67 replies to this topic

[Antares102]

Now that the CSPL are at 4 damage can we please have a ghost heat limit of something like 8?
If the ghost heat limit of 6 persists than you can only do an alpha of 24.
Compared to IS SPL which has no ghost heat limit this is really unacceptable.

[Jay Leon Hart]

I'ma leave this here...

Jay Leon Hart, on 17 June 2017 - 12:48 AM, said:

IS Small Laser, no GH cap, hardpoint limit effectively 8, total damage = 24
Clan ER Small Laser, GH of 6, total damage = 30
Winner = Clan

IS Small Pulse Laser, no GH cap, hardpoint limit effectively 8, total damage = 28
Clan Small Pulse Laser, GH of 6, total damage = 24
Winner = IS

IS Medium Laser, GH of 6, total damage = 30
Clan ER Medium Laser, GH of 6, total damage = 42
Winner = Clan

IS Medium Pulse Laser, GH of 6, total damage = 36
Clan Medium Pulse Laser, GH of , total damage = 45
Winner = Clan

IS (ER) Large Laser, GH of 3, total damage = 27
Clan ER Large Laser, GH of 2, total damage = 22
Winner = IS

IS Large Pulse Laser, GH of 3, total damage = 30
Clan Large Pulse Laser, GH of 2, total damage = 24
Winner = IS

IS (ER) PPC, GH of 2, total damage = 20
Clan ER PPC, GH of 2, total damage = 20/25/30
Winner = Clan

So each has their own best Small class laser - "regular" for Clan, Pulse for IS (but only when IS brings more)
Clan has better Medium class lasers
IS has better Large class lasers (but only when IS brings more)
Clan has better PPCs

I'd say Clan are doing ok.

[JohnnyWayne]

Thats nice of you @Jay Leon Hearth. Now, bring in values for range, max range, heat, duration and cooldown. And then we will see how wrong you are.

[El Bandito]

Antares102, on 17 June 2017 - 01:19 AM, said:

Now that the CSPL are at 4 damage can we please have a ghost heat limit of something like 8?
If the ghost heat limit of 6 persists than you can only do an alpha of 24.
Compared to IS SPL which has no ghost heat limit this is really unacceptable.

Now count the number of IS variants that can equip 8 SPLs, and are fast enough to make their pathetic 110 meter base range work. Boated IS SPLs will never become meta, even without GH limit.

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 01:28 AM, said:

Thats nice of you @Jay Leon Hearth. Now, bring in values for range, max range, heat, duration and cooldown. And then we will see how wrong you are.

CSPL is still overall better than IS SPL, all factors considered. Mostly due to superior range.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 June 2017 - 01:51 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 01:28 AM, said:

Thats nice of you @Jay Leon Hearth. Now, bring in values for range, max range, heat, duration and cooldown. And then we will see how wrong you are.

Maybe later. I was just quick-quoting from Gyrok's whine thread about Large Laser GH limits, figured it was applicable to a whine thread about Small Pulse GH limits.

Or, do it yourself, since I don't care you can't see Clan still have better damage capabilities at longer range and likely always will.

[JohnnyWayne]

I dont give a ****, they nerfed every clan light to the ground.

Lights overall need a buff and I am not talking about armor, like these 70 CT wolfhounds. This **** needs to be fixed right away.

It is inacceptable that they keep on nerfing lights just because of bad players.


Oh and no, CSPL is worse. Why? Because IS mechs run faster and barely need to aim to ge a full alpha in a place. Their duration/heat combination makes them strong, not their damage. Once again DPS over damage alone. As pointed out in another thread.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 17 June 2017 - 01:57 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 01:56 AM, said:

It is inacceptable that they keep on nerfing lights just because of bad players.

This I agree with, but Clan Lights are still > IS Lights. My ACHs, KFXs and ADRs see a lot more play time than my LCTs, FS9s, RVNs and WLFs.

[Shifty McSwift]

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 01:56 AM, said:

I dont give a ****, they nerfed every clan light to the ground.

Lights overall need a buff and I am not talking about armor, like these 70 CT wolfhounds. This **** needs to be fixed right away.

It is inacceptable that they keep on nerfing lights just because of bad players.


Oh and no, CSPL is worse. Why? Because IS mechs run faster and barely need to aim to ge a full alpha in a place. Their duration/heat combination makes them strong, not their damage. Once again DPS over damage alone. As pointed out in another thread.

That argument seems illogical, why would they nerf lights due to bad players? Wouldn't they nerf lights due what they perceive as them being in a good or overperforming position? It might not be the case, but just logically, how do you get nerf to lights = blame bad light players?

Also IS faster than Clan? I don't think so, maybe in some cases, but it becomes pretty clear by the time you get to clan assaults vs IS assaults that clans are in general, much faster movers.

[JohnnyWayne]

Pretty much the only valid light mech on clan side is the ACH maybe the Jenner IIC.

As sad as it sounds the only valid light mech on IS side I have seen is the locust and that one dies too easily to a random gauss round. Next best light is the regular Jenner.

Shifty McSwift, on 17 June 2017 - 02:02 AM, said:

That argument seems illogical, why would they nerf lights due to bad players? Wouldn't they nerf lights due what they perceive as them being in a good or overperforming position? It might not be the case, but just logically, how do you get nerf to lights = blame bad light players?

