224 replies to this topic

[Skanderborg]

I just drive around in my 102 alpha brawler Orion with override on , always get at least one solo kill each game .

I just hope my UAC 20 never jams.

Edited by Skanderborg, 05 July 2017 - 12:20 PM.

[Albino Boo]

Prosperity Park, on 05 July 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

Brawling is a guaranteed way to cause your combat vehicle to receive damage. Getting into Brawling range means you are within effective renage of all the enemy's weapons and also are close enough to where they practically cannot miss you.

Brawling is not a smart tactic. It can be really fun, but if you are trying to win and not die, then why push into close range where you are at risk of receiving the most damage, and risk fighting multiple enemies at a time?


I wish people would stop complaining about how "Brawling is Dead" because Brawling is just an exercise in meaningless fun. It's not an exercise in Trying to Win. You know what else is Dead? Sending fleets of propeller-driven warplanes into combat, but WWII flight sims are still fun. You know what else is Dead? Sending hoards of men marching in file out into an open field, a la Civil War and Napoleonic wars. Still, people coming about how "LRMs are OP" because you cannot freely March out into the open without being attacked by long-range weapons.

Look, some things are more Fun than Effective. And some things are just plain ineffective. Don't blame PGI for you not being able to thrive while using poor tactics.

I suggest that you familiarise yourself with the mechanics of the game. Short range weapons have shorter cooldowns and lower heats. When brawling you trade range for more higher damage and dps close in. A 12 er small laser nova will out damage a 5 er large laser battlemaster at less than 200m. Brawling is not dead, if it was the recent changes to csmpl and cersml would not be necessary.

[Bud Crue]

Tiewolf, on 05 July 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

Mmh I think razenWing got a valid point here. The more you rise in the tier system the more freedom you lose in your build/play style options or your chances of your team to win are slim. Even if you are matched with lower tiers due to server population, matchmaker forces you to preform cause on the other team is very likely an adequate player like you that runs a meta build. If you are in a fun build and together with lower tier players, who can't carry you the stomp is very likely and your matched player on the other team will have a brilliant game with 1,5k damage. That is what is happening. So the higher you rise the less freedom you get and the more you get forced to embrace the meta. I don't enjoy it too, cause I like to have fun and don't like to be forced into a need for achievement.

Bah.
I am a tier 5 scrub half way through tier 2. I play a Panther 10P with an LBX10 as my primary light; an XL crab 27L as my favorite medium; if given my druthers, I run Quickdraws and Cataphracts (with all their hard points being used) in CW and everyday group queue if the tonnage allows it; and the only Assaults I regularly run are a 3LPL and AC10 Misery and various Victors. Even more relevant is that I have a 160 mechs and I regularly cycle through them (though I admit until the rebalance following new tech I am running exclusively Clan). In any case Meta Schmeta, Tier Schmere. The only thing restricting you at higher tiers are you own personal motivations. The only freedom you are losing is that which you are allowing to be lost.

Play what you like. If you are not having fun, then play something else. If that something else happens to be the meta, then Congrats, you will likely rise in tier faster than you otherwise would have; but that is still your choice. No one is forcing anything on you.

[Pur]

Prosperity Park, on 05 July 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

Brawling is not a smart tactic.

[PurplePuke]

I'm in tier 1 and I don't see the complaints that the OP and others talk about. The complaining, at least on General Discussion, is almost constant.
People always want to criticize others, and to assume that playstyles they don't themselves enjoy, or haven't gained skill at, are somehow a "problem."

That's a poor outlook.

If you've gained sufficient skill to jump, charge your gauss, and land the shot, you're a "pop-tart."

If you have longer range weapons and try to bring them to bear early in the game before opponents can effectively trade with you, you're a "poke-tard."

If you have short-range builds, you're useless until the two forces close distance, so you're a "brawl-tard."

If you work the battlefield angles with a 2ERL light, you're a "cancer-mech."

Good players rise above it all and enjoy all styles of play. I'm not that great a player, just got to tier 1 by playing a lot. But I don't complain when I die. What's the point?

If you're on here complaining about a particular play-style, just keep at it and learn how to counter it. Everything in this game has a counter to it; enjoy the challenge of finding it and don't come on here and whine and complain.

Or whatever.

[Nightbird]

Unfortunately mechwarriors don't know what environment they're dropping into, otherwise you might see more diverse builds than the all-around laser vomit.

[Brain Cancer]

Actually, what makes me sad is that the Tier system is designed to funnel virtually all of the playerbase into the same games.

Similar skill levels not required. As long as you're not so bad that basic robot operation is a fail, you will end up in games regularly with T1 players. I don't play as much anymore, but when I do, the ol' ranking bar steadily crawls towards T1.

Did I mention I normally play missile boats, arguably the weakest primary weapon system in the game?

[Bulletsponge0]

razenWing, on 05 July 2017 - 06:56 AM, said:

200 posts ago, I made about my forray into the realm of Gods and Monsters. I don't think adapted poorly, in fact my average match score has gone up season by season despite climbing that ladder.

