25 replies to this topic

[evilauthor]

So I'm watching this video here, and I see giant long streams of LRMs pummeling mechs to pieces. It's one of the things that people hate about LRMs right?

But I'm thinking, "Wow, with all those long streams of LRMs, shouldn't you be able to follow them right back to their launchers?"

And then it hit me. Because the answer is, yes you should. In real life, counter battery radar and fire against artillery is a thing. You can see shells and missiles arc into the air... and you can see and/or calculate where they came from. And in the 31st century, you should be able to do the same thing.

So here's the idea: What happens if every time someone fires an LRM launcher, they light themselves up as a targetable red blip on every enemy's radar? Or at least, every enemy in LRM range? Of course, that blip will quickly disappear unless the enemy has put Skill Points into Target Decay... or the LRM user keeps sending an unending stream of LRMs into the air before his signal can fade away.

So the biggest threat to an LRM mech? Other mechs carrying LRMs. And if you carry even token LRMs, you no longer have to be frustrated at not being able to return fire. You CAN return fire... as can everyone else in your team.

Just be sure to practice proper shoot and scoot tactics when you do.

[LordNothing]

actually i do look for long streams of missiles coming from a location other than the enemy's murder ball. when i see them i sneak over in my squirrel and kill them.

of course in living legends and almost every other mechwarrior game for that matter there is this thing called passive radar. living legends is a place where only noobs, lermers and people with ecm use active sensors. it just lights you up like a christmas tree. and since you need it to get locks it kind of balances out. so mechanics where running hot or relying too much on sensors making your blip brighter are always welcome in my book.

[InvictusLee]

HELL YES. PLEASE INSTALL THIS IDEA INTO THE GAME LOL

[JediPanther]

I'd love to see eight counters to ac and lasers. No other weapon in the game has eight counters.

[Brain Cancer]

Yes. Let's take a system where it warns you every time someone fires at you, leaves a massive trail in the air to follow, and has multiple hard counters ANOTHER issue.

Because it'll be -fun-.

[El Bandito]

Are you suggesting more nerfs to one if the least efficient weapon system?

Just make it fair. Make mechs light up on radar when they fire ANY type of weapon.

[The6thMessenger]

LRMs right now have a lot of counters, it's success is more of when the enemy being bad than the lurmer being good. On the playing field where everyone actually knows how to deal LRMs, it's hard to make them work already. Hell, the missile can already be traced from a general direction, effectively giving your position away already when you fire.

Although, I'd rather have a static targettable dummy than a homing on the lurmer themselves. At least the dumb potatoes would actually move as they lurm.

[Brain Cancer]

LRMs are basically a punishment weapon.

If we hit you, you generally screwed up somewhere. If you get rained to death (and that takes time), it's more a delivery of judgement on the target's situational awareness than anything else. Good teams can help force mistakes that missiles exploit, but in the end, it was someone capitalizing on your errors that get you killed.

LRMs drill this into someone better than any weapon in the game. It's about the only way they shine- once you can reasonably stay out of the rain, you've reached at least a modest standard of play in MWO.

[LordNothing]

JediPanther, on 11 June 2017 - 10:16 PM, said:

I'd love to see eight counters to ac and lasers. No other weapon in the game has eight counters.

people firing alpha strikes should totally be lit up as well. lerm nerfs also opens the door to buffing narc and tag to a level where they are relevant.

really im not so much for nerfing lerms as i am about redoing pgi's dumbed down and down right shoddy sensory mechanics. why cant we have the dream system that living legends had. lerms were relevant (beyond noob weapon), scouts were relevant, lights were relevant (mostly as c3 carriers). teamwork was relevant. you know everything mwo lacks.

Edited by LordNothing, 11 June 2017 - 11:05 PM.

[Roadbuster]

LRMs don't need more nerfs.
It's one of the least effective weapon systems in MWO, and people still complain about it.

LRMs are countered by:
- ECM
- Radar deprivation
- Cover
- AMS
- 180m minimum range
- firing arc


I wonder if the players who always complain about them, ever tried to use LRMs.
Probably not, because "LRMs are noob weapons", "LRM users are scum who just want easy kills without sharing armor", and I'm pretty sure that "LRMs are too weak/uneffective" is a reason too.


tldr

LRM HATE

[Roadbuster]

LordNothing, on 11 June 2017 - 10:59 PM, said:

...teamwork was relevant. you know everything mwo lacks.

Teamwork is relevant in MWO. It's just rare that there is any teamwork except in unit drops.

