49 replies to this topic

[A Really Old Dude]

Vellron2005, on 03 July 2017 - 03:22 AM, said:

Seriously guys, when are we gonna get the basic ability to save multiple loadouts of a mech, and switch them out before a drop?

Loadout switching would not affect the MM, nor the tonnage of a drop, but it would prevent people with small lasers and SRMs from feeling gimped on maps like Polar Highlands.

Also, people would pay good MC for 3, 4, 5, and 6th loadout variants..

Also, it would make cammo actually mean something.. cose' you could feel nice knowing that you're in a snow cammo mech on Polar, grey mech on HPG, or a jungle cammo mech on Viridian Bog..

Such little things matter LOADS.

AND it would bring you guys some much-needed revenue..

Although, be rational, no more than 300 MC for a single loadout config slot..

Thats the risk you take on every map, take a specific loadout and you may get caught out on the wrong map or you may have the best loadout for that map. If you could change the loadout after map selection it would spoil the randomness of the game.

I dont know how many times I have dropped and said "man I just switched from my SRM build and now I get to drop in the bog" or "my kingdom for a ER large laser on Frozen"

[CJ Daxion]

PhoenixFire55, on 04 July 2017 - 04:17 AM, said:

I remember times when while mastering a mech you could earn enough c-bills to buy one or even two more mechs. Nowadays you earn nothing, because all those earned c-bills are going into the skill maze.

Funny.. this account has NO GSP, and all i've been doing is leveling mechs from Zero since the skill tree.. (outside of playing a few mechs i actually had HSP from being mastered already, but mainly i've just been leveling mechs from scratch.)

I bought one mech on sale, and paid to level 3 and i'm on my 4th,, i've still made and extra 12m even after paying that cash to level.

No i do not have premium time running. So if you do the math that means i've hauled in over 24m, + another 6m that i spent on a mech. so 30m total, still have 12m in the bank

[Vellron2005]

Appogee, on 04 July 2017 - 12:43 PM, said:

I'm sorry. But I feel deeply about this issue.

I have been in match after match today where Assaults on my team have boated LRMs, sitting on their shiny metal asses spamming missiles at my targets while I tank for them in my Viper.

Calling out their lazy, non-contributory playstyle is not bullying... it's an intervention. I aim to trigger whatever vestige of self-worth they might still harbor, encouraging them to cast off their training wheels and play Mechs and loadouts that might actually help the team win.

When it comes carrying useless LRMboats in match after match, I'm not a civilised adult... I AM A MECHWARRIOR!!!

GRRRAAAAAARRRRGGHGGH!!! *cough* *splutter*

I understand you're frustrated, I too have been carrying matches all day, only I've been doing it in an Assault LRM boat.. so there are two sides of this story..

What my problem with your attitude is, is that you're directing your frustration against a whole sub-culture of MWO players (LRM users), instead of just calling out bad players. Its not the fact that they were using LRMs that makes you have to carry them, it's the fact that they are less than skillful players.

They would need carrying just as much if they were in Gauss+PPC, Laservomit, or Dakka mechs. The thing is its much less difficult to spot "bad players" in laservomit, unless you spectate them, cose' they are trying to shoot the enemy.. the fact that they can't hit the broad side of a barn, or they overheat after every shot is irrelevant. you're gonna blame the loss on the LRM boat..

Also, your assessment of LRMs as "training wheels" is also totally uncool.. Every "good" LRM user will tell you that to be good with LRMs requires a great deal of skill..

I also can attest to this.. It takes a lot of skill to carry a match in an assault LRM boat, and I've been doing it all afternoon.. (I could post screenshots of my match results, but I really don't care about if you believe me or not)

So again, your generalistic statement about LRMs being training wheels is simply wrong.

Also, my final point:

Let's stick to the topic here.. and it's not LRMs.. its saving loadouts.. something many a player would probably like..

So please, grit your teeth, remember the COC, and be an exemplary officer - civil and respectful to EVERYBODY, LRM user or not..

