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Patch Notes - 1.4.120 - 20-Jun-2017


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#261 MrJeffers

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 06:40 AM

1) Nerf existing tech to lame levels
2) introduce "new" tech with previous tech level stats
3) Profit.

#262 Steinkrieg

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:45 AM

Besides all of the other malarkey in this patch, the banning of Champion and Hero mechs from Competitive play is ridiculous. I bought those mechs to be used in every aspect of the game. There was no indication that those mechs would be banned from any play mode. I swear it's like Darth Vader is the CEO and saying pray I don't alter the terms further.

Easy solution - make all the pay mechs available for quadruple their value of C-Bills. For example:

Jade Kite is around 7100MC for purchase now. If you were to buy C-Bills with MC at the best value option of 4000MC for 6,500,000 C-Bills, you have a value of 1MC = 1,625 C-Bills. This makes the Jade Kite roughly equal 11,537,500 C-Bills. Quadruple that and you have 46,150,000 C-Bills.

I think this is a fair way to allow people to use the mechs that they purchased with real money with the understanding that they would be able to play those mechs in any play mode in Competitive Play.

#263 Alvar Von Kenesthor

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:59 AM

View PostSteinkrieg, on 19 June 2017 - 07:45 AM, said:

Besides all of the other malarkey in this patch, the banning of Champion and Hero mechs from Competitive play is ridiculous. I bought those mechs to be used in every aspect of the game. There was no indication that those mechs would be banned from any play mode. I swear it's like Darth Vader is the CEO and saying pray I don't alter the terms further.

Easy solution - make all the pay mechs available for quadruple their value of C-Bills. For example:

Jade Kite is around 7100MC for purchase now. If you were to buy C-Bills with MC at the best value option of 4000MC for 6,500,000 C-Bills, you have a value of 1MC = 1,625 C-Bills. This makes the Jade Kite roughly equal 11,537,500 C-Bills. Quadruple that and you have 46,150,000 C-Bills.

I think this is a fair way to allow people to use the mechs that they purchased with real money with the understanding that they would be able to play those mechs in any play mode in Competitive Play.

It's an amazingly good idea, the problem is that it hasnt been too long since the skill tree intro and the massive refunds, but some people have already melted that money.
People who bought those mechs with real money will cry about that exclusivity being lost, and F2P players will argue that the price is too high, spliting even more the community.

It's true that heroes arent any close to being overpowered, some being even worse than the base chassis, but if they were to add them into the competitive, those would still be mechs locked behind paywalls, something that a competitive game should never have

#264 Obeast

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:03 AM

View PostMrJeffers, on 19 June 2017 - 06:40 AM, said:

1) Nerf existing tech to lame levels
2) introduce "new" tech with previous tech level stats
3) Profit.



Bingo

#265 Steinkrieg

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:11 AM

View PostAlvar Von Kenesthor, on 19 June 2017 - 07:59 AM, said:

It's an amazingly good idea, the problem is that it hasnt been too long since the skill tree intro and the massive refunds, but some people have already melted that money.
People who bought those mechs with real money will cry about that exclusivity being lost, and F2P players will argue that the price is too high, spliting even more the community.

It's true that heroes arent any close to being overpowered, some being even worse than the base chassis, but if they were to add them into the competitive, those would still be mechs locked behind paywalls, something that a competitive game should never have


The reason I suggested a higher C-Bill value was to maintain that exclusivity as well as making it enough of a grind to get them via C-Bills that the people who paid for them with real money wouldn't feel like they are getting shafted. I have the following heros - Pirate's Bane, Ember, X-5, Medusa, St. Ives, Yen-lo Wang, Golden Boy, Pahket, Grey Death, Fang, Flame, Firebrand, Redline, Ilya Muromets, Tempest, Dragon Slayer, Hellslinger, Misery, Scorch, Boiler, and Heavy Metal. I would feel in no way shafted by PGI if they made them available for a large C-Bill purchase as I suggested above.

Edited by Steinkrieg, 19 June 2017 - 08:17 AM.