[Vellron2005]

evilauthor, on 11 June 2017 - 10:05 PM, said:

So I'm watching this video here, and I see giant long streams of LRMs pummeling mechs to pieces. It's one of the things that people hate about LRMs right?

But I'm thinking, "Wow, with all those long streams of LRMs, shouldn't you be able to follow them right back to their launchers?"

And then it hit me. Because the answer is, yes you should. In real life, counter battery radar and fire against artillery is a thing. You can see shells and missiles arc into the air... and you can see and/or calculate where they came from. And in the 31st century, you should be able to do the same thing.

So here's the idea: What happens if every time someone fires an LRM launcher, they light themselves up as a targetable red blip on every enemy's radar? Or at least, every enemy in LRM range? Of course, that blip will quickly disappear unless the enemy has put Skill Points into Target Decay... or the LRM user keeps sending an unending stream of LRMs into the air before his signal can fade away.

So the biggest threat to an LRM mech? Other mechs carrying LRMs. And if you carry even token LRMs, you no longer have to be frustrated at not being able to return fire. You CAN return fire... as can everyone else in your team.

Just be sure to practice proper shoot and scoot tactics when you do.

So basically, you want YET ANOTHER hard counter to LRMs, and to nerf them further cose' you don't know how to use cover?

How about your mech pops a flare every time you fire a Gauss or PPC, cose' in 3050 I should be able to calculate your slug/blast trajectory and where it originated from, and then my LRM automatically homes on that? Huh? Would that be fair?

Seriously..

Please.. do us all a favor and go play Mario Kart..

Edited by Vellron2005, 12 June 2017 - 12:26 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Brain Cancer, on 11 June 2017 - 10:56 PM, said:

LRMs are basically a punishment weapon.

After a grueling 686 dmg on Caustic Valley domination, i got narced and chewed up by the LRM boats -- a 6x LRM5 catapult and then 4x LRM15A Mad dog -- both with no backup weapons.

I was pushing with my team, but as i was sharing armor, one narcing raven got me. Poor cover, i decidied to charge and die towards the Mad Dog.

Was that just poor piloting on my part? A mistake? Or just some cheeky raven, and a lazy lurmboater? We won by the way.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 12 June 2017 - 12:47 AM.

[Pjwned]

You can already see where the damn LRMs are coming from if you just pay a bit of attention though.

Why would the LRM mech need to be lit up on the radar on top of that? Just go flank the LRM boats after they give away their location.

[LordNothing]

Roadbuster, on 12 June 2017 - 12:25 AM, said:

Teamwork is relevant in MWO. It's just rare that there is any teamwork except in unit drops.

i meant with reguard to lerms. they really need to be a teamwork++ weapon and not a noob weapon. you can teamwork lerms with spectacular results sure but thats not who actually uses them.

[Roadbuster]

LordNothing, on 12 June 2017 - 01:55 AM, said:

i meant with reguard to lerms. they really need to be a teamwork++ weapon and not a noob weapon. you can teamwork lerms with spectacular results sure but thats not who actually uses them.

Ah, ok, my bad.

I agree with you. LRMs are a weapon which can be very effective if you work together. Not so much if you play solo queue or in random teams.
To be effective with them, and I don't mean these rare 1k dmg matches but constant good results, you have to consider alot more things compared to playing your standard SRM/energy/ballistic brawler/sniper build.


There are just two common mistakes people make, when fighting LRM boats.
The first is to have no cover you can reach fast enough, and no AMS. It's like going for a walk, knowing it's going to rain, but taking no umbrella. Expect to get wet.
The second mistake is to backpaddle. I've seen it so many times, but people don't stop doing it. Your team pushes and suddenly there are incomming LRMs. But instead of dashing forward to close the range and make the LRMs useless, they struggle to run back, block eachother...chaos...anarchy...chocolate...death.


My opinion is that it's not easy to be effective with LRMs as main weapon (always bring backup lasers please).
But they are a good addition to loadouts if you have the tonnage to spare. Yes, I like mixed loadouts.

[Oldbob10025]

evilauthor, on 11 June 2017 - 10:05 PM, said:

So I'm watching this video here, and I see giant long streams of LRMs pummeling mechs to pieces. It's one of the things that people hate about LRMs right?

But I'm thinking, "Wow, with all those long streams of LRMs, shouldn't you be able to follow them right back to their launchers?"

And then it hit me. Because the answer is, yes you should. In real life, counter battery radar and fire against artillery is a thing. You can see shells and missiles arc into the air... and you can see and/or calculate where they came from. And in the 31st century, you should be able to do the same thing.