[CJ Daxion]

A Really Old Dude, on 04 July 2017 - 01:00 PM, said:

Thats the risk you take on every map, take a specific loadout and you may get caught out on the wrong map or you may have the best loadout for that map. If you could change the loadout after map selection it would spoil the randomness of the game.

I dont know how many times I have dropped and said "man I just switched from my SRM build and now I get to drop in the bog" or "my kingdom for a ER large laser on Frozen"

People are still going to min/max.. I know i do it all the time, then just hope i don't end up on a team that my load out doesn't work that well. If so, well then i am less than optimal that match. Just like everyone else that is playing something geared towards one map.


To the LRM spam concept..

But as far as the idea that everyone is just going to make LRM spam on polar to me is just kinda silly. For one, Not every mech can even run LRM's. But ever think that folks might make one of the variants and ANTI LRM build? LIke maybe everyone puts AMS or even better double AMS on one of their mechs.

Or maybe people pull out the ECM version of their mech.. Or maybe they take a long range dakka build.. Or maybe they take a faster mech brawler version to close gaps quicker.

IMO people would have a lot more counters, and maybe they would play hotter maps like terra more. Ohh crap my laser boat sucks on terra i'm never voting it.. Well maybe you make a laser boat that runs cooler so your mech doesn't totlaly suck, and you actually like playing the map now.. verse the idea that every mech you make is a generalist, which people don't do for the most part.

Edited by CJ Daxion, 04 July 2017 - 01:13 PM.

[Appogee]

Vellron2005, on 04 July 2017 - 01:08 PM, said:

/objections

Yeah I was kind of amping it up a bit for comedic value. But ok, I will be chill

Edited by Appogee, 04 July 2017 - 01:45 PM.

[Pjwned]

Bud Crue, on 03 July 2017 - 03:31 AM, said:

Never, they want you buying multiple copies of mechs for each load out that you might want. They will never give us saved load outs for that reason.

The thing is that the skill tree already has that effect now, so unless you want to run a different build with the skills all out of whack then there's no need to not allow saved loadouts anymore.

That used to be an excuse to not allow saved loadouts--one that I have thought and still do think is extremely lame, but I can see the reason--before the skill tree, but now it isn't.

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Now PGI, how about you guys do this: Lock us into a variant like now, but let us switch between different versions of the same variant before a drop? That would further encourage those sales of multiple versions of the same mech while still letting us have mechs we want to play for specific maps. How about that, huh? Its a win win. Vellron gets the abilty to switch loadouts and camo patterns and have a version that he actually wants to play on a given map; and you get to suck us into buying a bunch of different versions of that same mech. How bout it?

Map voting needs to be axed anyways, so no.

Edited by Pjwned, 04 July 2017 - 02:25 PM.

[PhoenixFire55]

CJ Daxion, on 04 July 2017 - 01:03 PM, said:

No i do not have premium time running. So if you do the math that means i've hauled in over 24m, + another 6m that i spent on a mech. so 30m total, still have 12m in the bank

And you mean to tell me that event rewards have nothing to do with that, huh? ...
Or maybe that you are also using 2-3 consumables per match? ...

Sorry, but I'm just not buying that someone with an avg matchscore of ~240 is earning more than someone else with an avg matchscore of ~450. Even provided I do use about 1.5 consumable per game. And no, this isn't about bragging rights, its about the fact that c-bill rewards are proportional to matchscores.

[PhoenixFire55]

vandalhooch, on 04 July 2017 - 12:57 PM, said:

In other words, you avoided the C-bill sink by swapping your modules. You weren't actually mastering a mech in the old system.

What I was referring to was about 2 years before modules were implemented ...

vandalhooch, on 04 July 2017 - 12:57 PM, said:

There's a simple solution. Don't buy a mech until you have already saved all the C-bills you will need for its SP costs. Then, as you grind the XP, you will be earning C-bills for your next mech purchase.

