56 replies to this topic

[Weeny Machine]

Yeonne Greene, on 03 July 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

The ACH is neutralized more easily than a Wolfhound and, frankly, its current weapon options suck.

I use mine with 5 ERML. Sure, it runs hot but it is more of a poking build and I have quite some success. Having to cool down also forces you to stay out of sight for longer...which is an advantage against pilots with the attention span of a squirrel (and those seem to be many)

[Y E O N N E]

Bush Hopper, on 03 July 2017 - 12:09 PM, said:

I use mine with 5 ERML. Sure, it runs hot but it is more of a poking build and I have quite some success. Having to cool down also forces you to stay out of sight for longer...which is an advantage against pilots with the attention span of a squirrel (and those seem to be many)

Right, but it it doesn't poke as well as 6x isML, 5x isMPL, or 4x cMPL (which the ACH can do comfortably now) and it's also inferior in a duel to isMPL and even isMPL/isSL combo builds. It's just an all-around bleh build.

[Weeny Machine]

Yeonne Greene, on 03 July 2017 - 12:12 PM, said:

Right, but it it doesn't poke as well as 6x isML, 5x isMPL, or 4x cMPL (which the ACH can do comfortably now) and it's also inferior in a duel to isMPL and even isMPL/isSL combo builds. It's just an all-around bleh build.

4 MPLs? That sounds reeeally hot:)

Edited by Bush Hopper, 03 July 2017 - 12:15 PM.

[FupDup]

Bush Hopper, on 03 July 2017 - 12:15 PM, said:

4 MPLs? That sounds reeeally hot:)

The patch reduced their heat to 5.

So, compare a 20 heat alpha of 4 CMPL to your current 30 heat on 5 CERML. You lose 5 damage in the process, but I'd gladly make that trade for 50% less heat.

Also note that with the upcoming ACH-E variant in August, you could mount all 4 of those CMPL in the torsos. No need to rely on flimsy plywood arms anymore.

Edited by FupDup, 03 July 2017 - 12:21 PM.

[JC Daxion]

jss78, on 03 July 2017 - 10:32 AM, said:

Tangentially connected, but I've been playing around with LFE's in Wolfhounds on the PTS. It's quite interesting. They were always "STD friendly" in terms of hitboxes, in that they tend to lose side torsos easily. With LFE you can get them to quite nice speed while retaining that ability.

I agree... LFE in wolfhound, panther and Firestarter. They still have good speed, and can loose a torso.

[Xetelian]

I'm fine with them taking the quirks off of it if they bend the knees more or just make it smaller.


These lights wouldn't need so much armor and structure if they were smaller...well they'd still need it but it'd be a better bet.


People get killed by a light mech and suddenly every first to die light mech doesn't exist and they're all OP. I just had a Jenner IIC with SRMs solo a DWF and me in a KDK, it stuck to our backs and we couldn't take a leg before dying. Do I think they are OP? NO! I do not. Lights are not in a good place even if some pilots are amazing in them.



In a game all about how much damage you do you can't help the light mechs enough.

[Cy Mitchell]

Did anyone notice that the Wolfhound hero had the two highest scores of the recent leaderboards? Even beat out the Assaults and the Grasshopper hero. That seems pretty viable to me.

[Xetelian]

Rampage, on 03 July 2017 - 01:16 PM, said:

Did anyone notice that the Wolfhound hero had the two highest scores of the recent leaderboards? Even beat out the Assaults and the Grasshopper hero. That seems pretty viable to me.

Good light pilots exist, that is not news to me.

[PhoenixFire55]

Xetelian, on 03 July 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

Good light pilots exist, that is not news to me.

Are you implying that good heavy/assault ones do not?

[Tordin]

Really.. The Wolfhound got the right treatmeant by the rescale. The wolfhound have always been a tall light, since MW 4, even in TT as far as I remember.
Being tall isnt an issue comparing it to having a light being to wide.
They are in the middle of the tree of being able to be hit the most. But they spread dmg like a boss and have great convergence of their energy torso hardpoints. And they got great boost in Armor quirks, not only that. But adding armor nodes makes that multply even more.
The Wolfhound are among my favorite 35 ton IS lights, alongside Ravens, Jenners and Panthers.

Edited by Tordin, 03 July 2017 - 01:50 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Part of the rescaling is that I do not believe they took into consideration what the ABSOLUTE minimum for the game should be nor setting what the Absolute maximum an assault should be. Also PGI did not take into account the default engine rating and how bulky Clan mechs vs stock IS. Never mind that IS tend to lend towards humanoid mechs while Clans are primarily bird legs.

Setting a min and max, modified by stock STD vs XL vs LFE percentage then go set the percentage for each weight group.

Absolute minimum - imho locust is right below that line. Assault mechs are too large, followed by everything in between being on the larger size com vs smaller size.

The other thing is that the mech "volume" of their shapes would not have really been taken into consideration when they were generated. Of course it is simply a discussion since it is 99.99% unlikely PGI will make any major changes with this MOW Cryengine build.