But as I was staring at my arsenal of 100+ mechanical yesterday, I realized... Wow I am not enjoying this... Like at all.

If you want to do good consistently, brawl is basically dead in high tier game. Nobody got to that stage without the most effective method, which from the beginn8ng of time, has always been to shoot before you get shot back. Even if it's boring as hell, at the end of the day, you just have to land one more shot than the other side, right? That's why top teams like EMP never pushes, but rely on their impressive shooting skills to make a mockery of poptarting.



Till you run into those EMPs tier comp teams. And you realize, crap, outside of running the exact same meta yawn builds and lose a slower more competitive death, you are just going to get trashed otherwise.

I've run into them plenty of times in group queue, and they most definitely will push...thats part of the reason they are so good, they can play virtually any style

[Felicitatem Parco]

Albino Boo, on 05 July 2017 - 12:22 PM, said:

I suggest that you familiarise yourself with the mechanics of the game. Short range weapons have shorter cooldowns and lower heats. When brawling you trade range for more higher damage and dps close in. A 12 er small laser nova will out damage a 5 er large laser battlemaster at less than 200m. Brawling is not dead, if it was the recent changes to csmpl and cersml would not be necessary.

The OP said Brawling is Dead and that's why he does not like being in Tier 1. That's the whole basis of this thread. Quote him, not me.

King Harkinian, on 05 July 2017 - 12:31 PM, said:

Yeah, "Brawling" is such a good tactic that our entire military doctrine is based around intelligence, long-range weapons, and not getting into knife fights unless absolutely required, such as in clearing buildings. That's our tanks, ships, and aircraft use weapons with ranges in the kilometers, not meters. Brawling is just an open invitation to get shot.

When Brawling is synonymous with "shield arms" and "armor sharing" is literally means "getting shot the **** up" which leads to vehicle damage. Brawling should be a last ditch effort since it is very easy to come out of a ranged fight with little damage but brawl almost always cause severe damsge to all parties.

The Inner Sphere does not have unlimited production facilities, you know :-p

Edited by Prosperity Park, 05 July 2017 - 01:20 PM.

[Pur]

lol did you just invoke RL

[LordNothing]

im not far from t1 myself. over 3/4 the way through tier 2. its going to be hell. when i moved from 3 to 2 there was a lot of backlash that kept throwing me back into t3. got thrown back 2 or 3 times before it stuck. i figure the same will happen when i cross the t1 threshold. i can usually carry my weight, but having to carry potatoes is too much of a burden.

[QuantumButler]

Mister Blastman, on 05 July 2017 - 07:41 AM, said:

So what do you do when you're forced to play Polar orifice?

Get good?

No seriously, Polar highlands actually has a good amount of LoS cover, and if you actually take radar derp you are usually reasonably safe from LRMs provided your team isn't mega ****.

And if they are you probably lose anyway even if you arerunning super meta tryhard builds.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Hmm. I have never been a meta maniac, can't poptart for crap because I don't enjoy the play style and often run mixed builds yet I am up here at Tier 1. Honestly if anything I feel my teams are worse at Tier 1 than they were at Tier 2 and 3 with alot of know-it-all players who either A)Try to micromanage everyone or Think their way is the best and only way because they are Tier 1 and run off and do their own thing. Also there seems to be more smack talking as well. My stats are generally increasing though so aside from the extra frustration I feel from playing in the Elite Tier, my performance is doing ok.

[razenWing]

Rather than complaints, let me throw a few scenarios...

Randomize pool, rather than one map or one mode you want to play, you only get to x put one you don't want.

Maps with interactive elements such as space elevators, NPC turrets, defensive grids, blast doors... Etc

Maps with environmental hazards such as emp field, holograms, gravity, terrain surfacing, etc

Maps such as urban cities, underground mining tunnels, asteroid belts, impact crater, space docks, inside a jumpship...

I can go on and on.

_________

Again, I don't blame super teams for doing what they do. Cause, it's the most efficient way to tackle the problem. I miss in other tiers where there's lot more creativity, even if they are... Bad in some cases. Some of you keep trying to argue with me like this isn't a thing. If that's not part of your experience, good for you. But for more people than not, it is a thing. Make an alt account, kill yourself and surf through the kill cams.

If there's one thing I can gripe about super players, it's that they won't step out of their comfort zone despite they can probably still succeed with none meta mechs. I watched enough b33f and proton stream to know that they will step outside of that meta play and can still do well. But I have ask sjr emp or 228 comp players (not rjbass, he also plays with some rand9m @ss builds) on why they never play anything else except ppc hunch or other meta mechs, the answer is always, why? So again, this is not a critique of HOW they play. I think you have a right to take your most efficient approach to your success or happiness. But it is a valid observational fact, that's quite frankly pointless to debate me about, cause it is real.

And so, I don't nor ever will blame the people that game the system. I blame the system that can obviously be improved upon.