LOL ... whats the fkn difference?

vandalhooch, on 04 July 2017 - 12:57 PM, said:

This perception that you aren't earning C-bills for new mechs is one entirely created by your own lack of self-control and currency management skills.

Of course. Shouldn't have expected any other response from one of those clueless types.
Hey, don't let me stand in your way, go buy a MechPak^TM or smth.

[vandalhooch]

PhoenixFire55, on 04 July 2017 - 03:12 PM, said:

What I was referring to was about 2 years before modules were implemented ...

So you are complaining that the game has recently changed from what it was four years ago? Seriously?

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LOL ... whats the fkn difference?

Then what the heck are you complaining about? Nothing has actually changed.

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Of course. Shouldn't have expected any other response from one of those clueless types.
Hey, don't let me stand in your way, go buy a MechPak^TM or smth.

Translation: "I just realized that my complaint is based on my own choices and not a mechanic of the game and therefore I need to deflect to protect my ego."

[Vellron2005]

Appogee, on 04 July 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

Yeah I was kind of amping it up a bit for comedic value. But ok, I will be chill

Yeah, comedic effect is easily lost on a forum.. and I might be kinda sensitive to the subject cose' LRM users have sort of become the bully's go to punching bag in this game..

But thanks for "chilling out"

You and I should maybe do some drops together, you in your meta mech of choice, me in my LRM boat of choice.. Maybe we could both take some pointers

I know I'm not in your skill level yet, but I think a good LRM boat could help you see we Lurmers carry our own weight.. naturally unless we drop on HPG..

[CJ Daxion]

PhoenixFire55, on 04 July 2017 - 03:07 PM, said:

And you mean to tell me that event rewards have nothing to do with that, huh? ...
Or maybe that you are also using 2-3 consumables per match? ...

Sorry, but I'm just not buying that someone with an avg matchscore of ~240 is earning more than someone else with an avg matchscore of ~450. Even provided I do use about 1.5 consumable per game. And no, this isn't about bragging rights, its about the fact that c-bill rewards are proportional to matchscores.

Hmm after doing the math it seams like i made even more than i thought.. NICE!

Math doesn't lie.. I've played about 400 matches since season late season 11. I was playing my IS account mainly before that. And they had that FW event, which i played on both accounts, but those are not counted on leader boards.

So post that event and skill tree. I have leveled from scratch a Warhawk, Direwolf, hellbringer, Then these mechs just had basics. (3 novas, shadow cat, ACH, ebon.) My Clan account did not have much in the way of GSP, i wanted to level my mechs so i had to pay. My clan account average is 145k per match, (though for this i only used 400 x 125k = 50m) I don't use consumables often, if we are winning i don't bother, if we are loosing bad i don't bother, only when it is close. so that extra money can easily add up. (one consumable per match is 16m)


I don't play group, which you obviously do, and in pugs you can often get rolled which can get you a very low match score, especially if you are on a loosing streak. But those 350-450 match scores make up for it.



If you add in event rewards i've made even more than that..But as i said, I bought some mechs, and i've paid to level most of what i've done which is why i only have +12m in that time. ( i also bought a bunch of parts to complete some mechs the way i wanted) I am not having any issue making money to level mechs.

PS whats your average match C-bill earning? i am curious..

Edited by CJ Daxion, 05 July 2017 - 01:13 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

vandalhooch, on 04 July 2017 - 03:19 PM, said:

So you are complaining that the game has recently changed from what it was four years ago? Seriously?

The game hasn't changed one bit, its the same sh!tty random matches with zero meaning. The amount of c-bills you end up getting from said random matches however did change, and clearly not in favor of players. So yeah, seriously.

vandalhooch, on 04 July 2017 - 03:19 PM, said:

Then what the heck are you complaining about? Nothing has actually changed.

I take it you are too dense to get what you yourself suggested huh? ...

vandalhooch, on 04 July 2017 - 12:57 PM, said:

PhoenixFire55, on 04 July 2017 - 04:17 AM, said:

I remember times when while mastering a mech you could earn enough c-bills to buy one or even two more mechs. Nowadays you earn nothing, because all those earned c-bills are going into the skill maze.

