10 replies to this topic

[AngrySpartan]

Hopefully It's not necessary to argue that Escort is broken. Probably the least popular gamemode ATM (only rivaling Incursion in my experience) and when it occasionally happens, there is a lot of salt in a match chat.

In case you still want to argue/want some rant rationale behind thoughts below:

Spoiler

What makes the Escort so unenjoyable and frustrating is that it takes away player ability to influence match outcome. Because at defense, when you're in a middle of a fight VIP still blindly charging into firing line and dies in seconds. Because at offense, when enemy team is eliminated and there is only legged assault and a light left on your side, they just don't have enough firepower to bring VIP down in time and utilize your combat victory. Escort takes away your decision power and in-game skills and substitutes them for a dummy AI waypoints. At that particular gamemode "objective based gameplay" stands in the way of a core gameplay.

There is a single good thing about Escort nonetheless. "Moving target" idea brings the fight to the locations noone usually engaged in combat. It makes repetitive arena shooter a bit less predictable, and that should be the main selling point of an Escort.

Keep in mind, this suggestion does not pretend to be a comprehensive solution. It aims to resolve single issue - VIP suicide runs.

Step 1. Make VIP invincible
No more "VIP into firing line", no more random fastmovers killing VIP, a lot less randomness in that regard.
Step 2. Turn VIP into walking domination area/capture point.
Since there is no more "destroy VIP" objective there should be a different goal for attacking side. There is sort of OK Domination gamemode, there is tried&true Conquest capture mechanic, both of them can be utilized with or without adjustments.

From the gameplay perspective twose 2 steps alone provide the following:
1) give defenders more reliable way to defend VIP (conquest/domination rules to prevent capture)
2) give defenders more time to react to the threats
3) give attackers reason to play the game instead of playing target practice
4) obviously, VIP can't make kamikadze charge anymore
Overall they give players a lot more power to influence the match result.

Thoughts & constructive critisism are welcomed. Spartan out.

[Vellron2005]

There are simpler ways for fixing Escort.. I think of 2 the most.. depending on A.I. capabilities..

1) Make the Atlas VIP Shoot back! If the A.I. permits this, give the Atlas VIP offensive abilities, making it a "moving fortress" capable of defending itself in some capacity.

2) If the A.I. cannot be advanced enough for the Atlas to shoot back, replace the Atlas with a big MFB vehicle. That way, the minds of the players will shift to "our VIP is squishy, we need to protect it". Also, if there are no friendly units within 400 meters of the VIP, issue a warning, and make the VIP stop moving.

In both cases, remove the useless ECM/Jammming points and turrets. They add nothing to the mode.

The biggest problem with Escort is the lack of player interest in playing for the objective.

Everybody just wants to rack up damage and kills. Then they run off to play skirmish, while a lone locust backstabs the oblivious VIP..

Like with Incursion, make it PROFITABLE to save/kill the VIP..

Alternatively, make the VIP emit a zone of influence like the one on domination, maybe a bit bigger, and make it so that if a player leaves the zone, they get the desertion "out of bounds" countdown..

Edited by Vellron2005, 14 June 2017 - 02:51 AM.

[AngrySpartan]

@Vellron2005
1) Developing an AI or new assets (MFB) isn't cheap and takes time. I'd love to see VIP Atlas being replaced by something lore friendly, but that's unreachable dream considering PGI's track record.

2) As you said:

Vellron2005, on 14 June 2017 - 02:45 AM, said:

Everybody just wants to rack up damage and kills. Then they run off to play skirmish, while a lone locust backstabs the oblivious VIP..

After all most of the players came to MWO to shoot giant stompy robots, that's the main gameplay, that's the core of the game.
The whole idea of killable VIP ruins that gameplay. In fact, anything that can stop the game prematurely and prevent long firefights is bad for the fun factor of MWO(e.g. Assault gamemode: base capture is considered to be a bad manners by many players). This is why Conquest is a good gamemode - there is a second objective to reach through the duration of the match, it does not prevent you from enjoying core gameplay. This is why Assault, Incursion and Escort are so bad - match can be finished in 60 second, thus you can't enjoy action part of the game.

Yes, Escort has many other problems: stupid jam towers, no VIP route data, not working on many maps, etc. However, they all secondary. Until "VIP suicide run" problem will persist, there will be no interest in Escort from the players. Which is the shame, cause Escort is the only A-symmetrical gamemode in QP and it makes better use of existing maps.

[Bigbacon]

make the VIP a ground vehicle that can shoot weapons 360 degrees...like a land based drop ship.

not that any of it matters.

all game modes boil down to skirmish anyway.

I think some of them should be more like faction play but without decks. Mechs redrop until time runs out or the objective is met. Scoring would have to change for those modes so people don't draw them out to rack up bills but why not try it. escort and incursion would be good modes for something like this.

