94 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

Andi Nagasia, on 29 June 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

@Metus regem,
personally i would Support all IS-LBX being -1Crit & -1Ton vs IS-Standard-ACs,

And you couldn't have added that on the poll? xD

[Metus regem]

Andi Nagasia, on 29 June 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

@Metus regem,
personally i would Support all IS-LBX being -1Crit & -1Ton vs IS-Standard-ACs,

The thing is the LB-2X/5X/20X were all balanced in TT around the idea of longer range and dual ammo types. Only the LB-20X and 10X actually run any cooler than their standard versions, all LB's have longer range, but that longer range is pointless in MWO as the spread is so bad to make them near worthless at range. At a minimum I would like to see the LB-2X to be no bigger than 2 crits while being 6t. That way it's a trade +1t and +1 Crit gives you a UAC/2 that is a step up in terms of useability. A LB-5X should be the same size if not a little smaller than the AC/5, again this is to make up for the spread, while the 20X I'd like to see at 8 or 9 crits, preferably 8 to make something like the BSW-1L MWO viable. The tonnage doesn't bother me as much as the crits do, when it comes to preventing some canonical mechs from being in and doubly so when it forces a standard engine.

[Kaptain]

Andi Nagasia, on 29 June 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

@Metus regem,
personally i would Support all IS-LBX being -1Crit & -1Ton vs IS-Standard-ACs,

So zero slot LBX2s ?

As much as I dislike the idea of changing BT values if they can't fix the ammo code (because in Russ's own words they lost the programmer who knows how) I would like to see the slot and tonnage values for LBXs reduced. This is esp true of the 20. Another option would be to include a free ton of ammo for every LBX but the 20 would still need a slot reduction.

[Kaptain]

Metus regem, on 29 June 2017 - 02:21 PM, said:

The thing is the LB-2X/5X/20X At a minimum I would like to see the LB-2X to be no bigger than 2 crits while being 6t. That way it's a trade +1t and +1 Crit gives you a UAC/2 that is a step up in terms of useability. A LB-5X should be the same size if not a little smaller than the AC/5, again this is to make up for the spread, while the 20X I'd like to see at 8 or 9 crits, preferably 8 to make something like the BSW-1L MWO viable.

Personally if they cant do ammo types I would like to see
LBX2 5tons, 1-2crit
LBX5 7tons, 3-5crit
LBX10 (Don't touch her she is perfect and I love her)
LBX20 13-14ton and 10crit

The reason I don't like your 8-9 slot LBX20 is that twin LBX20 is already VERY strong. I do not want to see ghost heat on the 20 nore do I want XL engine Cyclopes that can close the distance quick with twin 20s. Behing able to use it with a light fusion engine, or swap out the reg20 in an arm for a 20lbx is all I really feel the weapon needs.

[Metus regem]

Kaptain, on 29 June 2017 - 02:30 PM, said:

But you are okay with dual UAC/20's being able to pump out more accurate pin point damage and are both arm mountable with out LAA?

[davoodoo]

Just do tt rules, if you cant fit it entirely you get dynamic crits in nearby locations.

[Kaptain]

Metus regem, on 29 June 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:

But you are okay with dual UAC/20's being able to pump out more accurate pin point damage and are both arm mountable with out LAA?

Not sure how I feel about UAC20s atm. Two of them without gost heat is crazy overpowered at the moment. When only mounting one on a brawler I still find myself preferring the reliability and low face time of a regular over the unreliability and burst of the ultra. And the ammo bug is scewing everythign atm. Twin ultra20s murders a single mech fast... but it takes 6 tons of ammo to do it.

As for LAA I am on board for a slot reduction for the LBX and my suggestion was 10slots. That would fit in the arm with only 2 actuators. Am I missing something? Are you suggesting we increase the ultra20 slots? Or why are you bringing this up? Sorry, confused here.

[Deathpig]

This is easy. The TT crits assume a mechanic that isn't available in MWO.

These weapons should be shrunk to usable size to compensate. It shouldn't even be a debate.

[Top Leliel]

Deathpig, on 29 June 2017 - 02:54 PM, said:

This is easy. The TT crits assume a mechanic that isn't available in MWO.

These weapons should be shrunk to usable size to compensate. It shouldn't even be a debate.

As long as they don't have some form of crit sharing they can't ever add Arrow IV either

[davoodoo]

Deathpig, on 29 June 2017 - 02:54 PM, said:

This is easy. The TT crits assume a mechanic that isn't available in MWO.

These weapons should be shrunk to usable size to compensate. It shouldn't even be a debate.

We already have a endo steel and ferro fibrous. Mechanic is there, just needs to be adjusted for weapon

Edited by davoodoo, 29 June 2017 - 03:01 PM.

[Deathpig]

My assumption was that given they seem to understand the TT game, if they could have done crit sharing they would have.

I could be wrong.

If they can't, just slightly decrease the size of the weapons. I'd rather see the new toys get used.