There's a simple solution. Don't buy a mech until you have already saved all the C-bills you will need for its SP costs. Then, as you grind the XP, you will be earning C-bills for your next mech purchase.

So pray tell what this "solution" of yours solves exactly? ... Once again in case two times isn't enough for you to understand one simple statement ... You used to earn enough c-bills while fully mastering a mech to buy another mech afterwards. Now during mastering a mech all your c-bills are going into said mech. Doing this grind after I purchased and mastered a 'new' mech or before that (i.e. after I purchased a previous new mech) is doing exact same thing. Thus my comment about no difference, which obviously was too hard for you to understand.

vandalhooch, on 04 July 2017 - 03:19 PM, said:

Translation: "I just realized that my complaint is based on my own choices and not a mechanic of the game and therefore I need to deflect to protect my ego."

Yeah sure, I mean, since you don't even understand what you are saying yourself, let alone what others are saying ...

[PhoenixFire55]

CJ Daxion, on 05 July 2017 - 12:29 AM, said:

I don't play group, which you obviously do, and in pugs you can often get rolled which can get you a very low match score, especially if you are on a loosing streak. But those 350-450 match scores make up for it.

FYI ... I've played exactly 15 matches in a group during season 12 and exactly 0 matches in a group during season 13 so far. I'm forced to make up for PUG rolls with matchscores of 650.

CJ Daxion, on 05 July 2017 - 12:29 AM, said:

PS whats your average match C-bill earning? i am curious..

There is no way to tell. The stats page isn't accurate on that regard. Even if it was, since I've started playing 5 years ago, it would mostly represent the earnings from initial economy of 2012-2014. If I'd have to guess ... about 160k per match? I have no active premium either.

[vandalhooch]

PhoenixFire55, on 05 July 2017 - 02:48 AM, said:

The game hasn't changed one bit, its the same sh!tty random matches with zero meaning. The amount of c-bills you end up getting from said random matches however did change, and clearly not in favor of players. So yeah, seriously.

So, recently, means three and half years ago for you.

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I take it you are too dense to get what you yourself suggested huh? ...

So pray tell what this "solution" of yours solves exactly? ... Once again in case two times isn't enough for you to understand one simple statement ... You used to earn enough c-bills while fully mastering a mech to buy another mech afterwards. Now during mastering a mech all your c-bills are going into said mech. Doing this grind after I purchased and mastered a 'new' mech or before that (i.e. after I purchased a previous new mech) is doing exact same thing. Thus my comment about no difference, which obviously was too hard for you to understand.

Entitlement is all I see. Entitled thinking clouded over with a healthy lack of understanding for the function of currency sinks in games.

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Yeah sure, I mean, since you don't even understand what you are saying yourself, let alone what others are saying ...

So, you think you should be able to purchase a new mech after what, 30 or 40 matches?

Tell us, what is the proper number of matches the game should require you to play before you can purchase a new mech?

[PhoenixFire55]

vandalhooch, on 05 July 2017 - 03:00 AM, said:

So, recently, means three and half years ago for you.

And the dense one strikes again ...

PhoenixFire55, on 05 July 2017 - 02:48 AM, said:

vandalhooch, on 04 July 2017 - 03:19 PM, said:

So you are complaining that the game has recently changed from what it was four years ago? Seriously?

The game hasn't changed one bit, its the same sh!tty random matches with zero meaning. The amount of c-bills you end up getting from said random matches however did change, and clearly not in favor of players. So yeah, seriously.

For anyone with half a clue who is actually following the thread it is obvious that we are talking about changes brought by skill tree, thus "recently" in the quoted conversation is May 2017 when skill tree was implemented. But of course since you are having hard time following your own posts you fail to grasp that.

vandalhooch, on 05 July 2017 - 03:00 AM, said:

Entitlement is all I see. Entitled thinking clouded over with a healthy lack of understanding for the function of currency sinks in games.

