361 replies to this topic

[pyrocomp]

So basically you push for a fast (with your optimistic expectations) Clan heavy with an abundance of high energy mounts? A definition of a power creep.
Look at HBK-IIC and it's extremely low speed and agilty that still do not completely compesate for those high mounts. So RFL-IIC for any resemblacne of a balance should then be agile like a DFW. And no faster. But then, we already have KDK.

[The6thMessenger]

I don't mind a rifleman IIC, it's just that i never really enjoyed the normal one anyways. Who knows, maybe this JJ-version would be far better.

But i would prefer an Urbie-IIC first.

Johnny Z, on 13 June 2017 - 09:33 PM, said:

First time I liked my own reply this topic.

Practically sucking your own d*ck.

[Battlemaster56]

pyrocomp, on 14 June 2017 - 04:01 AM, said:

So basically you push for a fast (with your optimistic expectations) Clan heavy with an abundance of high energy mounts? A definition of a power creep.
Look at HBK-IIC and it's extremely low speed and agilty that still do not completely compesate for those high mounts. So RFL-IIC for any resemblacne of a balance should then be agile like a DFW. And no faster. But then, we already have KDK.

The RFL-IIC at best will be average speed at best, and the HBK-IIC is not slow 89.1/ 95.7k[ph with full speed tweek that's pretty much Linebacker speed without speed tweak on it, also you gonna put the mech at DOA giving it 100 tonner agility (that no mech should have) and the mech will be big and easy to hit seeing how big the ct and st's. And I doubt they will give this mech any huge HP inflation and probably a low engine cap.

Edited by Battlemaster56, 14 June 2017 - 05:06 AM.

[pyrocomp]

Battlemaster56, on 14 June 2017 - 05:06 AM, said:

The RFL-IIC at best will be average speed at best, and the HBK-IIC is not slow 89.1/ 95.7k[ph with full speed tweek that's pretty much Linebacker speed without speed tweak on it, also you gonna put the mech at DOA giving it 100 tonner agility (that no mech should have) and the mech will be big and easy to hit seeing how big the ct and st's. And I doubt they will give this mech any huge HP inflation and probably a low engine cap.

Those 89 come with the largest engine you can fit on it leaving less weight for the loadout. And that speed is not even impressive in Medium class. Specifically compared to a heavier SCR.
And that mech has lowest agilty in all Mediums and lower than most Heavies. So, what agilty should have same mech with higher mass? You guessed right, close one to KDK. Just as the pattern used to define agilty.

Edited by pyrocomp, 14 June 2017 - 05:21 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

I totally know how Rifleman IIC hero should look like!

Edited by The6thMessenger, 14 June 2017 - 06:13 AM.

[AphexTwin11]

Arnold The Governator, on 13 June 2017 - 08:40 PM, said:

As suggested by Imperius again, this thread will clear up any misconceptions that people might have with this mech, will serve to educate any players in the community about what exactly this mech is, and why it should be included in the next mechpack for MW:O. I will be doing a lot of copying and pasting from a few past threads. Don't forget to scroll down to the TL:DR section and like Roderick Steiner's tweet to Russ Bullock as well. So let's begin!


So what exactly is the Rifleman IIC? Copied directly from Sarna.net:


http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rifleman_IIC





RFL-IIC

65 Tons

Clan Battlemech

"The Rifleman IIC is an upgrade of the venerable Rifleman BattleMech. Five tons heavier than the design it is based on, the Rifleman IIC is also slower. This creates a great deal more room with which to mount other equipment. Further weight savings are found in the use of an Endo Steel frame. One of the first upgrades to the design was maxing out its protection, with eleven tons of Ferro-Fibrous armor. The vaunted anti-aircraft 'Mech is aided in its role by the inclusion of an Active Probe. To compensate for the loss of speed, the IIC mounts three jump jets that can propel the 'Mech up to ninety meters in one leap."


So let's clear up a few things about the RFL-IIC. I made some frequently asked questions usually asked about the RFL-IIC from the community. The following Q&A will help people understand the mech and what it could bring to MW:O.


Q: Isn't this mech a direct copy of the IS Rifleman? Why would we want a clan version of it in game?

A: It is NOT a direct copy of it's distant IS cousin. Let me clarify to everyone that most of the IIC counterparts are COMPLETELY new mechs redesigned from the ground up by the clans. The only thing that it shares with the IS version is that they share similar roles as AA support mechs.