#266 MovinTarget

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:59 AM

View PostSteinkrieg, on 19 June 2017 - 07:45 AM, said:

Besides all of the other malarkey in this patch, the banning of Champion and Hero mechs from Competitive play is ridiculous. I bought those mechs to be used in every aspect of the game. There was no indication that those mechs would be banned from any play mode. I swear it's like Darth Vader is the CEO and saying pray I don't alter the terms further.

Easy solution - make all the pay mechs available for quadruple their value of C-Bills. For example:


Easy solution is to make comp modes only rewards be getting "comp games" or leaderboard end-of-season rewards.

In other words, playing an individual Comp drop should be just like playing in private lobby - no cbill/xp/achievement rewards. If they made it so that consumables were free like a private lobby, so much the better.

But if they want the comp mode to attract competitors, make it not profitable. Make it about competition. then your S/L/C mechs that have cbill equivalents can be legal and not used solely to farm bonuses (if that was the concern).

I'm fine with excluding trial mechs (how many are really competetive) and Heroes (not cbill accessible).

This will open up more mechs for players that bought bundles and packs where 1-2 out of 3 mechs would otherwise be disqualified.

For example: IS Bundles typically have one hero, one champion and one other chassis. If you built your collection from such bundles, 2/3 of your mechs are unusable in comp play.

Bought other mech packs? if it was Clan Wave I through, what, Resistance II? All your mechs are cbill accessible, but 1/3 will be unplayable since they have the (S) variant.

#267 Extra Guac

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 09:06 AM

They should let us sell Hero mechs for 90% of the original MC purchase price. At least as a one-time option coinciding with the start of comp play.

#268 Steinkrieg

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 09:08 AM

No. Mechs are bought with the understanding that all mechs you bought would be available for all play modes. All play modes need to have all mechs available that a player owns. Trial mechs would not be considered because the player has not bought them.

For the life of me I will never understand why PGI does not look at other popular comp games like LoL and just steal what they are doing.

#269 MovinTarget

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 09:17 AM

View PostSteinkrieg, on 19 June 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

No. Mechs are bought with the understanding that all mechs you bought would be available for all play modes. All play modes need to have all mechs available that a player owns. Trial mechs would not be considered because the player has not bought them.

For the life of me I will never understand why PGI does not look at other popular comp games like LoL and just steal what they are doing.


If Heroes are included there is a potential for P2W accusations since some team could figure out loadouts that non-hero owners would not be able to emulate.

So I get the "no heroes" clause, but for a competitive mode, anything that is cbill-accessible should be fair game.

#270 SilentScreamer

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 10:07 AM

Finally read through all the patch notes.
- Private lobby and comp mode; good, although I doubt I will use either much.
- Specialize lasers by type and class...I definately will have to play before giving an opinion.
- Quirk changes....looks like several mechs were turned upside-down...ugh.
- Transfering group leadership by dragging an icon in the group lobby? +1,000

#271 Shimmering Sword

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 10:20 AM

View PostEd Steele, on 18 June 2017 - 06:33 PM, said:

Don't give me the "I'm a tier 1 either" it is easy to get carried to tier 1 in a good group.


Sorry to break it to you mate, but I wasn't carried, I'm usually top or 2nd top damage in my groups. I carry other people to T1, and I got there before the "you'll get there inevitably" time frame hit.
I will at least assume you're also T1 even if you hide it, as you'd be a joker if you think a player stuck in T2 or lower stands a chance.
I digress though, I don't get caught up on tier like you jumped to.

Clan mechs are better then IS mechs on average, it's an irrefutable fact. Match compositions wouldn't be 75% or more Clan mechs if it were otherwise. They need to be nerfed, and anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't have the health of the game in their interests.
And Clans being OP in the lore can go to hell, this is a multiplayer focused game. If you want lore first, go play tabletop.

#272 NocturnalBeast

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 10:40 AM

View PostShimmering Sword, on 19 June 2017 - 10:20 AM, said:


Sorry to break it to you mate, but I wasn't carried, I'm usually top or 2nd top damage in my groups. I carry other people to T1, and I got there before the "you'll get there inevitably" time frame hit.
I will at least assume you're also T1 even if you hide it, as you'd be a joker if you think a player stuck in T2 or lower stands a chance.
I digress though, I don't get caught up on tier like you jumped to.

