211 replies to this topic

[Alienized]

and that was exactly the answer i expected to see.

[MovinTarget]

Shino Tenshi, on 28 June 2017 - 06:07 AM, said:

I wish there was still one I could direct you to, but anytime I see reference to one being still up and running it's down by the time I get there. I disappeared from the scene a number of years ago so I'm not sure exactly when they died, but they were starting to be on a serious decline as of 2005.

I actually just yesterday came across the old basic training docs for the original and longest lasting of the old MUXes. You can find it at http://mekcity.com/m...3/lesson3-1.php if you're interested. It won't give any sense for what FW (called RealSpace back in the day) was like, but will give a basic understanding of what it was like to pilot a mech and how the text based environment was handled.

I still keep hoping one will pop back up. If anyone ever did put one back up, I'd be happy to help on the admin side. Seeing how many people here in the MWO forums really want a solid FW, makes me wonder if there'd be enough interest to at least get one MUX properly running.

Again, the inherent problem is that everyone has their own idea of what things should be like. Some people would love the MUXES exactly b/c it was text-based allowing their own imagination to flesh out their vision of implementation whereas others want this all done graphically like in a video game with which they are able to interact via a GUI.

It's the old "read the book" vs "Watch the Movie" argument, but applied to BT.

[NocturnalBeast]

MovinTarget, on 28 June 2017 - 08:33 AM, said:

Again, the inherent problem is that everyone has their own idea of what things should be like. Some people would love the MUXES exactly b/c it was text-based allowing their own imagination to flesh out their vision of implementation whereas others want this all done graphically like in a video game with which they are able to interact via a GUI.

It's the old "read the book" vs "Watch the Movie" argument, but applied to BT.

That is why PGI needed to have a clear plan for what this game was supposed to be and that they should have stuck to it with only minor deviations only if something proved to be technically unfeasable. Buffing / nerfing and changing things to quiet the sqeakiest wheel of the month does not make the game better. REALLY the reason why there is so much less "salt" and more good will towards HBS and BATTLETECH is because they have been very clear about their plan and what will be in the game and everytime, someone complains, or wants them to change something, they politely point them to the roadmap and say that they are focused on delivering what they promised and will consider other things if the final product does well.

Edited by Ed Steele, 28 June 2017 - 08:45 AM.

[Shino Tenshi]

MovinTarget, on 28 June 2017 - 08:33 AM, said:

Again, the inherent problem is that everyone has their own idea of what things should be like. Some people would love the MUXES exactly b/c it was text-based allowing their own imagination to flesh out their vision of implementation whereas others want this all done graphically like in a video game with which they are able to interact via a GUI.

It's the old "read the book" vs "Watch the Movie" argument, but applied to BT.

That's certainly a problem that I've seen. Though I'd think most people would be happy to have the graphical aspect vs. the text based aspect of MUXes. Personally I've been holding onto a 20+ year fantasy of someone creating a graphical version of the RealSpace environment. What we have here in FW is the closest anyone's ever gotten (AFAIK, anyway) to doing so, so I stick around and enjoy what there is. It's not RealSpace by any stretch, but at least it's the closest/best we've gotten to having our battles make a difference to the game environment.

Given the choice, I personally still prefer the MUX system just because of the sheer amount of extra depth to the FW system in any of the ones I've ever played. My hope is that one day PGI will be able to get MWO to state where there's enough content in FW to sway my preference.

I think it's possible to get a solid FW system in place into MWO, but between the lack of community support (as in the less hardcore players) and focus/direction from PGI on FW, I don't think it will ever happen. I still keep my hopes up that one day we'll at least get to a point where there's some star map logistics and other meaningful game modes. Scouting, IMO, is one of the best features PGI has put out to add some depth to FW. I wish more people would treat it as it's own game mode and not a 4v4 match, but that's a different conversation, I suppose.

I think it'd be great if there were at least another game mode or two that affect how the main invasion progresses. Something like a factory/resource raid game mode I think would work great, where the side that's ahead can get various benefits at hanger-like locations near the start point of the map... recharge consumables, reload ammo/repair armor, repair weapons/systems, replace destroyed components... could be some different effects at various levels of the tug-o-war scale, all needing some period of time of being shutdown in the hanger area to take advantage of. This way there'd be a point to continuing in your mech after a wave when it's beat up or low on ammo, if you had that advantage.

Having some sort of meaningful reward system in place where players could get rewarded various components, either at random or based on the planet they're playing on, to go towards assembling specialized weapons/equipment that vary from the default specs of the generic ones. That might get more people interested in FW, since it would provide unique rewards and a fun new way to play around with mechs.

Anyway, just some ideas... doubt they'll ever show up as there's probably endless holes in them from a balance or technical work required standpoint. I just look forward to having more depth added to FW as time goes on

[MovinTarget]

In a way, I don't think the freemium model did them any favors as they had to essentially appeal to the largest audience possible from the onset in hopes of maximizing their paying customer base.