Q: So it's a dedicated anti-air mech. Why exactly should we have an anti-air mech in a game that has well, no aircraft in it?

A: The Rifleman IIC platform goes above and beyond it's anti-air role and is a formidable clan battlemech. Some label it as a pocket assault since it's prime armament has a powerful quad clan large pulse laser build. When this mech was first introduced by Victor Musical Industries in table top, the mech's original loadout consisted of 20 DHS and simply 4 cLPL's. The mech was so powerful that they had to remove 1 DHS, in favor for a clan beagle active probe and a single back up ER small laser in the head. The 19 DHS's now prevent it from successfully alphaing without any heat penalties per round.


Q: I get it. Is this another clan cheese meta mech?

A: Not at all. In all of it's clan glory the Rifleman IIC has one major drawback. It's speed. On tabletop it has a meager 3/5/3, or basically a top speed of 54 kmph. This is largely due to the fact that the clans figured that the mech doesn't need a lot of speed since it serves as a defensive second line sentry mech. With 11 tons of ferro-fibrous armor it can tank quite easily for it's weight bracket.


Q: 54 kmph on a clan 65 ton heavy? Are you kidding me? That is dangerously slow for a clan heavy!

A: Not quite true at all. This rule only applies to the standard default engine of the mech. The jump jets on the RFL-IIC prime gave it extra mobility when needed on the battlefield. However since this is a clan battlemech, the standard engine can be swapped out for an XL. This will bump up the speed to 64.8 kmph to as much as 72+ kmph depending on what PGI decides it's engine cap will be for the mech. A safe bet would be somewhere around XL 320-340 since we had a large engine bump with the Annihilator (whom suffered from movement mobility as well).


Q: It's another 65 ton clan mech. Don't we have enough clan heavies in the game already?

A: It would be the 4th clan heavy battlemech to be introduced to the game. While we have the Hellbringer, Ebon Jaguar, and the Linebacker, the Rifleman IIC offers something unique to the plate. It would be the second available clan heavy battlemech in the game. The only other clan heavy battlemech that exists in game is the Orion IIC.


Q: We already have the Night Gyr and the upcoming Nova Cat for clan heavy energy mechs. Why should we have another clan laser vomit mech?

A: The Rifleman IIC would be unique to these mechs in the fact that it has 5 high energy hard points. That is two for each arm, and one in the head. The other fact is that the Nova Cat and Night Gyr are clan omnimechs makes the Rifleman IIC unique that it has more customization options vs locked omnipods. Not only that, but it has 2 lore friendly variants that already use civil war era tech. Leaving the RFL-IIC to have 4 MW:O lore friendly variants for mechpacks + whatever hero PGI designs for the chassis.


Now let's review:


- It's a clan 65 ton battlemech. With the standard stock engine it acts more like a 65 ton pocket assault mech. It can dish out some mean damage and tank for it's weight class.

- High arm mounts. The standard configuration offers 4 x Clan Large Pulse Lasers, while a single ER medium laser in the head. That gives the prime a grand total of 5 high energy hard points with Jump Jet capabilities.

- Upgrading engine capabilities. Throw a clan XL engine in this bad boy and now it can go up to 64.8 kmph to possibly 70+ kmph. Want to tank more? stick with the clan standard engine and support your assault buddies. IMO, the community acts like the 54 kmph will kill this mech. I guarantee it won't by any means.

I say 70+ kmph as loosely as possible because this will all depend of the engine cap that PGI will decide to give the mech. I have high hopes for this since they gave the Annihilator a decent engine cap, so expect an XL 340 at the very most.

- Jump Jets. This was supposed to help with the slower mobility of the original concept of the Prime. In the world of MW:O, this will make it an effective hill peaker. Remove the JJ's for more heatsinks or throw in a targeting computer.

- Multiple lore variants to choose from. The Rifleman IIC has 4 different canon friendly variants that syncs nicely with the Civil War era timeline. Variant 3 introduces a nice mix of ballistics + energy hard points (2 x Heavy Large Lasers + 2 Ultra Auto Cannon 2's). Variant 4 mixes energy with missiles ( 2 x c Large Pulse Lasers + 2 ATM9's). Don't forget to include whatever hero PGI makes up for the mech.

