56 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Gas Guzzler, on 03 July 2017 - 10:23 AM, said:

Where is the option for current heat and 15 direct damage without changing velocity or c/d?

Not there.

This poll is loaded to what Reno Blade thinks it ought to be. Just refrain from voting.

[Jettrik Ryflix]

phoboskomboa, on 01 July 2017 - 02:53 PM, said:

In a very heavily quirked Awesome 8Q (-10% ppc heat & -10% energy heat), they perform fairly well. I've gotten over 650 dmg in the last three PTS games with a loadout of 4 of them. I think they need to drop the heat to that mech's level, and do something to balance out the quirked mechs.

Keep in mind, that in this mech their base heat is -20%, which is 14.5-2.9=11.6

And this puts them about on par with how I was doing in my dual UAC-20 Catapult K-2.

I was doing the same thing, 4 HPPCs in the AWS-8Q.

They performed decent... but yes, these are the best heat quirks you can get for them, and they were still just "decent".

So yes, if they brought HPPC heat close to this level, then the weapon might be viable, and on quirked mechs might even be considered "good".

[Gas Guzzler]

Yeonne Greene, on 03 July 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

Not there.

This poll is loaded to what Reno Blade thinks it ought to be. Just refrain from voting.

Dumb poll is dumb. Git gud OP.

[Kaptain]

Gas Guzzler, on 03 July 2017 - 11:26 AM, said:

Dumb poll is dumb.

And biased.

[Reno Blade]

Yeonne Greene, on 03 July 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

Not there.

This poll is loaded to what Reno Blade thinks it ought to be. Just refrain from voting.

Gas Guzzler, on 03 July 2017 - 11:26 AM, said:

Dumb poll is dumb. Git gud OP.

Kaptain, on 03 July 2017 - 12:50 PM, said:

And biased.

Well thats some helpful advise...

Do you even see how generous some of the options are? 15dmg (with splash) for 12.3 heat is nearly too good, even for the 10ton weapon if you compare it to other PPCs (e.g. isERPPC for 10dmg 13.5heat and 7t).

Why i didn't list "flat 15dmg/15heat, no splash no velocity reduction" ?
I don't think PGI will do it ever with HPPCs nor with cERPPCs.

so here is my advise: Vote for the option that works best for you, if you don't want PGI to dart-board pick one.

[Y E O N N E]

Reno Blade, on 03 July 2017 - 09:52 PM, said:

Well thats some helpful advise...

Do you even see how generous some of the options are? 15dmg (with splash) for 12.3 heat is nearly too good, even for the 10ton weapon if you compare it to other PPCs (e.g. isERPPC for 10dmg 13.5heat and 7t).

Why i didn't list "flat 15dmg/15heat, no splash no velocity reduction" ?
I don't think PGI will do it ever with HPPCs nor with cERPPCs.

so here is my advise: Vote for the option that works best for you, if you don't want PGI to dart-board pick one.

They won't do anything according to a poll unless the results are overwhelming. Unless you put the option that a lot of people seem to want, the best advise is to avoid your poll to ensure that its results are weak and unreliable as a representation of any cross-section of the player-base.

Also, 15/15 is not "too good." It's 10 tons. It deals crap to zero damage below 90 meters. It isn't that long ranged.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 03 July 2017 - 11:57 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Yeah, polls are a bit overrated. Both by people making them, and by people that critisize them because their special opinion isn't on the poll, or they feel it's biased or whatever.

[Kaptain]

Yeonne Greene, on 03 July 2017 - 11:56 PM, said:

Also, 15/15 is not "too good." It's 10 tons. It deals crap to zero damage below 90 meters. It isn't that long ranged.

This. Even if HPPC did 15for15 I wouldn't take it over 3xLPLs in almost all situations. 20ton, 8crits and 30 heat more than justifies 15for15.

[davoodoo]

MustrumRidcully, on 04 July 2017 - 12:17 AM, said:

Yeah, polls are a bit overrated. Both by people making them, and by people that critisize them because their special opinion isn't on the poll, or they feel it's biased or whatever.