LOL, so who is deflecting to protect his ego now, eh? ... Dude, remain clueless and go buy a MechPak^TM all you want. If you think that all your in-game earnings are supposed to go into currency sinks, feel free pay your monthly subscription to a free-to-play game.

vandalhooch, on 05 July 2017 - 03:00 AM, said:

So, you think you should be able to purchase a new mech after what, 30 or 40 matches?

Tell us, what is the proper number of matches the game should require you to play before you can purchase a new mech?

I've never touched the subject of what that number should be, I've merely pointed out the fact that players are getting less and less c-bills with each major update. That alone should give you a fkn hint.

Since the average amount of c-bills you get depends on how well you perform in-game, it means that the average amount of matches one have to play in order to purchase a new mech varies greatly depending on player skill. Mechs themselves also have quite the difference in their c-bill prices.

Now the question is ... for which skill level do you want to measure "normal" amount of matches it takes to earn c-bills. Top tier skill players still don't really care, they are earning plenty, its not a big deal whether its 30 matches or 50 matches for them, especially since they are active players with dozens of matches per day. But on the other hand of the spectrum you have baddies and new players, who are lucky enough to earn 50k c-bills per match. For them it would take hundreds of matches to earn enough in order to purchase a new mech, and considering they are the 'casual' part of a playerbase, playing maybe a dozen matches per week, it means they can hardly get one new mech in several months worth of playing the game.

You will clearly fail to understand the problem with that so I'll point it out for you ...
The rich are already rich and don't care, decreasing c-bill earnings won't make them suddenly buy stuff for real money. On the other hand poor are only getting poorer, and when forced with a choice of either paying real money or not getting anything new like ever, they will simply quit the game and happily forget it.

So I think its about time you stop playing dumb for the sake of looking cool. Coz the longer you keep at it, the more obvious it becomes that you aren't actually playing.

[KevinFlynn]

vandalhooch, on 04 July 2017 - 12:57 PM, said:

In other words, you avoided the C-bill sink by swapping your modules. You weren't actually mastering a mech in the old system.

You realize that there was a tooltip while the game that was loading that encourage swapping modules to save cbills rights.

[Nameless King]

Vellron2005, on 03 July 2017 - 03:22 AM, said:

Seriously guys, when are we gonna get the basic ability to save multiple loadouts of a mech, and switch them out before a drop?

Loadout switching would not affect the MM, nor the tonnage of a drop, but it would prevent people with small lasers and SRMs from feeling gimped on maps like Polar Highlands.

Also, people would pay good MC for 3, 4, 5, and 6th loadout variants..

Also, it would make cammo actually mean something.. cose' you could feel nice knowing that you're in a snow cammo mech on Polar, grey mech on HPG, or a jungle cammo mech on Viridian Bog..

Such little things matter LOADS.

AND it would bring you guys some much-needed revenue..

Although, be rational, no more than 300 MC for a single loadout config slot..

Never pick what you want to play and then play it no matter what map and mode comes up.

Maps and Modes should be random now that would make things great.

[The_Dane]

Bud Crue, on 03 July 2017 - 03:31 AM, said:

Never, they want you buying multiple copies of mechs for each load out that you might want. They will never give us saved load outs for that reason.

Now PGI, how about you guys do this: Lock us into a variant like now, but let us switch between different versions of the same variant before a drop? That would further encourage those sales of multiple versions of the same mech while still letting us have mechs we want to play for specific maps. How about that, huh? Its a win win. Vellron gets the abilty to switch loadouts and camo patterns and have a version that he actually wants to play on a given map; and you get to suck us into buying a bunch of different versions of that same mech. How bout it?

I was thinking the same thing. I take my Battlemaster 1G short range build into a match. Lo and behold, the map is Polar Highlands. I can then click on my "Change Variant\Loadout\Whatever" button, and I can choose between the variants I already own.