Edited by Bigbacon, 15 June 2017 - 04:30 AM.

[Ruccus]

I'd suggest to remove the radar sites that need to be turned, and since the defenders get a VIP mech the attackers should get a low flying drop ship. There should be equal firepower on both the VIP mech and dropship (whether it's none, one or two MLs, or MLs and LLs). Since the VIP can be destroyed, the drop ship can be shot out of the sky.

For the first ten seconds of the match the defenders will vote (using WASD) on one of four different routes the VIP mech can take, and its route will be overlayed on the defenders' map (so they know where the heck the VIP mech intends to go!). For the attackers they use the first ten second to vote on one of four pathing routes of their drop ship. After the votes the match begins.

That would allow defenders to know where the VIP mech will be going (so they can either clear the way or 'fake out' the attackers by pushing the opposite area of the map and draw them away), and allow the attackers to use the drop ship to either cover the route they're not taking or support their push to where they think the enemy will be.

[Khobai]

giving the VIP more back armor and the ability to shoot back would improve escort slightly

it still wouldnt be great, but when every other gamemode is just skirmish, its not like it has a lot to compete with...

[R Valentine]

Incursion is worse. At least the VIP has some armor. Incursion bases are 100% defenseless. The turrets can be taken down easily by lights and mediums and the bases fall ridiculously fast. A lone medium can clean up the whole thing in under a minute. Why do I even care about such a base if it's so flimsy? Why is destroying a Kindergarten classroom the main objective of the game? It makes zero sense.

[evilauthor]

Dewd, on 15 June 2017 - 07:03 AM, said:

If the VIP had AI similar to the turrets and could shoot back somewhat, that would be a big step forward. Probably the risk of overheating or running out of ammo makes this difficult to put into play. Additionally, if the defenders had some clue where the mindless VIP was going, that would also help a lot.

The biggest issue I've experienced with the escort mode is having no clue what the VIP is doing, which makes no sense at all. Surely the people running along with a VIP would know what route was being taken first to make sure the VIP made it there. And honestly, the route should be longer. Why on earth would a drop ship drop a bunch of mechs a couple of miles from where another drop ship is going to pick them up again?

Or at least, give us a reason that this is happening - some immersion is badly needed in the qp games. Perhaps the original drop ship was shot down/had mechanical failure/etc. and that's why we need to hump across a couple of miles to safety. I would gladly sit through a ten to fifteen second 'movie' of our ships getting shot down (or of us shooting down the enemy ship) before the mission started if that helped it make more sense in the game play.

Alternatively, as we're dropped off from our Dropships, we're ordered to guard the area while our Dropships pick up the VIP. Then a scripted airstrike happens and our Dropships all EXPLODE. THEN we're ordered to escort the VIP to a new pickup point.

[Admiral-Dan]

PGI already fixed Escort by removing it from the Queue.

[AngrySpartan]

AlphaEtOmega, on 15 June 2017 - 07:58 AM, said:

PGI already fixed Escort by removing it from the Queue.

Ha, players practically removed it from the queue since the first escort event was over

To the topic though:
1. With all the respect to your opinion guys, allowing VIP to shoot back will hardly change anything. It's still a big dumb moving target. It still will go down in seconds upon walking into the firing line. Unless it will receive immense firepower of course, in which case it will be totally unfair to the attacking team, hence the same result - broken Escort.
2. Giving VIP more armor isn't an option as well, see the point above about attacking team.
@Khobai, here's the hint: VIP already has more back armour than the front armor (280 back STs&CT&front CT, 260 front STs).
3. Every gamemode turns into skirmish eventually, which is fine!!! That's the main mechanic of any shooter, MWO included. I can't see why people are so opposed to skirmish and yet, they still keep playing the game. That's also true, that MWO lacks more goal-oriented gamemodes (except Conquest).

Let's be realistic - turning Escort into a strategy minigame is practically impossible without remaking the whole mode (e.g. adding respawns/player controlled VIP, etc.). Turning Escort into better Skirmish/Domination is achievable on the other hand. Every map has it's meta, has it's own iconic places like Citadel (River city&Desert), Theta-D4 on Canyon, etc. Escort is damn good if you want to fight in the different areas of the map, thus having different experience.

4.Having VIP route information is nice, it can work, but ultimately it doesn't prevent premature ending of a match. It doesn't prevent VIP destruction from walking straight into the firing line or from being backstabbed by a light pack. The only thing that it gives is time to react accordingly. Moreover, if defenders would have knew VIP route in advance, that's highly likely defenders would just camp attackers at an optimal position. What's the point of Escort than?
Making VIP indestructible achieves the same, only better.

Edited by AngrySpartan, 15 June 2017 - 01:51 PM.