I dont feel it biased, it just doesnt offer a viable solution.

It should be at least comparable to ppcs and without 15 dmg it just wont.

[Reno Blade]

Yeonne Greene, on 03 July 2017 - 11:56 PM, said:

They won't do anything according to a poll unless the results are overwhelming. Unless you put the option that a lot of people seem to want, the best advise is to avoid your poll to ensure that its results are weak and unreliable as a representation of any cross-section of the player-base.

Also, 15/15 is not "too good." It's 10 tons. It deals crap to zero damage below 90 meters. It isn't that long ranged.

Just a quick check for you and the other "15/15" guys:
You have seen the 17 and 16 damage option, right?

1 more direct damage and 1 more splash = 13 dmg + 4 splash (2.0/2.0)
2 more direct damage, but 1 less splash = 14 dmg + 2 splash (1.0/1.0)
Even with splash, it would be superior to 15 dmg + 0 splash / 15heat... really wonder now why these would be such bad options in comparison when you gain 1 or 2 more damage on top...

[Y E O N N E]

Reno Blade, on 04 July 2017 - 07:17 AM, said:

Just a quick check for you and the other "15/15" guys:
You have seen the 17 and 16 damage option, right?

1 more direct damage and 1 more splash = 13 dmg + 4 splash (2.0/2.0)
2 more direct damage, but 1 less splash = 14 dmg + 2 splash (1.0/1.0)
Even with splash, it would be superior to 15 dmg + 0 splash / 15heat... really wonder now why these would be such bad options in comparison when you gain 1 or 2 more damage on top...

It's not like we didn't read the poll options, man.

14+3 for 16 is too hot.It will not pair well with anything other than dual Gauss or another HPPC, and only on 'Mechs that are quite heavy, i.e. BLR-1G, MAL-2P, CP-S. The gun is already too hot at 14.5, barely usable in a pair on Heavies like the CTF-3D and CPLT-K2. Any hotter and I trade them down to ERPPC, even with their damage-to-heat ratio being less than 1.

If you want to make it 14+3 with no additional changes from live except at most 15 heat, then you might have something. But you don't. You keep slapping unusable velocity, cool-down, or extra heat on the options. So we shall continue to refrain from giving this poll weight, because we aren't unseasoned.

[Reno Blade]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 July 2017 - 08:48 AM, said:

It's not like we didn't read the poll options, man.

14+3 for 16 is too hot.It will not pair well with anything other than dual Gauss or another HPPC, and only on 'Mechs that are quite heavy, i.e. BLR-1G, MAL-2P, CP-S. The gun is already too hot at 14.5, barely usable in a pair on Heavies like the CTF-3D and CPLT-K2. Any hotter and I trade them down to ERPPC, even with their damage-to-heat ratio being less than 1.

If you want to make it 14+3 with no additional changes from live except at most 15 heat, then you might have something. But you don't. You keep slapping unusable velocity, cool-down, or extra heat on the options. So we shall continue to refrain from giving this poll weight, because we aren't unseasoned.

why are you not commenting the two options i quoted again that have no downside and higher damage?
here again, tell me what you think of all the ones without downsides like the 12 heat option and these two:
1 more direct damage and 1 more splash = 13 dmg + 4 splash (2.0/2.0)
2 more direct damage, but 1 less splash = 14 dmg + 2 splash (1.0/1.0)

Edited by Reno Blade, 04 July 2017 - 09:27 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Reno Blade, on 04 July 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

why are you not commenting the two options i quoted again that have no downside and higher damage?
here again, tell me what you think of all the ones without downsides like the 12 heat option and these two:
1 more direct damage and 1 more splash = 13 dmg + 4 splash (2.0/2.0)
2 more direct damage, but 1 less splash = 14 dmg + 2 splash (1.0/1.0)

The two options that lower the heat with nothing else done make the weapon usable, but they don't make it distinct. It's too much of a side-grade from standard PPCs or ERPPCs and feel flat. Honestly, it's the IS ER PPC that should be around 12.5 heat, not the HPPC.