So here's the idea: What happens if every time someone fires an LRM launcher, they light themselves up as a targetable red blip on every enemy's radar? Or at least, every enemy in LRM range? Of course, that blip will quickly disappear unless the enemy has put Skill Points into Target Decay... or the LRM user keeps sending an unending stream of LRMs into the air before his signal can fade away.

So the biggest threat to an LRM mech? Other mechs carrying LRMs. And if you carry even token LRMs, you no longer have to be frustrated at not being able to return fire. You CAN return fire... as can everyone else in your team.

Just be sure to practice proper shoot and scoot tactics when you do.

No no no there are more than eight counters to LRMS including using a enemy to shield you from fire against LRM's. I use Lrms sometimes and its hard as hell to get a hit let alone a stream of missiles against one mech. Learn to counter LRM's and its not a issue.

I think the only people that want to nerf LRM's are the ones that dont know the eight ways to counter LRM's is my thoughts. Hell I played a 3 AMS support Nova with 9,000 rounds and took down over 1600 missiles and that was just me, we nerfed the three missile boats that were spamming missiles towards our team. ( I see a video in Oldbobs future on how to counter LRM's)

I find it funny that so many people want to nerf more the worst weapon in the game with so many counters. Tell you what when we have laser reflective armor against lasers and PPC's I would hint at the idea of nerfing LRM's

[evilauthor]

Pjwned, on 12 June 2017 - 01:09 AM, said:

You can already see where the damn LRMs are coming from if you just pay a bit of attention though.

Why would the LRM mech need to be lit up on the radar on top of that? Just go flank the LRM boats after they give away their location.

Well as I outlined in my idea, it makes the most dangerous thing to an LRM boat another LRM boat.

A guy alpha striking with direct fire weapons is theoretically vulnerable to direct fire weapons in return, because he has to be in line of sight with the target. Right now, that's not necessarily the case with an LRM spammer. Sure, a Light or fast Medium or Heavy can back track the LRMs to the launcher and hunt the LRM spammer down, but it's not quite as immediate a response as replying with direct fire weapons is.

Don't mistake me for an LRM hater. I love my LRM boats. But there are times when I'm piloting a LRM boat of my own and seeing streams of enemy LRMs rise into the sky and having no way to shoot back at the source because there's no lock is... annoying.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

After a grueling 686 dmg on Caustic Valley domination, i got narced and chewed up by the LRM boats -- a 6x LRM5 catapult and then 4x LRM15A Mad dog -- both with no backup weapons.

I was pushing with my team, but as i was sharing armor, one narcing raven got me. Poor cover, i decidied to charge and die towards the Mad Dog.

Was that just poor piloting on my part? A mistake? Or just some cheeky raven, and a lazy lurmboater? We won by the way.

Did your team warn you about a NARC spotter?

Did you have AMS? AMS can kill NARC pods outside of short range.

Did you maneuver for cover or a team-mate with ECM, or a friendly lance (or even a friendly ToolKit Fox) that equipped AMS? Friendly ECM shuts down active NARC, getting into friendly AMS guarantees they're going to be shooting into that umbrella since "shoot the NARC" is something even mediocre lurmboats get.

Did your lights identify and attack the spotter to keep him away from the main pack?

Someone made a mistake, the biggest one being "not IDing and killing the spotter" ASAP. That you had two all LRM boaters on the other side with the NARCer- was it group queue?

[Pjwned]

evilauthor, on 12 June 2017 - 06:32 AM, said:

Well as I outlined in my idea, it makes the most dangerous thing to an LRM boat another LRM boat.

A guy alpha striking with direct fire weapons is theoretically vulnerable to direct fire weapons in return, because he has to be in line of sight with the target. Right now, that's not necessarily the case with an LRM spammer. Sure, a Light or fast Medium or Heavy can back track the LRMs to the launcher and hunt the LRM spammer down, but it's not quite as immediate a response as replying with direct fire weapons is.

Don't mistake me for an LRM hater. I love my LRM boats. But there are times when I'm piloting a LRM boat of my own and seeing streams of enemy LRMs rise into the sky and having no way to shoot back at the source because there's no lock is... annoying.

If the enemy LRM boats have a lock while you don't then that either means they have a spotter or the enemy LRM boat is getting their own target and you're too busy hiding behind hills while your team is getting shot up.

Why should you get a free lunch in the form of an effortless target lock because somebody was playing better than you? You absolutely shouldn't.

I'm actually somewhat triggered now by how dumb this idea is after explaining yourself, because you want to punish people playing decently and reward the "LRM support" mechs who sit behind hills not contributing anything of value, which is the complete opposite of how it should be.