Clan mechs are better then IS mechs on average, it's an irrefutable fact. Match compositions wouldn't be 75% or more Clan mechs if it were otherwise. They need to be nerfed, and anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't have the health of the game in their interests.
And Clans being OP in the lore can go to hell, this is a multiplayer focused game. If you want lore first, go play tabletop.


I am tier 3 and the reason I hide my tier is because the game is less fun when I am constantly focused on it. As for lore, I do and always will expect "A BATTLETECH GAME" to be closer to lore than not. And yes, I would still play IS Mechs even if Clan Mechs were what they should be. As for top-comp players, it is their positioning and teamwork that wins the games more than the individual Mechs. Comp teams also choose specific Mechs that compliment each other, which rarely if ever happens in solo Quick Play.

Edited by Ed Steele, 19 June 2017 - 11:12 AM.


#273 Steinkrieg

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 10:40 AM

View PostMovinTarget, on 19 June 2017 - 09:17 AM, said:


If Heroes are included there is a potential for P2W accusations since some team could figure out loadouts that non-hero owners would not be able to emulate.

So I get the "no heroes" clause, but for a competitive mode, anything that is cbill-accessible should be fair game.


No. You don't get anything. You're so busy being a PGI yes man that you cannot step back and look at what other games that are massively successful do and then compare that to what PGI is doing and then objectively come to the conclusion that PGI has no idea how to balance a game or do competitive play modes. That is why you make Heroes available for C-Bill purchase, albeit at a higher cost. There is a reason Riot Games is so successful. You can buy any Champion for cash or for in game earned currency. The LoL 2016 World Championships had $5,070,000.00 in prize money. Over 100 million people play the game. They've awarded over $41million in 1869 tournaments since 2009.

PGI should be looking at what Riot Games does and doing their best to emulate it, not doing the opposite of what Riot Games does and expecting it to work. Riot Games lets the players self balance in ranked play by allowing teams to ban certain Champions pre-match. Allow us, as the players, to ban certain mechs, not impose a blanket ban on certain types of mechs because people paid real money for them. Hell, half the mechs that will be used in comp play were probably pre-ordered anyway, but fall before the date they listed. Limiting the play of mechs that actively fund the game is stupid.

The bottom line is this: You limit the playability, you limit the participation. You limit the participation, you limit the purchases. You limit the purchases, you limit the profit. You limit the profit, you limit what PGI can do with the game in the future. What do you people not understand? What does PGI not understand?

PGI has finally seen the light with the private lobby. How long will it take for PGI to realize the above and finally do something about allowing Hero mechs and Champion mechs in competitive play? 1 year? 3 years?

#274 MovinTarget

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:23 AM

View PostSteinkrieg, on 19 June 2017 - 10:40 AM, said:


No. You don't get anything. You're so busy being a PGI yes man



FYI stopped reading after this because you obviously don't know me. jfyi, so if you said something useful, you'll need to TL;DR it for me.

Considering I'm criticizing their decision to exclude (S), (L), and (C) variants that are cbill accessible, I don't understand how I can be considered a "yes man" unless you define "yes man" as someone that doesn't agree with you implicitly.

Including heroes creates an explicit imbalance of haves and have-nots that, should any paywalled mechs be found to be P2W, would invalidate any attempt at fairness the comp mode could offer.

At least with all cbill purchasble mechs being in play, all builds that rise to the top will be universally accessible without paying a cent to PGI.

Edit:
Okay, now that I said my piece, I did go back and read your post. I never said anything about not making heroes being accessible by cbill. If they make all paywall mechs available to cbills, fine by me. I'm stating that if nothing else changes (i.e. tearing down the paywall) then you cannot not include paywall-only mechs.

Edited by MovinTarget, 19 June 2017 - 11:28 AM.


#275 Steinkrieg

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:28 AM

No, you just need to read what I wrote. If you don't want to, then that's your loss.

EDIT:

Now that you've read what I wrote, you OP response never had any agreement with making Heroes available for c-bill purchase, only that you were fine with excluding Heroes, which led to all of my other responses.