I have 2 Battlemaster 1Gs. One is a ML-heavy loadout, the other a ERLL and LRM loadout. I also have a 2C that is a straight-up brawler. It'd be nice to be able to switch out to a more "map-friendly" build.

[Taffer]

Yeah it's annoying that we can't save loadouts. Closest I can get to that is screencapping mechlab or bookmarking it in smurfy.

oh to be clear I don't care about being able to change my loadout for a map. I just plain want saved builds of a mech. Heck I'd like voting removed and let the map be a surprise.

Edited by Taffer, 05 July 2017 - 11:47 AM.

[vandalhooch]

PhoenixFire55, on 05 July 2017 - 03:57 AM, said:

And the dense one strikes again ...

For anyone with half a clue who is actually following the thread it is obvious that we are talking about changes brought by skill tree, thus "recently" in the quoted conversation is May 2017 when skill tree was implemented. But of course since you are having hard time following your own posts you fail to grasp that.

You whined that you don't earn C-bills for new mechs while leveling current mechs with the new system.

I pointed out that you can do that if you wait until you have more C-bills before you purchase new mechs.

You then countered that there was no difference between those two.

Therefore, ACCORDING TO YOU, there was no actual recent change. In fact, your true complaint is that you can't earn C-bills at the same rate you did nearly four years ago.

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TM[/sup] all you want. If you think that all your in-game earnings are supposed to go into currency sinks, feel free pay your monthly subscription to a free-to-play game.

Look, I get it. You don't have the slightest clue how to design an in game economy. No need to shout it.

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I've never touched the subject of what that number should be, I've merely pointed out the fact that players are getting less and less c-bills with each major update. That alone should give you a fkn hint.

Per match C-bill payouts were not changed at all in the latest patch. The "decrease" you are whining about is only a perceived decrease created by your lack of self-control to save C-bills before purchasing new mechs. The actual cost to master a mech has gone down with the latest patch because you don't have to spend 18 million on modules.

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Since the average amount of c-bills you get depends on how well you perform in-game, it means that the average amount of matches one have to play in order to purchase a new mech varies greatly depending on player skill. Mechs themselves also have quite the difference in their c-bill prices.

Dodge, dodge, dodge. Give us a single example with real numbers. You pick the mech. You pick the player skill level.

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Now the question is ... for which skill level do you want to measure "normal" amount of matches it takes to earn c-bills. Top tier skill players still don't really care, they are earning plenty, its not a big deal whether its 30 matches or 50 matches for them, especially since they are active players with dozens of matches per day.

Whole lot of assumptions going on in that. How do you know Top Tier players don't care? How have you determined that they are earning "plenty?" How do you know that Top Tier players have dozens of matches per day?

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But on the other hand of the spectrum you have baddies and new players, who are lucky enough to earn 50k c-bills per match. For them it would take hundreds of matches to earn enough in order to purchase a new mech, and considering they are the 'casual' part of a playerbase, playing maybe a dozen matches per week, it means they can hardly get one new mech in several months worth of playing the game.

Then how many matches should it take them to earn say a Kodiak?

BTW: How exactly do you know that new players earn 50K per match on average? Where did you get that figure? Or is this just more of you making stuff up?

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You will clearly fail to understand the problem with that so I'll point it out for you ...
The rich are already rich and don't care, decreasing c-bill earnings won't make them suddenly buy stuff for real money. On the other hand poor are only getting poorer, and when forced with a choice of either paying real money or not getting anything new like ever, they will simply quit the game and happily forget it.

How do the poor get poorer?

Nothing new . . . ever? How exactly did you determine that's what actually happens to new players? Or are we just supposed to accept your made up story as the truth?

Care to comment on the millions of C-bills awarded through in-game events each month? How does that figure into your "math?"

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So I think its about time you stop playing dumb for the sake of looking cool. Coz the longer you keep at it, the more obvious it becomes that you aren't actually playing.

Says the guy who complains about the new payout scheme that isn't actually new at all.