Also IS faster than Clan? I don't think so, maybe in some cases, but it becomes pretty clear by the time you get to clan assaults vs IS assaults that clans are in general, much faster movers.

Is that sarcasm? We are talking about PGI here. Ok I'll explain it, if its not sarcasm.

Bad players complain about lights being OP farming their missile boats (usually atlasses). PGI reacts by nefing lights. All clan lights were basically balanced around CSPL.

And yes, all IS lights are faster than clan lights. Because they can easily mount a larger engine. Only exception might be the Jenner IIC.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 17 June 2017 - 02:06 AM.

[El Bandito]

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 02:02 AM, said:

Bad players complain about lights being OP farming their missile boats (usually atlasses). PGI reacts by nefing lights. All clan lights were basically balanced around CSPL.

I can throw that argument over its head by saying that bad Light players complain about keep dying to LRMs. PGI reacts by nerfing LRM5 even more and buffing AMS.

[Jay Leon Hart]

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 02:02 AM, said:

And yes, all IS lights are faster than clan lights. Because they can easily mount a larger engine. Only exception might be the Jenner IIC.

And *then* we get into the Clan XL vs IS XL debate, where Clan wins 100% of the time. So, trade-offs.

[JohnnyWayne]

Yeah which will be coutnered with 70 CT armor on IS light mechs. LFE is coming up too. Maybe IS lights will be as fast as clan ones then.

[Kaeb Odellas]

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 01:28 AM, said:

Thats nice of you @Jay Leon Hearth. Now, bring in values for range, max range, heat, duration and cooldown. And then we will see how wrong you are.

Here's a 1:1 comparison for SPLs

6 IS Small Pulse lasers:
Alpha: 21
Heat: 12
Duration: 0.5
Cooldown: 2
Range: 110 optimal, 220 max


6 Clan Small Pulse Laser
Alpha: 24
Heat: 16.2
Duration: 0.6
Cooldown: 2
Range: 165 optimal, 297 max

This seems a fair trade-off. CSPLs are effectively ERSPLs. More range and damage for more heat and slightly higher duration.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 17 June 2017 - 02:32 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

El Bandito, on 17 June 2017 - 02:11 AM, said:

I can throw that argument over its head by saying that bad Light players complain about keep dying to LRMs. PGI reacts by nerfing LRM5 even more and buffing AMS.

How dare you use his own silly reasoning against him. Nerf bandito because of bad banditos.

[JohnnyWayne]

I like how you spread wrong facts. Like the 0.6 laser duration on cSPL. Oh I'm sorry these are called "alternative" nowadays, right? It is 0.75 btw. 0.6 maybe with skill tree, but these are modifcations you ignore when balancing weaponsystems.

IS mechs are generally better quirked compared to the not quirked clan mechs. Did i mention that battlemechs are more customizable? What a joke. Also compare IS small pulse to IS mediums and tell me whats better after the patch.

Shifty McSwift, on 17 June 2017 - 02:27 AM, said:

How dare you use his own silly reasoning against him. Nerf bandito because of bad banditos.

I didnt even read that. LRM nerfs have nothing to do with light mechs. Sorry. These come by trollboat players that are still around.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 17 June 2017 - 02:41 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 01:56 AM, said:

Oh and no, CSPL is worse. Why? Because IS mechs run faster and barely need to aim to ge a full alpha in a place. Their duration/heat combination makes them strong, not their damage. Once again DPS over damage alone. As pointed out in another thread.

Erm...



You sure about that? Last I checked, 1.54 is more than 1.40.

Feel free to prove how wrong I am.

[El Bandito]

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 02:30 AM, said:

I like how you spread wrong facts. Like the 0.6 laser duration on cSPL. Oh I'm sorry these are called "alternative" nowadays, right? It is 0.75 btw.

Read the patch note you silly goosewaffle. https://mwomercs.com...120-20-jun-2017

Quote

Clan Small Pulse Laser
• Damage reduced to 4 (From 6) • Heat reduced to 2.7 (From 3) • Cooldown duration reduced to 2 (From 2.25) • Duration reduced to 0.6 (From 0.75)

Edited by El Bandito, 17 June 2017 - 02:42 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 02:30 AM, said:

I like how you spread wrong facts. Like the 0.6 laser duration on cSPL. Oh I'm sorry these are called "alternative" nowadays, right? It is 0.75 btw. 0.6 maybe with skill tree, but these are modifcations you ignore when balancing weaponsystems.

You should probably stop posting until *after* you read the patch notes, this is embarrassing...

Quote

Clan Small Pulse Laser

• Damage reduced to 4 (From 6)
• Heat reduced to 2.7 (From 3)
• Cooldown duration reduced to 2 (From 2.25)
• Duration reduced to 0.6 (From 0.75)

[JohnnyWayne]

RIght I have seen that just a second ago.

Emberassing is, that you ignore all the quirks IS mechs have compared to clan mechs. Moreover you are extremely fixed on clan vs IS for your bitterness as reason, where I stated before that ALL light mechs need changes to adjust to their role as striker in a hit and run manner again.
All you tried to do is to push me into a corner for your IS vs clan argumentation.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 17 June 2017 - 02:40 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

I think he thinks the patch is out now