Edited by Steinkrieg, 19 June 2017 - 11:36 AM.


#276 MovinTarget

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:40 AM

View PostSteinkrieg, on 19 June 2017 - 11:28 AM, said:

No, you just need to read what I wrote. If you don't want to, then that's your loss.

EDIT:

Now that you've read what I wrote, you OP response never had any agreement with making Heroes available for c-bill purchase, only that you were fine with excluding Heroes, which led to all of my other responses.


That won't resolve anything since the have-nots will just soft ban the mechs they can't afford to play.

Further, I am unfamiliar with your example. Are riot games f2p as well?

I have no problem with you other than accusing me of being a PGI Yes Man. let that go and we can be civil.

#277 Steinkrieg

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:49 AM

You play computer games and you are unfamiliar with Riot Games and League of Legends...

#278 MovinTarget

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:54 AM

View PostSteinkrieg, on 19 June 2017 - 11:49 AM, said:

You play computer games and you are unfamiliar with Riot Games and League of Legends...


I know LoL but never played it. My apologies for letting you down in your expectation of how universally known some title is...

So what would you say if the have-nots soft-banned heroes implicitly?

Also, if its such a good idea, why doesn't MRBC allow Heroes and other mechs not accessible via cbills?

The idea is to have a level playing field so there is some semblance of fairness. To your point, Loyalist Davions should be screaming up and down that they haven't been able to drop in their Timbies in FP for the past 2.5 years...

Because you're primary contention is that if someone paid for mechs, they should not be denied their usage in any mode, correct? I want to make sure I have that correct.

Edited by MovinTarget, 19 June 2017 - 12:03 PM.


#279 Steinkrieg

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:08 PM

Considering it is THE game for eSports and THE game that devs who want to get into eSports generally look to for inspiration...


If the have-nots are banning heroes because they don't have them, then fine by me. Most heroes are not the best iteration of a particular mech. They'd be better off banning the slew of Night Gyrs variants and the KDK-3 instead of a Jade Kite and a Spirit Bear. Truly competitive teams will target the mechs that play the best to the comp meta.

The main idea that all of my posts have had is that PGI makes heroes (all pay mechs, really) available for comp play via c-bill purchase. MRBC is unofficial and therefore should have no bearing on what PGI does in regards to official comp mode and making all pay mechs available for C-bill purchase.

Edited by Steinkrieg, 19 June 2017 - 12:09 PM.


#280 MovinTarget

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:19 PM

View PostSteinkrieg, on 19 June 2017 - 12:08 PM, said:

Considering it is THE game for eSports and THE game that devs who want to get into eSports generally look to for inspiration...


If the have-nots are banning heroes because they don't have them, then fine by me. Most heroes are not the best iteration of a particular mech. They'd be better off banning the slew of Night Gyrs variants and the KDK-3 instead of a Jade Kite and a Spirit Bear. Truly competitive teams will target the mechs that play the best to the comp meta.

The main idea that all of my posts have had is that PGI makes heroes (all pay mechs, really) available for comp play via c-bill purchase. MRBC is unofficial and therefore should have no bearing on what PGI does in regards to official comp mode and making all pay mechs available for C-bill purchase.



But still, you feel that no purchased mech should be prevented to participate in a game mode simply because of how it is purchased? Since I may have missed the point initially, (being needlessly insulted will do that) I want to make sure I do have the jist of your argument.


To your point about Night Gyrs and KDKs, apart from their Heroes, there is no reason not to bring them if they are your best mechs, just as there is every reason to expect to see them on the other side. They are universally accessible.

My concern is that the next Oxide/Huginn/GridIron (perhaps to a lesser degree) doesn't sneak in and wreck competition. Unless your model is completely implented, this would be nightmarish because you'd have to deal with them running amok until PGI did something about it that would invariably piss off the people that bought them (possibly because they were OP). So, I would be curious if they could build it out, but anything less would be a no-go in my book.

My point about MRBC was simply that it is the only comp scene I've been involved with and I've not heard much blowback that they've banned all mechs not cbill accessible.

Edited by MovinTarget, 19 June 2017 - 12:22 PM.






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