35 replies to this topic

[Douglas grizzly]

what is the "macro" that i see some people using? I have set my auto cannons up as 1 and then the successive number on each one after the first but i cannnot get the same fire rate that i see some people using.

[G4LV4TR0N]

Some say it's legit, some that it's debatable:

[Bellum Dominum]

takes some time in the training grounds to find the 'macro' for you. most everyone's is slightly different (pause timings mainly) as you have to 'compensate' for your ping time with your macros.

[Ratpoison]

G4LV4TR0N, on 21 June 2017 - 01:03 PM, said:

Some say it's legit, some that it's debatable:

How is it debatable? I have yet to see any macro that is helpful to competitive play at all. Giving firing control to a script means you have less control over where you place your shots, effectively reducing your options in combat. 6 AC2 chainfire macros may be cool, but it's by no means competitive.

[Athom83]

Ratpoison, on 21 June 2017 - 01:08 PM, said:

How is it debatable? I have yet to see any macro that is helpful to competitive play at all. Giving firing control to a script means you have less control over where you place your shots, effectively reducing your options in combat. 6 AC2 chainfire macros may be cool, but it's by no means competitive.

Because some people are under the false pretense that the macro increases your rate of fire.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Macros execute commands for you, such as firing a weapon group. They can't do anything that you're not already capable of with a mouse and keyboard, so don't worry. The loss of control is generally more of a disadvantage since this game has a fairly low level of execution required.

Outside of some dubious builds or disabilities that impact one's ability to manipulate mouse and keyboard macros are not that useful.

[Crusher Bob]

Well, the TAG on macro is very helpful.

If you are just starting out with something ghost heat heavy like cERLLx4 or isERLLx6 or something, setting up a macro to fire they all without ghost heat will help you get a feel for what the timing is. And macroing ghost heated LRMs can also be pretty helpful.

[PhoenixFire55]

"Macro" is used to excuse your own badness when clearly bested by a superior opponent, regardless of whether he actually uses a procedure defined input sequences or not.

[Vellron2005]

I believe that macros are a form of cheating.

Why?

Simple. Because they allow you to do something you could otherwise not do yourself. Sure, you can spam your fingers to click the mouse at better intervals than most, but keying it to a macro gives you split-second accuracy to your clicks, something your fingers could never sustain for long.

It DOES give you better rate of fire because it takes advantage of the maximum that the game allows, something a human's hand could not sustain.

And if you don't think having perfectly timed clicks are cheating, just ask anyone playing Comp Star Craft if they would allow a macro that lets you build a simple Supply Depot.

Split seconds matter, since they accumulate into seconds, and into damage, and ultimately, into the difference between a win and a loss.

That is why nobody above the age of 20 is ever any good in top-level Star Craft comp play, because their reactions are simply not fast enough.

Macros are cheating.

Edited by Vellron2005, 23 June 2017 - 01:27 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Vellron2005, on 23 June 2017 - 01:25 AM, said:

Simple. Because they allow you to do something you could otherwise not do yourself.

Do you imply that a 100t warmachine that is 1000 years more advanced that we are can't for some reason support something that any 200g PC periphery device currently does? Because you know, if a 10$ keyboard already has an in-built macro fucntionality I'm pretty sure that any advanced military equipment would also have it if it needs it.

The advantage macros seemingly offer are far outwighted by hindrances such as not being able to fire your shots at the exact moment you need it etc. The DPS incrase is marginal, and hardly matters if you are spraying it all over the target instead of pinpointing a component. Macros are only good against bads who fail to grasp the concepts of movement and torso twisting and aren't able to return fire when a barrage of oh-so-dangerous AC2s hit them.

When you gitgud you'll actually welcome someone using a macro against you, because he'll be essentially gimping himself.

Some people use a macro for Tag toggle for example, since MWO doesn't have a toggle functionality for it. Is it also cheating and gives an "unfair" advantage? ...

So it all comes down to the same ...

PhoenixFire55, on 22 June 2017 - 01:40 AM, said:

"Macro" is used to excuse your own badness when clearly bested by a superior opponent, regardless of whether he actually uses a procedure defined input sequences or not.

