22 replies to this topic

[Ced Riggs]

So, new tech.

Aside from the LFE and LFF, personally, I'm looking forward to the versatility of LAMS. I have started speccing AMS nodes in the survival tree on any mech that can equip AMS. They way I see it, we will be able to slot in LAMS - a way to fight off missiles onm demand, which uses heat as "ammunition". When you got spare heat, you have it on, when you don't because you are in an intense fight riding the heat wave, you turn it off. On mechs which have AMS + 1 ton of ammo, you gain a ton to allocate for another heat sink or more ammo for your primaries.

Anyone else getting ready in that regard? Having AMS cover for your team is just half a ton away, come 20th of June.

... and shock absorb isn't that great of a skill when you can have missile peace instead. The iron dome Nova (6x ERML, 3x AMS) is gonna profit from this, too - you slap in the tree AMS, 6 ERMLL, and stuff the rest of the mech with heat sinks. Sorted, bam! Same with all the lights that have AMS slots, but are starved for tonnage - Javelin energy boat comes to mind.

I just hope that (at least in QP/GQ), people make that 0.5 ton investment.

[El Bandito]

We don't know if it will cost 0.5 ton. LAMS uses modified Small Pulse, so it won't be surprising if it costs 1 ton.

We also don't know if PGI will follow TT heat value, cause LAMS heats up real fast--as if you are firing a medium laser non-stop.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 June 2017 - 12:09 AM.

[Nymh]

Unless they significantly tweak the values, the LAMS won't be very useful and anyone who wants AMS will stick to the normal version. Heat is the primary limiter on DPS for nearly all builds so there aren't going to be a lot of situations where you'll want to be generating more for the sake of poking down a few missiles.

[Zigmund Freud]

Nymh, on 12 June 2017 - 12:14 AM, said:

Unless they significantly tweak the values, the LAMS won't be very useful and anyone who wants AMS will stick to the normal version. Heat is the primary limiter on DPS for nearly all builds so there aren't going to be a lot of situations where you'll want to be generating more for the sake of poking down a few missiles.

You can turn it off when you're using your weapons. For something like splat boat, ac20 king crab etc lams can be used to close the distance to brawl, and you will turn it off before you fire the first shot.
Also I think it should be 1,5 t. Regular ams is 0,5+1 ammo, so it would be more fair.

[Ced Riggs]

LAMS weighs 0.5t in TT, and since PGI seems to follow TT values, I am assuming it'll weight 0.5 tons here. PGI also follows heat values quite closely, so the assumption would be 5 heat for clams, 7 heat for spheroids. Trading a ton of ammo for a ton of heatsink is the shift from ammo to heat.

[MustrumRidcully]

Ced Riggs, on 12 June 2017 - 12:28 AM, said:

LAMS weighs 0.5t in TT, and since PGI seems to follow TT values, I am assuming it'll weight 0.5 tons here. PGI also follows heat values quite closely, so the assumption would be 5 heat for clams, 7 heat for spheroids. Trading a ton of ammo for a ton of heatsink is the shift from ammo to heat.

It really sounds like a terrible deal, really. In TT, you'd need 2-4 true dubs to compensate the AMS level of heat. That's 2-4 tons and 4 to 12 crits. How many people equip more than one ton for a single AMS?

I suppose they might alter how the LAMS work so it only consumes heat when firing, meaning the final level of heat will be far lower in TT. Then it might work.

[Ced Riggs]

I'd be blown away if it works produce heat when idle. That'd make it DOA. The way I'm looking at it, LAMS should, in theory, assist in AMS cover during setting up a firing line or protect individual pokers, and when the team goes for the big push, you turn it off, as heat demands. Any additional dhs are then working for your primaries. Can't reassign AMS ammo.

[Curccu]

Sounds pretty insane to have same heat as LPL?

[LordNothing]

i think i will mostly use it on my ballistic boats. their low heat and my desire not to waste my prime ammunition storage real estate is going to mesh quite well with the heat spewing ammo free ams system.

lighter support boats like the 3x ams kitfox will probibly be very toasty. so i would stick to ammo varients on that version.

[RestosIII]

Ced Riggs, on 12 June 2017 - 12:28 AM, said:

LAMS weighs 0.5t in TT, and since PGI seems to follow TT values, I am assuming it'll weight 0.5 tons here. PGI also follows heat values quite closely, so the assumption would be 5 heat for clams, 7 heat for spheroids. Trading a ton of ammo for a ton of heatsink is the shift from ammo to heat.

If we got those heat values, I can't wait to see my triple AMS Cute Fox loaded up with them. Fastest suicide by lurms possible.

[LordNothing]

i dont think they will be as hot as a small pulse. i seem to recall reading that its really a spl but at a much lower power level. imagine an spl but with a duration stretched out to a second or two, but only fired in fractionally short bursts. its probibly just going to look like the standard ams with a red tracer but il just assume its a steady state beam tracking and destroying incoming projectiles.

[Bandilly]

TT heat made them difficult to really take advantage of without centering your whole build around the L-AMS system. They should be ok for heavy ballistic builds, but I'll be disappointed if laser vomit builds aren't hindered by the extra heat.

[MustrumRidcully]

RestosIII, on 12 June 2017 - 02:01 AM, said:

If we got those heat values, I can't wait to see my triple AMS Cute Fox loaded up with them. Fastest suicide by lurms possible.

Especially if they add ghost heat.

[FupDup]

El Bandito, on 12 June 2017 - 12:08 AM, said:

We don't know if it will cost 0.5 ton. LAMS uses modified Small Pulse, so it won't be surprising if it costs 1 ton.

PGI will not change the weight or slots of any item.

IS LAMS is 1.5 tons and 2 slots, Clan LAMS is 1 ton and 1 slot.