The 13+4 option is too similar to what we have now. One more point of splash split across two components isn't going to make the weapon significantly better and I'm still generating 14.5 heat per shot.

The 14+2 option is a lot like the 13+4 option, trading a tiny improvement in PPFLD for maintaining an unworthy amount of splash.

The cERPPC is 6 tons. Six. S-I-X. It gets five splash. And 10 PPFLD. The HPPC should be positively stellar at 10 tons, especially when it can't be supported with anywhere near as many heatsinks.

[Reno Blade]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 July 2017 - 09:45 AM, said:

The two options that lower the heat with nothing else done make the weapon usable, but they don't make it distinct. It's too much of a side-grade from standard PPCs or ERPPCs and feel flat. Honestly, it's the IS ER PPC that should be around 12.5 heat, not the HPPC.

The 13+4 option is too similar to what we have now. One more point of splash split across two components isn't going to make the weapon significantly better and I'm still generating 14.5 heat per shot.

The 14+2 option is a lot like the 13+4 option, trading a tiny improvement in PPFLD for maintaining an unworthy amount of splash.

The cERPPC is 6 tons. Six. S-I-X. It gets five splash. And 10 PPFLD. The HPPC should be positively stellar at 10 tons, especially when it can't be supported with anywhere near as many heatsinks.

thanks for the detailed answer.

comparing the hPPC to cERPPC is tough, but not really possible, or we would need a weapon with 15 dmg +10 splash going by weight and size.
going by lower heat will offset the DHS disadvantage and further harden the IS heat efficient weapon direction.

and just to make it distinct a 15/15 HPPC doesnt really do anythi g special compared to PPC+LPPC.
if you only want something special, i would expect the opposite direction, 10 +5+5 for total of 15 to 20 dmg total with higher splash than CERPPC.

personally i would prefere a middle ground with less heat and more splash to make it special and stronger overall.
e.g. something like 12 dmg +3+3 and 13 heat.

[Y E O N N E]

An HPPC at 15/15 does do something distinct from PPC+LPPC: I can fire two of them together for no penalty.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 04 July 2017 - 10:28 AM.

[Captain Grayson Lighthorse]

Best option not listed in this poll.

My vote is 15 damage, 15 heat, 1300m/s, no splash, max range 1000, optimal range 550.

When firing direct-fire weapons, I want my damage to go to ONE spot on my target. If I want to spread the damage, I will use missiles.

Some of the polling options might be effective against lights and mediums, and maybe some lighter armored heavies such as the Rifleman, but against heavier armored assaults, I think the favorable ratio of spot-on damage vs heat would not be there. Also, if you hit an arm or leg your splash damage will be lost into thin air as there is no adjoining component on one side or either side respectively to spread damage to.

This is supposed to be a MORE powerful weapon. We really need to find an antidote for the rampant "nerfing virus" at PGI towards this game. It WILL become fatal to this game if it continues to spread. I would very much like to continue playing as I really enjoy MechWarrior.

Edited by Captain Grayson Lighthorse, 05 July 2017 - 02:08 PM.

[Kaptain]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 July 2017 - 09:45 AM, said:

The two options that lower the heat with nothing else done make the weapon usable, but they don't make it distinct. It's too much of a side-grade from standard PPCs or ERPPCs and feel flat. Honestly, it's the IS ER PPC that should be around 12.5 heat, not the HPPC.

The 13+4 option is too similar to what we have now. One more point of splash split across two components isn't going to make the weapon significantly better and I'm still generating 14.5 heat per shot.

The 14+2 option is a lot like the 13+4 option, trading a tiny improvement in PPFLD for maintaining an unworthy amount of splash.

The cERPPC is 6 tons. Six. S-I-X. It gets five splash. And 10 PPFLD. The HPPC should be positively stellar at 10 tons, especially when it can't be supported with anywhere near as many heatsinks.

+1

Edited by Kaptain, 05 July 2017 - 03:29 PM.