...

[The6thMessenger]

Vellron2005, on 23 June 2017 - 01:25 AM, said:

And if you don't think having perfectly timed clicks are cheating, just ask anyone playing Comp Star Craft if they would allow a macro that lets you build a simple Supply Depot.

MWO =/= Starcraft.

Likewise the competitive scene is different, of course they are going to be stricter there, cause you know money.

Even then, that's just the opinion of someone, not necessarily an authority. Would be far better to quote an actual referee or something.

PhoenixFire55, on 23 June 2017 - 02:10 AM, said:

The advantage macros seemingly offer are far outwighted by hindrances such as not being able to fire your shots at the exact moment you need it etc. The DPS incrase is marginal, and hardly matters if you are spraying it all over the target instead of pinpointing a component. Macros are only good against bads who fail to grasp the concepts of movement and torso twisting and aren't able to return fire when a barrage of oh-so-dangerous AC2s hit them.

True, the KGC 6x AC2 macroed is actually pretty bad, so was the 6x LB2X with the direwolf. It just spreads damage more. It even lowers the dps compared to just holding down the button, cause we gotta compensate for those lots of decimals in our math -- or at least it did to me.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 23 June 2017 - 02:33 AM.

[AncientRaig]

PhoenixFire55, on 23 June 2017 - 02:10 AM, said:

Some people use a macro for Tag toggle for example, since MWO doesn't have a toggle functionality for it. Is it also cheating and gives an "unfair" advantage?

I'd argue that a macro on that TAG does give them an advantage, if only slightly. It allows them to free up their "main" 3 fire groups, which are usually tied to the buttons you can most easily press, for their other weapons and have the TAG on a hard to press and hold button or on a keyboard key because they don't need to constantly hold the TAG like any player not using the macro has to.

Edited by Sidefire, 23 June 2017 - 02:31 AM.

[El Bandito]

Vellron2005, on 23 June 2017 - 01:25 AM, said:

I believe that macros are a form of cheating.

Why?

Simple. Because they allow you to do something you could otherwise not do yourself. Sure, you can spam your fingers to click the mouse at better intervals than most, but keying it to a macro gives you split-second accuracy to your clicks, something your fingers could never sustain for long.

It DOES give you better rate of fire because it takes advantage of the maximum that the game allows, something a human's hand could not sustain.

And if you don't think having perfectly timed clicks are cheating, just ask anyone playing Comp Star Craft if they would allow a macro that lets you build a simple Supply Depot.

Split seconds matter, since they accumulate into seconds, and into damage, and ultimately, into the difference between a win and a loss.

That is why nobody above the age of 20 is ever any good in top-level Star Craft comp play, because their reactions are simply not fast enough.

Macros are cheating.

And this is where we throw back our heads and laugh at Vellron. Even the best macrod machine gun ACs have less fire rate than alphad ACs. Thats why MWO comp players alpha all the ACs. Don't you ever put "competitive" and "macro" in the same sentence again.

[Helene de Montfort]

Macros are a form of cheating that PGI don't know how to stop, so they decided it would be tolerated instead.

It's still cheating, and anyone that pretend he could do the same with mouse and keyboard, obviously, is a liar, or he wouldn't bother to configure a macro for something he could already do.

[El Bandito]

Helene de Montfort, on 23 June 2017 - 02:37 AM, said:

Macros are a form of cheating that PGI don't know how to stop, so they decided it would be tolerated instead.

It's still cheating, and anyone that pretend he could do the same with mouse and keyboard, obviously, is a liar, or he wouldn't bother to configure a macro for something he could already do.

That's where you are wrong. I can easily do the machinegun AC, Gauss sync fire with PPCs, and persistent TAG, all without using the macro. All macro is doing is to make it more convenient for me to execute it, on demand. It is farcry from botting--which is actual cheating. ALL popular MP only games allow the use of macros, BTW.