[El Bandito]

FupDup, on 12 June 2017 - 03:21 AM, said:

PGI will not change the weight or slots of any item.

IS LAMS is 1.5 tons and 2 slots, Clan LAMS is 1 ton and 1 slot.

IS LAMS should have better stats than Clan LAMS then. PGI is really ignoring higher weight/slot cost of IS equipment without due compensation, such as Endo/Ferro, ECM, BAP, CASE, which sucks.

I'd be pissed if they troll us with higher heat requirement for IS LAMS, just cause of lore. As if IS mechs can pack more DHS than Clan mechs.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 June 2017 - 05:13 AM.

[Magnus Santini]

If those are the slot and ton requirements of LAMS, let me save PGI the time. No one can use it. Not because it would not be good or useful, but because no one has that space available. Why not just remove a heat sink instead and replace it with wishful thinking for nearly the same benefit.

[Paigan]

Ced Riggs, on 11 June 2017 - 11:55 PM, said:

So, new tech.

Aside from the LFE and LFF, personally, I'm looking forward to the versatility of LAMS. I have started speccing AMS nodes in the survival tree on any mech that can equip AMS. They way I see it, we will be able to slot in LAMS - a way to fight off missiles onm demand, which uses heat as "ammunition". When you got spare heat, you have it on, when you don't because you are in an intense fight riding the heat wave, you turn it off. On mechs which have AMS + 1 ton of ammo, you gain a ton to allocate for another heat sink or more ammo for your primaries.

Anyone else getting ready in that regard? Having AMS cover for your team is just half a ton away, come 20th of June.

... and shock absorb isn't that great of a skill when you can have missile peace instead. The iron dome Nova (6x ERML, 3x AMS) is gonna profit from this, too - you slap in the tree AMS, 6 ERMLL, and stuff the rest of the mech with heat sinks. Sorted, bam! Same with all the lights that have AMS slots, but are starved for tonnage - Javelin energy boat comes to mind.

I just hope that (at least in QP/GQ), people make that 0.5 ton investment.

While the AMS topic in general has been discussed to the death, the LAMS indeed changes it a little bit.

My short version is:
- AMS is only useful against missiles. If your opponent has no missiles, it is wasted tonnage.
- There are countless other and more efficient ways to counter LRMs, e.g. cover or simply outrange (or underrange) them

In general, a combat game requires to have a lot of PROCESSING power (= weapons). Defensive power does nothing, it's only a buffer to delay defeat. Of course you can't win if you have a buffer of 0 and die from the first hit, but at some point, adding more buffer instead of processing power will hurt you instead of help you. It's like the WarCraft Paladin's divine shield: an Angst Bubble. You're safe for a little longer, but it doesn't help you to create processing progress.
I'd rather improve my chance to win right away instead of just living a few seconds longer before I lose.

And what do you know: I hardly EVER have problems with enemy LRMs. If I have, it's 100% my own fault for stepping out in the open with a slow Mech despite knowing the enemy has LRMS.
So you REALLY do NOT need any dedicated LRM counter if you know what you are doing.
No need for an angst bubble if you play properly in the first place.

PLUS:
- If you have an ammo-free Mech, you are MUCH more free to slightly overheat. Carrying AMS kills that advantage. This changes with LAMS.

That being said, I do play with the idea of actually equipping LAMS and, as you say, just turn it off if I can't spare the heat.

I had 4 Mechs with AMS around me the other day and it was indeed a nice view to see how they shielded me from any and all LRMs the enemy mechs tried to counter my sniping with.
It's not necessary, but it makes life a little easier.
Carrying ammo for it (you know: that stuff that can run OUT and even EXPLODE ) is absolutely not worth it.

An ammoless version might be.


Funny side note:
My favorite Mech&build currently has a CAP just because I have 1/1 free that I can't make use of otherwise.
Perfect opportunity to equip a LAMS there.
Problem is: I have no AMS hardpoint ...

Edited by Paigan, 12 June 2017 - 06:09 AM.

[Ced Riggs]

Paigan, on 12 June 2017 - 05:55 AM, said:

AMS is only useful against missiles. If your opponent has no missiles, it is wasted tonnage.

Counterpoint: With MRMs and ATMs joining the fray, IS getting Streak 4 and 6, (L)AMS will have no shortage of application. With a maximum range of ~220m (specced) and no minimum range, (L)AMS will keep not just LRMs at bay. And you know everyone and their grandmother's dog's therapist's hair stylist will try the new toys.

[Paigan]

Ced Riggs, on 12 June 2017 - 06:11 AM, said:

Counterpoint: With MRMs and ATMs joining the fray, IS getting Streak 4 and 6, (L)AMS will have no shortage of application. With a maximum range of ~220m (specced) and no minimum range, (L)AMS will keep not just LRMs at bay. And you know everyone and their grandmother's dog's therapist's hair stylist will try the new toys.

If trying out new toys is an argument for (L)AMS, then it will vanish automatically after the initial try-out phase.
That leaves the "but lots of missiles" argument.
True, but isn't that the case already? There will also be a lot of new non-missile weapons which will potentially displace missiles from builds.

In the end, it will be as it is now: there are missiles for various ranges. AMS helps against them. But so do other means.

If you have to storm up on an LRM boat in the open, you would say "I told you so".
If you have to duell a AC/Laser/PPC boat, I would say "I told you so".

My experience is that the latter is much more frequent and critical than the prior.
Hence no AMS.

Edited by Paigan, 12 June 2017 - 06:20 AM.

[Vellron2005]

Personally, I hope not many people use LAMS. As a LRM aficionado, if everybody's rocking LAMS, that means LRMs will be hard-counterd even more, and will become even harder to use..

I hope this does not happen..