16 replies to this topic

[jss78]

A thought occurred once playing around with the new skill tree.

It seems to me that we're experiencing an inflation in sensor ranges.

The baseline sensor range in this game is 800 m. Nowadays, I imagine most people get out to 1080 m, because the most universally useful nodes of the sensor tree (Seismic Sensors, Radar Deprivation) are locked behind +35% sensor range nodes. If you happen to be running an active probe, that'll take you further to 1280 m.

In actual gameplay, I'd argue sensor ranges beyond 800 m are only situationally useful. Either such long sight lines don't exist, or even if you do get a long-range lock, you don't have effective weaponry to take advantage of the targetting information. By extension, this makes the sensor range boosts given by many equipment (active probes, command console, targetting computers, Tacticon B2000) of little practical value.

What I propose is substantially taking down the baseline sensor range. Make it so that getting locks out to the present 800 m requires a substantial investment in sensor skills and/or equipment. And to go beyond 1000 m, even more so.

It wouldn't be a game changer, but I think it'd be a simple way to (1) make spotting for your friendlies more useful and (2) make the sensor equipment such as AP's, CC, TC more worthwhile.

Edited by jss78, 05 July 2017 - 05:21 AM.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Actually, maany people ditch sensors in favour of more firepower/agility/HP/whatever. Among other things, yes, because stock sensor range is perfectly fine as it is. 800 meters is +/- max range at which it makes sense to try and shoot the enemy with most weapons in the game (some do laughable damage, many no damage at all, locks break for lrms, velocity is to slow for ballistics...).

I dunno why PGI doesn't use the skill tree as an excuse to introduce a bit of role warfare into the game, like lighter mechs having better sensors (or much better, heavier mechs having worse ones). It definitely wouldn't hurt lights and light meds to have some secondary advantage against fatties. Maybe some of them wouldn't even need to be quirked to high heaven to stay viable.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 05 July 2017 - 07:40 AM.

[CFC Conky]

How is sensor range handled in the TT game?

[Requiemking]

CFC Conky, on 05 July 2017 - 08:00 AM, said:

How is sensor range handled in the TT game?

Its not. Unless there is some kind of fog-of-war rule in play, everyone always knows where their enemy is. Loadout data isn't given to you until the enemy mech starts firing on you, and in a campaign setting the GM generally only gives a general idea of an npc mech's condition.

[CFC Conky]

Requiemking, on 05 July 2017 - 08:10 AM, said:

Its not. Unless there is some kind of fog-of-war rule in play, everyone always knows where their enemy is. Loadout data isn't given to you until the enemy mech starts firing on you, and in a campaign setting the GM generally only gives a general idea of an npc mech's condition.

Ah, ok, thanks .

(Sorry, I'm not much of a 'lore' guy...)

Conky

[Skanderborg]

Knowing where the enemy firing line is so you don't walk into it is pretty helpful , or finding that guy all by himself to gang up on.

[Magnus Santini]

Sometimes the sensor range can give you a blip that disappears and you didn't see the mech, but you notice the blip so it is advance warning. It is also good if you are scouting or spotting for teammates' LRMs.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I regularly take advantage of 1200m sensors. It helps identify loadouts, mech type, and I can spot for others. Also, when I boat my AC/2s I can see how much damage I am dealing or where the enemy maybhave a weakspot (yes, my Clan AC/2s when range-boosted deal full power past 1000m)

I like it very much, plz don't nerf muh sensorz!

[LordNothing]

best sensor in the game is the mk1 eyeball. you can often see things before you can lock them.

[SMDMadCow]

Requiemking, on 05 July 2017 - 08:10 AM, said:

Its not. Unless there is some kind of fog-of-war rule in play, everyone always knows where their enemy is. Loadout data isn't given to you until the enemy mech starts firing on you, and in a campaign setting the GM generally only gives a general idea of an npc mech's condition.

Also, infantry, vehicles, and mechs can set up in hidden positions which require an active probe to root out - with a 90 meter range.

[Rhaegor]

Probably.

[jss78]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 05 July 2017 - 07:39 AM, said:

I dunno why PGI doesn't use the skill tree as an excuse to introduce a bit of role warfare into the game, like lighter mechs having better sensors (or much better, heavier mechs having worse ones). It definitely wouldn't hurt lights and light meds to have some secondary advantage against fatties. Maybe some of them wouldn't even need to be quirked to high heaven to stay viable.

Yeah, this is kind of what I was going for, with that simple suggestion of taking down baseline sensor range.

You could extend the concept to other sensor aspects such as targetting information delay and decay. Take those down and make it so that getting to current baseline level, let alone beyond that, requires major investment in sensor tree nodes and/or AP/TC/CC equipment.

The problem currently is that the baseline sensors are all you need. The range is effectively infinite for most maps and combat situations, and you get your paperdoll to identify that open side torso in no time. Thus all that sensor boosting equipment, namely AP/TC/CC, are regarded as useless, with the sole exception of the counter-ECM functionality of AP.

Edited by jss78, 06 July 2017 - 05:44 AM.

[zeves]

so basicly your just forcing thoose people that dont pick radar derp to take radar derp, so it all comes back to the same loadout as before tree rewamp.. great.
not that it really mathers to much unless your using say lurms.

Edited by zeves, 06 July 2017 - 10:26 AM.

[Mechteric]

I do like the idea of having different baseline range by mech chassis/equipment, hope we get to see it one day!

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 06 July 2017 - 10:27 AM.

[SMDMadCow]

zeves, on 06 July 2017 - 10:25 AM, said:

so basicly your just forcing thoose people that dont pick radar derp to take radar derp, so it all comes back to the same loadout as before tree rewamp.. great.
not that it really mathers to much unless your using say lurms.

I don't follow, how is anyone being forced to take radar dep if the universal sensor range is lowered?

[Tarogato]

Probably.

[MadRover]

SMDMadCow, on 06 July 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

I don't follow, how is anyone being forced to take radar dep if the universal sensor range is lowered?

Because then you might as well put forth some investment into the tree to get real use out of it. Most mechs don't need sensor range but just because you can see them doesn't mean your sensors will pick them up. Half the time spent in a fight these days is figuring out where the weak point of a firing line and it is usually well hidden. That leaves the lights to continue finding an actual weak point for everyone to breakthrough. The main problem is the lack of lights that prevent this because of the feeling of uselessness and to some extent those are complaining about that are right.

Once we drop these corridor maps and get more open (and bigger urban maps come on PGI MW4 managed to create a really nice urban map that had all the hell of fighting in urban environments in a mech) maps lights will get more use again because they will be needed again. Right now as it stands everyone knows where the other team can go it's just a matter of can we beat them to it.

We need new maps and more proper, open maps not corridor maps where team blue creates chokepoint and point A while team red approaches point A and gets a whole lance eaten up and shot to pieces.