[Metus regem]

Kaptain, on 29 June 2017 - 02:46 PM, said:

Not sure how I feel about UAC20s atm. Two of them without gost heat is crazy overpowered at the moment. When only mounting one on a brawler I still find myself preferring the reliability and low face time of a regular over the unreliability and burst of the ultra. And the ammo bug is scewing everythign atm. Twin ultra20s murders a single mech fast... but it takes 6 tons of ammo to do it.

As for LAA I am on board for a slot reduction for the LBX and my suggestion was 10slots. That would fit in the arm with only 2 actuators. Am I missing something? Are you suggesting we increase the ultra20 slots? Or why are you bringing this up? Sorry, confused here.

I want the LB-20X to be small enough to fit in arms to be able to build stock load outs like that of the Nightstar 9SS or Bushwhacker 1L, that's what I want.

[Bud Crue]

All LBX are crap tier weapons in the spectrum of IS ballistics. There is no reason at all to limit them to STs on STD engine builds exclusively. If given a choice at 10 crits folks are still going to take an AC20 over an LBX20, just like they choose an AC10 over an LBX10 most of the time. Moreover, if I can put an LBX20 into the arms of a clan mech I should be able to do so with an IS mech as well. TT rules be damned. This is not TT. Balance according to THIS game not TT fer chrisakes.

I have no opinion as to the Gauss (any gauss) cuz I just don't find the charge mechanic to be fun, so I don't play them and don't care. If the community says drop em to 10 crits, then fine.

[Kaptain]

Metus regem, on 29 June 2017 - 03:55 PM, said:

I want the LB-20X to be small enough to fit in arms to be able to build stock load outs like that of the Nightstar 9SS or Bushwhacker 1L, that's what I want.

Well the 9S looks to be a PGI mod of the 9SS with twin ultra vs lbx+ultra so at 10 slots we would be good to go there.
The L1* (right?) could always bee added by pgi. Or one could simply install a lbx20 in a ST with a LFE(assuming 10 slots) as the bushy L1 did use a LFE. I get what you are saying though.

I just don't think we want BOOM maulers running around with twin ultra20s and XLs + support weapons but maybe this fear is misguided? I suppose one can already mount twin AC20s and a LFE... I will say this: 2xLBX20+6xERSML on a 325std is Powerful... and I bet if we ask the Grasshopper, Nova and Zeus I murdered they would say the same.

Edited by Kaptain, 29 June 2017 - 05:13 PM.

[davoodoo]

Tbh, i would still fear 4rac5 mauler more than 2 uac20. More likely than not 1 will jam after 1st salvo half of which will hit my arm and side torso.

[FupDup]

Bud Crue, on 29 June 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:

All LBX are crap tier weapons in the spectrum of IS ballistics.

Fixed.

Well, okay, maybe the Clan LB 20-X has a few niche uses here and there. That's about it.

[Kaptain]

FupDup, on 29 June 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

Fixed.

Well, okay, maybe the Clan LB 20-X has a few niche uses here and there. That's about it.

I like the LBX10 on a few things. I have a bushy with an LBX10, LRM10 and 4 medium lasers and the ability to quickly aim "about right there" pull the trigger and get back to the other weapons is fantastic.

The LBX2 boated for clan is good.
Twin20s Clan or IS is good.

I see no reason to ever use the IS 2/5 at their current numbers.

davoodoo, on 29 June 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

Tbh, i would still fear 4rac5 mauler more than 2 uac20. More likely than not 1 will jam after 1st salvo half of which will hit my arm and side torso.

Maybe once they get their heat fixed? I've been up against 2xRac5s and it was laughably bad. Need more experience though to say for sure.

[Metus regem]

Kaptain, on 29 June 2017 - 05:05 PM, said:

Well the 9S looks to be a PGI mod of the 9SS with twin ultra vs lbx+ultra so at 10 slots we would be good to go there.
The L1* (right?) could always bee added by pgi. Or one could simply install a lbx20 in a ST with a LFE(assuming 10 slots) as the bushy L1 did use a LFE. I get what you are saying though.

I just don't think we want BOOM maulers running around with twin ultra20s and XLs + support weapons but maybe this fear is misguided? I suppose one can already mount twin AC20s and a LFE... I will say this: 2xLBX20+6xERSML on a 325std is Powerful... and I bet if we ask the Grasshopper, Nova and Zeus I murdered they would say the same.

We are already going to see those Boom Mauler thanks to the UAC/20 only being 10 slots, you can mount them with LFE's.

[Kaptain]

Metus regem, on 29 June 2017 - 06:06 PM, said:

We are already going to see those Boom Mauler thanks to the UAC/20 only being 10 slots, you can mount them with LFE's.

OK, I'm on board for 9 slots and 13 tons. You convinced me. Infact ALL LBXs should be similar to the LBX10. One less ton and one less slot for the lack of FLPP.

Edited by Kaptain, 29 June 2017 - 06:22 PM.

[Metus regem]

Kaptain, on 29 June 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:

OK, I'm on board for 9 slots and 13 tons. You convinced me. Infact ALL LBXs should be similar to the LBX10. One less ton and one less slot for the lack of FLPP.

Im glad I was able to convince you, only thing is the LB-2X should be 1 or 2 crits, as the UAC/2 is 3 and the AC/2 is 1.