- A viable option for drop decks in FW. Since the mech fills in the 65 ton slot, you can now decide to save the extra tonnages with a clan battlemech as opposed to the Orion IIC, which is locked at 75 tons. The only other options in the heavy bracket now are all clan Omnimechs. The Rifleman IIC would be the second clan heavy battlemech in game.


Now for the TL:DR.



A great, viable clan battlemech with jump jets, BAP and high weapon mounts. What more could you want?


If you like what you have read here, be sure to head over to Twitter and like this tweet from Roderick Steiner. Making a Twitter account is easy, and Russ Bullock will surely see that people want this mech in MW:O.



https://twitter.com/...802799837630464


And finally a fun little fact:

The original IS Rifleman has a Garret T11-A radar tracking system, similar to an IRL US naval warship's radar system array.






While in contrast, the Rifleman IIC's radar dish "hat" is more akin to a Boeing E3 Sentry's aerial radar dish. Both radars on each mech function in circular rotation (while the IS Rifleman's is clearly more visible, the Rifleman IIC's is enclosed in the disc that rotates on two support pylons on it's head).

The Rifelman IIC absolutely DOMINATED in MW2:31st Cent. Combat with 4x LPL or 4x ERLL - it was far and away my favorite mech in that game, and I always told myself I would LOVE to see it with the rich, visually stimulating art PGI has used to recreate mechs in MWO.

I used to salivate at the idea of PGI releasing a Rifleman IIC, that was until I actually piloted the IS Rifleman - straight up hot-summer-chinatown-garbage water. I'm almost scared that if PGI releases the Rifleman IIC, and it sucks as much as the IS counterpart, then my nostalgic adoration for this mech may die

Edited by AphexTwin11, 14 June 2017 - 06:26 AM.

[process]

I just can't say 'no' to more turret mechs.

[Mister Blastman]

[Metus regem]

Kasumi Sumika, on 13 June 2017 - 11:59 PM, said:

I'm still waiting for Warhammer IIC.

I'm more of a WHM-IIC-4 fan as she is 80t of F-U.




Warhammer IIC 4

• The IIC 3 was not well-received by the Clan's buyers, so they went back to the drawing board and devoted a significant amount of energy and resources to this variant. Almost completely reworked from the ground up, the IIC 4 has a different aesthetic from the original, but its communication systems and weapons have been upgraded to top-of-the-line models, unlike the traditional view of second-line 'Mechs. The old ER PPCs were swapped out for a pair of new Type DDS "Kingston" models, while the secondary weapons were stripped out. They were replaced by a pair of System 4 ATM-6 launchers and a Series 1 Mk. III ER Small Laser.

As for being on topic, eh, why not the Riflemen IIC, it'd just be another meta peak and poke Clan mech that runs 4 LPL.

[Bishop Steiner]

Juodas Varnas, on 13 June 2017 - 09:59 PM, said:

To hell with your silly Sombrero mech!

Gib Scorpion instead!

jus gonna leave dis here.....

[Valdarion Silarius]

Tincan Nightmare, on 14 June 2017 - 12:19 AM, said:

Umm so did the Mad Dog, Timber Wolf, and Summoner get removed from the game, pretty sure they are all heavies as well. Not to mention the Night Gyr, and the soon to be released Nova Cat, which would hit before any Rifleman IIC since it's already being put in the game while the Rifleman IIC hasn't even been announced yet. That's more like 10 Clan heavies that are in the game. If you mean non-Omnimech heavy, well then yes it would be the second 'standard' battlemech for the Clans, but it's not exactly a low populated weight class.

Not that I'm against the Rifleman IIC, though it's ironic that you would actually see this mech being played with it's Clan tech versus the scarcely seen IS models.

edit* Oh and the only thing it offers is just pretty much more laservomit, nothing unique about that.

Not true. If you even bothered to take a look at the variants on the mech list you would know that the RFL-IIC 2 is a ballistics boat. With the upcoming civil war tech, variant 3 will be a mixture of ballistics + energy. Variant 4 is a mix of missiles + energy. So the only true laser vomit builds for the RFL-IIC is the prime and variants 5 & 7 (which 5 and 7 will not be in game since it uses improved jump jets and plasma cannons).

Going beyond the civil war tech era variants 6 and 8 are more of a diverse mix of weaponry. Arguably the best stock builds for the mech are the Prime and 8. However, there will be some very interesting builds to come from the RFL-IIC since it has both long range support and brawling capabilities.