Below, the Wolfhound should be a bit smaller than shown and the Spider a tad bit larger. It is a 5 ton difference. It should be hardly noticeable.....In fact, stock Spider is using a 240 engine rating vs Wolfhound 210 engine rating.

jss78, on 03 July 2017 - 02:51 AM, said:

Spider is 5 tons lighter, no?

Maybe the Wolfhound is a little off, but not dramatic considering the tonnage difference.

Some of the height difference comes from the Wolfhounds really upright posture. (compare knee angle)



IMO, since the scale pass none of the 'mechs are too badly off, at least not like they were before. It's just that humanoids -- and especially ones in the Wolfhound's posture -- make themselves a really big target for their tonnage.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 03 July 2017 - 02:14 PM.

[Skanderborg]

Because its weight is so immense being one of the last viable IS lights.

Edited by Skanderborg, 03 July 2017 - 05:35 PM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

the most Mechs oversized ...12m Give in TT all Mechs full Cover (Atlas 16m Tall) now we have 20m Giants, a 75 t Black Knight , thats tall like the 100t Atlas and a Catapult with 10t less from the BK thats only half of the Black Knights Tall...all the Volumetric/Tonnage Calculations based of 2 D Surface Views , not of the Weight and Spavce of the Parts and Elements in the Mechs , load 15 t in a Truck or 40t..im can make a 10t Arm small with a AMS Mounted ,or the same Arm Bulky with Spacein it for a 7t Large Pulse Laser or a 8t AC5 with Ammunition Mechanism or only 2x 0,5t Small lasers and many empty room

...the size of the Truck ist the same.The Resized of Mechs its like other Ideas from PGI ...VIP Mode with a unarmed Single Giant Atlas ,run from one Dropship to another Dropship of small maps like Crimson

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 03 July 2017 - 08:19 PM.

[Xetelian]

I'm not arguing that the mech is bad, I'm arguing that it is just a lot larger than it needs to be. I understand the mech is viable and I have one and do well in it but it is almost as big as a CN9.

[PhoenixFire55]

Xetelian, on 03 July 2017 - 11:47 PM, said:

I'm not arguing that the mech is bad, I'm arguing that it is just a lot larger than it needs to be. I understand the mech is viable and I have one and do well in it but it is almost as big as a CN9.

Yep, its ret@rded that instead of acknowledging a rescale fkup and fixing it they just add quirks to oversized mechs instead. But then again, quirks don't require effort.

However, the question remains same ... they've done volume/tonnage normalization (or at least thats what they tell you) ... it didn't work ... If you are arguing that certain mechs are oversized you need to suggest a mechanism that will balance all mechs across the board. Because arbitrary changes according to personal preference lead nowhere.

Edited by PhoenixFire55, 04 July 2017 - 12:04 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Tordin, on 03 July 2017 - 01:49 PM, said:

Really.. The Wolfhound got the right treatmeant by the rescale. The wolfhound have always been a tall light, since MW 4, even in TT as far as I remember. Being tall isnt an issue comparing it to having a light being to wide. They are in the middle of the tree of being able to be hit the most. But they spread dmg like a boss and have great convergence of their energy torso hardpoints. And they got great boost in Armor quirks, not only that. But adding armor nodes makes that multply even more. The Wolfhound are among my favorite 35 ton IS lights, alongside Ravens, Jenners and Panthers.

It wouldn't be so tall but they needed to give it a wasp-like waist which translated into huge light mech in order to get the volume right.

[Tarl Cabot]

Bush Hopper, on 04 July 2017 - 10:03 AM, said:

It wouldn't be so tall but they needed to give it a wasp-like waist which translated into huge light mech in order to get the volume right.

And that is sorta the issue with using their volumetric scaling, instead of setting a min/max then using a cubed volume (sphere in cube). With the T-bolt and its thick chest and legs are the areas that allowed it to shrunk. But if a more general scaling had been used then all of those tall mechs with thin waists would not be so tall/large.

Take the picture showing the Wolfhound and Spider, only a 5 ton difference but the biggest difference is that the Wolfhound has almost no waist, tis like it was given a kardashian..treatment

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 04 July 2017 - 10:21 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

volumetric or every Scaling by Objects with nothing real Physical rules after more as optical Feeling by Objects thats build only by aesthetical Aspects ist absolute Nonsense ...we came the Ammo from the Feet to the lRM Launcher in the right Torso , or by next Mechlab Build from the left arm ? The Artists have the Mechs very different in all this Years ...when a Artist will, next have the Awesome Chickenlegs or a PPC Mounted of the Torso or made the Torso from the Centurion more wider ,or less the Dimension of the Arms ,make the Weapons larger or smaller ...all thats not have Space or Weight or Volume , im can build the Large Laser in the 3rd left Finger from the Centurion when im will.

[Natred]

Tbe best light in the game right now peoole are crying about its size! Hilarity. Its tall has a slim waste and slim side profile..

Edited by Natred, 05 July 2017 - 07:03 AM.

[Battlemaster56]

Natred, on 05 July 2017 - 07:03 AM, said:

Tbe best light in the game right now peoole are crying about its size! Hilarity. Its tall has a slim waste and slim side profile..

excuse me but you missed spelled Cheetah wrong...