people have said however, I'm not so sure it was a good idea to say, "hey, its on your end, figure it out". Typically as a online service provider(software side), you'll want to determine where in the stack the issue is, despite not being an issue with your own servers, your customers are being impacted, so a proper inspection and incident release should be completed...otherwise this happens...witch hunt.

People need something/someone to blame(to make them feel better). Not providing a scapegoat results in mindless conjecture and the blame game.

Yea that's exactly the point i was making you just explained the technical side of it for me lol i do understand that we can all experience the same thing because of routing between ISPs. I was just pointing out its probably not the ISPs but upstream somewhere. I do understand some network engineering I work in IT.

[InvictusLee]

The Pug Commander, on 10 June 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

I was in a match yesterday in faction warfare and a large portion of the players where complaining of lag and mechs rubber banding. This Including the guys in my unit on comms. It happened in more than one match as well. So with that said its not on our end with the ISPs. Maybe if one of us was experiencing these issues but not multiple users. i mean 24 people in a match that would be multiple ISPs all having issues. Highly doubt it. Also everyone's ping seemed fine. It was so bad at times it wasn't playable.


With that being said i don't think its PGIs servers

PGI has a credibility problem in the same way donald trump isnt a liar.
As in, they have none, and are liars.

[Sid Solis]

I feel like PGI could have handled this better....doing the whole "it's not me, it's you", line feeling like a psycho girlfriend trying to breakup with me.....

we all have strong feelings about the people in charge of this game....hell Russ calling us "cheap skates" speaks volumes in my opinion....kind of wish they'd sell this title to someone that wants to care about this game and do some good.

[Kilo 40]

I went from a ~50ms ping with my old ISP to ~180ms ping with my new one. and that's only in the middle of the week at 3am. weekends are even worse.

I simply can't play MWO until I can get another ISP. and since I live in a small town, that may be a long time.

[Dee Eight]

PGI always blames the problems on others. Its never their fault. Its your own computer, your connection, your ISP, the DNS routing, whatever. Never ever them.

[UnofficialOperator]

[Dee Eight]

QuePan, on 10 June 2017 - 09:43 PM, said:

According to working with my own ISP they determined that its the node at the server or right outside the server thats the issue and its up to PGI to contact there server farm administrator to look into a NODE issue and start process to get it resolved its localized to that server , seeing i can connect fine to everything else in and around me , and even connect to the MWO EU server with no issues , this falls on PGI and the server farm not us and our ISPs seeing that there product is the only thing that seems to be effected ., to tell us that its a issue for our ISPs is ridiculous so they can wash there hand of it .

I can download gigabytes of stuff fine from all over north america and europe at the same time, but this ONE game is the only thing with lag issues, disconnecting and so on.

[meteorol]

QuePan, on 10 June 2017 - 09:43 PM, said:

According to working with my own ISP they determined that its the node at the server or right outside the server thats the issue and its up to PGI to contact there server farm administrator to look into a NODE issue and start process to get it resolved its localized to that server , seeing i can connect fine to everything else in and around me , and even connect to the MWO EU server with no issues , this falls on PGI and the server farm not us and our ISPs seeing that there product is the only thing that seems to be effected ., to tell us that its a issue for our ISPs is ridiculous so they can wash there hand of it .

And you trust your ISP more than you trust PGI, because reasons?

I had 4 different ISPs, and each and every single one of them was quick to lie into my face when there were issues that clearly weren't on my side. Once they even told me the issue was 100% on my wifi (when i was on cable) even though their website was flooded with malfunction messages.

From my experiences in the past, i won't judge PGIs explanation based on the claims of my ISP.

[Kaptain]

Agreed that it must be something very close to PGIs server, if its not the servers themselves. This is the only title I am having problems with.

[UnofficialOperator]

Yeah seems like its just the NA servers. Na lag spikes and lots of discos today for other players today. Oceanic is fine.

[Vellron2005]

I just know one thing..

This whole instability issue was handled badly by PGI.. they basically told us "you must have a bad router, because the game code is perfect, and never crashes"..

Kinda not cool..

[Paigan]

Vellron2005, on 12 June 2017 - 04:00 AM, said:

I just know one thing..

This whole instability issue was handled badly by PGI.. they basically told us "you must have a bad router, because the game code is perfect, and never crashes"..

Kinda not cool..

My god, how can this be so hard to understand?

Imagine PGI was a mall that you want to visit.
You get stuck in traffic on the way and you insult PGI because you are stuck in traffic 100 miles from your actual destination.
PGI answers "our parking deck is perfectly functional, no problems here."

It's not the parking deck's fault that you are stuck in traffic 100 miles away from it.
As much as you want to blame it on PGI, they can't be responsible for traffic problems along the way.
They are NOT saying "your car must be trash" they are NOT saying "the city you live in must suck". All they are saying is, that their parking deck is not the problem.

Edited by Paigan, 12 June 2017 - 04:14 AM.

[Binkus]

Serious rubberbanding on my end yesterday NA servers not encountered it on Euro Servers

I will have to stick to Euro servers

.......Did they build that wall already?

[Kiiyor]

Dee Eight, on 10 June 2017 - 11:56 PM, said:

I can download gigabytes of stuff fine from all over north america and europe at the same time, but this ONE game is the only thing with lag issues, disconnecting and so on.

What does downloading have to do with ping? Are you monitoring your torrents for microstutters or something?

[Gwahlur]

I have had no issues connecting to NA servers from norway, still don't.

Some days ago we were doing a couple 12v12 stock loadout private lobbies (baradul has footage of it on twitch somewhere, maybe I should dig it up as it was hilarious )
A lot of people were experiencing rubberbanding in the second match, including Baradul who's connecting from Germany.
I wasn't experiencing any of it, everything was smooth on my end, still connecting from Norway to NA.

It's pretty obvious to me it's a routing issue.

Edit: Here's the vid I was talking about, first private lobby match is at 1hour 45mins. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/150228155

As you can see, second match, unplayable on his end. Everything was still smooth on my end.

Edited by Gwahlur, 12 June 2017 - 04:57 AM.

[ShoX]

Paigan, on 12 June 2017 - 04:11 AM, said:

My god, how can this be so hard to understand?

Imagine PGI was a mall that you want to visit.
You get stuck in traffic on the way and you insult PGI because you are stuck in traffic 100 miles from your actual destination.
PGI answers "our parking deck is perfectly functional, no problems here."

It's not the parking deck's fault that you are stuck in traffic 100 miles away from it.
As much as you want to blame it on PGI, they can't be responsible for traffic problems along the way.
They are NOT saying "your car must be trash" they are NOT saying "the city you live in must suck". All they are saying is, that their parking deck is not the problem.

All the people who understand networking may need to requote this every 3rd post or so so that it sinks in...