[Will9761]

Well, I did my part and retweeted the Rifleman IIC tweet.

[Khalcruth]

Let's see...

Any IS mech made pre-3025 - artwork can be used in MWO, Mechwarrior 5, and can be sold for use by Harebrained Schemes.
Any IS mech made post 3025 - artwork can be used only in MWO
Any Clan mech - artwork can be used only in MWO

Financially, producing any IIC mechs seems like a bad use of resources. I'd suggest more pre-3025 IS mechs, it kills 3 birds with one stone.

[Battlemaster56]

Khalcruth, on 14 June 2017 - 08:59 AM, said:

Let's see...

Any IS mech made pre-3025 - artwork can be used in MWO, Mechwarrior 5, and can be sold for use by Harebrained Schemes.
Any IS mech made post 3025 - artwork can be used only in MWO
Any Clan mech - artwork can be used only in MWO

Financially, producing any IIC mechs seems like a bad use of resources. I'd suggest more pre-3025 IS mechs, it kills 3 birds with one stone.

Or just contuine making mechs and not screw one side because "financially" only Inner Sphere mechs within said timeline will make money, do we even have the numbers to prove this or just pulling out the box?

[C E Dwyer]

Burn it with fire !

[Valdarion Silarius]

Will9761, on 14 June 2017 - 08:22 AM, said:

Well, I did my part and retweeted the Rifleman IIC tweet.

Thanks friend. Much obliged.

[Juodas Varnas]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 June 2017 - 07:36 AM, said:

jus gonna leave dis here.....

[Battlemaster56]

Hey Arnold!

Have you found someone who can draw up the Rifleman IIC, be t nice to see someone else artwork (Make sure to credit the person if do so) of the mech and could attract more people to the thread, since mechpr0n is always on a high demand.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Battlemaster56, on 14 June 2017 - 11:03 AM, said:

Hey Arnold!

Have you found someone who can draw up the Rifleman IIC, be t nice to see someone else artwork (Make sure to credit the person if do so) of the mech and could attract more people to the thread, since mechpr0n is always on a high demand.

In the artwork style of MW:O? Nah man I wish. I was pestering Bishop Steiner to draw it in the MW:O format, but I don't think he was too interested. I'll probably bump the thread with more RFL-IIC goodness later on though.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 14 June 2017 - 12:14 PM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

General Pete, on 14 June 2017 - 03:56 AM, said:

I remember the Rifleman IIC being a terror on the tabletop back in the day. It would be more laser vomit in MWO, but I agree it should be included. It's not the original Rifleman at all, and people who enjoy their Rifleman can still pilot the old reliable.

But howabout the Glass Spider??

The Glass Spider (Galahad) is a good mech no doubt. There are only two problems that I see with it though.

1. There are only three canon variants of it in Battletech. Two of which are pure laser vomit mechs and 1 that is a pure ballistics boat (the prime version). As opposed to the Rifleman IIC, which has more lore friendly variants that sync very will with the new upcoming civil war era tech. PGI would have to make a hero variant and would have to compensate players for the lack of lore variants that the Glass Spider has.

The Rifleman IIC can do everything that a Glass Spider can plus offer more mech variety for standard packs (classic RFL-IIC prime + 2), collectors pack (new civil war era mechs such as variant 3 and 4), and whatever PGI made up hero they choose for the mech. PGI would have to make up either 1 or 2 new unfriendly lore variants for the Glass Spider to compensate the collectors, and make up a brand new hero mech for it. Too many lore unfriendly chassis's do not sit well with this community.

2. It's not as well known as the Rifleman IIC, so therefore in return less sales from the nostalgia crowd. On top of that it has slightly less armor and equipment options. While I know that the Glass Spider has a better movement profile (6/4/6 or 64.2 kmph vs 5/3/5 or 54 kmph), the Rifleman IIC's movement profile should not be a deterrent since it's engine can be upgraded to an XL. The Glass Spider is like the Rifleman IIC's little brother, 60 tons vs 65 tons. It was very formidable on table top, and all around a very decent mech in battletech. However, I think PGI is more interested in making money with a mech that melds well with the civil war era tech vs a mech that 2 energy boats + 1 ballistic that will suffer from lore unfriendly syndrome.