@Shino

The thing with the MUXES or TT is that they were (typically) in a "closed" environment meaning you didn't "drop with 23 strangers with regularity... You played with mostly with people you knew or had neutral parties regulating the games to some degree.

It'd be great if we could play FP and feel like we are influencing the map, the problem is that not everyone is playing by the same set of rules/ethics (all legal in-game, but some may question certain behaviors).
Without moderation, not just monthly patches or hotfixes, there will always be somebody that seems to affect the game more than they probably should and someone who probably hates 'em for it...

Edited by MovinTarget, 28 June 2017 - 10:17 AM.

[Shino Tenshi]

Ed Steele, on 28 June 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

That is why PGI needed to have a clear plan for what this game was supposed to be and that they should have stuck to it with only minor deviations only if something proved to be technically unfeasable. Buffing / nerfing and changing things to quiet the sqeakiest wheel of the month does not make the game better. REALLY the reason why there is so much less "salt" and more good will towards HBS and BATTLETECH is because they have been very clear about their plan and what will be in the game and everytime, someone complains, or wants them to change something, they politely point them to the roadmap and say that they are focused on delivering what they promised and will consider other things if the final product does well.

They may not have a clear end point to where they want FW to be, but one thing I will give them at least is they have been taking the effort to have semi-regular roundtables/townhalls regarding FW, listening to the community (or at least the appointed leaders of the community), and have been making at least most of the changes discussed/agreed upon. I've been really appreciating that process that's happened for the last two or three major FW updates. I think it's been providing a decent basis for decisions on where FW should go and noticeable progress over time. I may not agree with all the choices that the community and PGI make and may wish it'd was implemented several times faster, but at least it's given positive changes.

[Shino Tenshi]

MovinTarget, on 28 June 2017 - 10:06 AM, said:

In a way, I don't think the freemium model did them any favors as they had to essentially appeal to the largest audience possible from the onset in hopes of maximizing their paying customer base.

And that's probably one major benefit MUXes had over PGI. All it took was a few people crazy, dedicated, and skilled enough to put together both the main MUX code for BattleTech and then to make the various different variations. Having a server up that's capable of dealing with 100, heck even 1000, people on it at a time isn't the costly part. It's paying all the employees and support staff to develop the game that costs. The money's got to come from somewhere.

[NocturnalBeast]

Shino Tenshi, on 28 June 2017 - 10:10 AM, said:

They may not have a clear end point to where they want FW to be, but one thing I will give them at least is they have been taking the effort to have semi-regular roundtables/townhalls regarding FW, listening to the community (or at least the appointed leaders of the community), and have been making at least most of the changes discussed/agreed upon. I've been really appreciating that process that's happened for the last two or three major FW updates. I think it's been providing a decent basis for decisions on where FW should go and noticeable progress over time. I may not agree with all the choices that the community and PGI make and may wish it'd was implemented several times faster, but at least it's given positive changes.

My opinion is that PGI listens to too much feedback and does not always choose to listen to the "best" feedback. If they just took feedback into consideration, but mostly stuck to their original plan, unless there was an idea that was just overwhelmingly beneficial to the game, then MWO would be better for it. As far as FW, combining all the faction into just two sides, was bad and ruins the "lore" / hardcore-endgame that FW was originally intended to be. If PGI wanted FW to be truly accessible to everyone, then they should have tried harder to integrated a skill-tier matchmaking system. Finally, though I do think that scouting was a good inclusion and using the QP maps does add variety.

[Ober Affengeil]

ZortPointNarf, on 19 June 2017 - 09:38 PM, said:

Although I fully support the changes that are launching with the new patch, I do feel that explaining the reasoning would go a long way in helping the community understand why you are making these changes.
My recommendation would be to do you what you guys did for the updates to the hero mechs, where you changed some of their loadouts, and explained why you did it, as well as why you did not change some.
My only critique on the new comp mode is the banning of champion and hero mechs, I play those to farm CB faster, and I am sure I am not alone.

Because of the IS whiney babies. That's your explanation for every change they do.

[Ober Affengeil]

Now that IS has all the clan weapons plus their own new stuff, Clan wants our tonnage back. ALL OF IT.

[Tarl Cabot]

Oberfuhrer, on 29 June 2017 - 08:08 PM, said:

Now that IS has all the clan weapons plus their own new stuff, Clan wants our tonnage back. ALL OF IT.

We still have only the bandaid LFE but isXL still dies to the loss of one side torso, in an environment that does not have a fully functional engine crit setup. At 300 engine rating that is 5 tons given up when using a LFE over isXL, or taking a STD is a loss of is 9.5 tons of equipment vs isXL. Do not forget that IS equipment still is bulkier and heavier than Clan components.

MWO 300 engine rating
XL- 9.5(engine) + 3 (cockpit) + 3 (gyro) = 15.5 tons
LFE - 14.5 + 3 + 3 - 20.5 tons
STD - 19.0 + 3 + 3 = 25 tons

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 30 June 2017 - 10:11 PM.

[T Mech]

What is the appropriate place to provide feedback on the announcement of the Solaris game mode as an alternative to releasing more mech packs?