[Morderian]

depends on the viewpoint and macro i think, for me if a macro can elevate a player above his skill level by automating or circumventing gameplay features or handicaps it is more or less cheating same if a macro allows an ease of gameplay not availabel for someone not using it as it breaks the point of fighting on the same ground with the same handicaps,

for example the AC2 macro ist just trolling and rather ineffective (well ok long ago there was a time were it was an advantage by simply blinding and rocking your opponent in a state where he could not defend himself but pgi took steps to cut it down)

a gauss macro on the other Hand circumvents the charge and its disadvantages by making the gauss from hold to charge to a single button press weapon, making it far more convenient to use (especially in a brawl) as it is easier to anticipate a late firing gun then having to take some attention on the charge level and it frees keys for other weapon groups (like in no need to use it on a comfortable mouse button when you can just put it on a keyboard as secondary weapon)

Gauss PPC macros are similar, a player who can sync it does not need one thanks to his skill but a player who can not gets huge benefits from its as it allows him to use similar skill to a far more advanced player for far less personal involvement and training

last example is the tag macro while not really breaking anything it makes the thing far far more convenient to use and frees a mouse button when you can simply pack a Tac to the passive features of your mech (still dont understand why PGI did not make the tag a toggle long time ago)

Edited by Morderian, 23 June 2017 - 04:22 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Sidefire, on 23 June 2017 - 02:31 AM, said:

I'd argue that a macro on that TAG does give them an advantage, if only slightly. It allows them to free up their "main" 3 fire groups, which are usually tied to the buttons you can most easily press, for their other weapons and have the TAG on a hard to press and hold button or on a keyboard key because they don't need to constantly hold the TAG like any player not using the macro has to.

Which I'll easily counter by saying that constantly fired TAG gives away your position like nothing else. Unless of course you park in front of a wall and do a staring contest with it ... I'm pretty sure cons outweight the pros.

[The6thMessenger]

El Bandito, on 23 June 2017 - 03:26 AM, said:

ALL popular MP only games allow the use of macros, BTW.

You might want to cite sources.

Morderian, on 23 June 2017 - 04:21 AM, said:

a gauss macro on the other Hand circumvents the charge and its disadvantages by making the gauss from hold to charge to a single button press weapon, making it far more convenient to use (especially in a brawl) as it is easier to anticipate a late firing gun then having to take some attention on the charge level and it frees keys for other weapon groups (like in no need to use it on a comfortable mouse button when you can just put it on a keyboard as secondary weapon)

Gauss macro is dumb. You need absolute control when you loose a shot, if you don't it would be more of a hindrance. Hell if you can anticipate enemy movement you can charge the gauss in advance and immediately shoot it at a moment's notice, or stop it when you can't make a shot.

It would be pretty awkward if the target walks into a wall, and you couldn't stop your macro from shooting.

Just learn how to master the gauss charge. Gauss is not about shooting fast, it's about landing a shot.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 23 June 2017 - 04:33 AM.

[TKSax]

The6thMessenger, on 23 June 2017 - 02:18 AM, said:

MWO =/= Starcraft.

Likewise the competitive scene is different, of course they are going to be stricter there, cause you know money.

Even then, that's just the opinion of someone, not necessarily an authority. Would be far better to quote an actual referee or something.

Comp in MWO allows macros, and the only reason PGI did not allow them at the world champion ship at MechCon was because they did not want anyone installing any software on the comp pc's and they did not want to have to support different devices. Besides I doubt any of the players who were at MechCon used macros anyway.

I have tied the macros, the gauss and the gauss ppc macro do not really help your play at all unless you some sort of disability and cant operate the charge. I found the gauss and gauss ppc's macros to be less flexible that learning how to do it your self.

[Morderian]

i have no problem with the Gauss charge (never actually had a problem with it using special builds since the introduction except for the fact that in the old times if buffed jumpsnipers to hilarius levels but hey i was one before my 3 Years Break), i just state what my point of view is in those cases and in a brawl (as no heat AC) it can really be a lot easier to have it fire automatcally so you can concentrate on the rest, ofc if you try to snipe with it well then you should leave a single gauss in a brawler build at home anyway as you either pack two or bring out some PPCs

Edited by Morderian, 23 June 2017 - 04:41 AM.