[Johnny Z]

Many of the trolls are tier 1 so make the best of it, and welcome. Well that is when they are not making tier 5 alts to troll newbies with.

Edited by Johnny Z, 05 July 2017 - 02:09 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

QuantumButler, on 05 July 2017 - 01:48 PM, said:

Get good?

No seriously, Polar highlands actually has a good amount of LoS cover, and if you actually take radar derp you are usually reasonably safe from LRMs provided your team isn't mega ****.

And if they are you probably lose anyway even if you arerunning super meta tryhard builds.

The question was:

"What do you do when you are forced to play polar orifice?" with respect to the context of "short range weapons."

No amount of cover will save your *** if you can never get into range to do any damage until most of your own team is dead.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 05 July 2017 - 02:13 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Mister Blastman, on 05 July 2017 - 02:08 PM, said:

The question was:

"What do you do when you are forced to play polar orifice?" with respect to the context of "short range weapons."

No amount of cover will save your *** if you can never get into range to do any damage to the enemy until most of your own team is dead.

Yep the best way to ensure a win is to take the first enemy mech down yourself. This season has not been easy for me since the troll brigade is in top form this time so far. I don't mind its good practice and has resulted in some epic personal bests.

Got 5 kills a few times in my locust lately but one match in particular was an epic win just yesterday. 100 more assists and I got the next light achievement so I will be playing slow Inner Sphere assaults more coming up.

Last month I had a match where my score was more than the rest of the team combined. hahahah I am 100% serious. Fun times.

Does it take 2 full teams to keep my stats from being extraordinary? Yes, yes it does.

Edited by Johnny Z, 05 July 2017 - 02:21 PM.

[MadRover]

Leone, on 05 July 2017 - 08:01 AM, said:

@OP, Next time we're contracted to the clans, hop on down to the Kell's Commandos Teamspeak and check if we've room. It's the rare drop we choose to go long range over midrange to brawl mechs. We'll show you our favourite brawling paths an let you brawl it up with us some, so long as we've the spare space.

(A warning, but queues've slowed down a bit the last couple a days, and we did get a ghost drop last monday. But the team right after us got an insta match.)

~Leone.

Let me add onto this. You will learn a lot from KCom. I will strongly advise and recommend playing with KCom. Very chill people. You will learn which maps generally work for which builds and how to adapt to the situation.

Also, thank you KCom. You guys made me a better player in like a whole week. Hope to play with you guys again.

[Vxheous]

Prosperity Park, on 05 July 2017 - 01:16 PM, said:

The OP said Brawling is Dead and that's why he does not like being in Tier 1. That's the whole basis of this thread. Quote him, not me.



Yeah, "Brawling" is such a good tactic that our entire military doctrine is based around intelligence, long-range weapons, and not getting into knife fights unless absolutely required, such as in clearing buildings. That's our tanks, ships, and aircraft use weapons with ranges in the kilometers, not meters. Brawling is just an open invitation to get shot.

When Brawling is synonymous with "shield arms" and "armor sharing" is literally means "getting shot the **** up" which leads to vehicle damage. Brawling should be a last ditch effort since it is very easy to come out of a ranged fight with little damage but brawl almost always cause severe damsge to all parties.

The Inner Sphere does not have unlimited production facilities, you know :-p

Since getting your mech severely damaged or destroyed doesn't actually get you severely hurt or killed, RL doesn't really have any implications on what works and what doesn't work in a game.

The reason brawling doesn't get played often is because it's a crapshoot in solo queue. Brawling requires team buy in, to push and share armor/shed aggro when required. Since you don't know who and what your teammates will use as mechs in solo queue, playing as a brawler becomes very feast or famine, while mid-range poke is more jack of all trades/can function in almost all solo queue situations.

As long as I'm not derping around testing builds in solo queue, I would always want to bring a mech that will function well in most situations despite what my team will be, as it would guarantee the best chance at winning. Bringing a Brawler, and having a bad team almost always results in a loss since your effect on the match will be minimized.

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 05 July 2017 - 03:38 PM.

[Mar-X-maN]

NlGHTBlRD, on 05 July 2017 - 01:02 PM, said:

Unfortunately mechwarriors don't know what environment they're dropping into, otherwise you might see more diverse builds than the all-around laser vomit.

This is actually THE strongest argument for mixed builds. Meta relies on a few select maps, ideally only one.

Meta. One map, one mech. one weapon. All else obsolete & inferior.


Oh also an observation on brawling. I love it when my opponent in a brawl gets lurmed from a helpful teammate.
I noticed my team losing more often when we didn't have lurms on our side.
Lurms are build in teamplay. Anyone who hates lurms for piggy bagging clearly doesn't like teamplay or
focused fire. Imo everyone should carry at least an LRM15.

You want me to share armor. But if I share my ammo (and tons) to assist you from 800 meters out long before
any direct fire ally can help you are mad at me? You are welcome, friend. Oh and if you got yourself into trouble, I'll assist your retread but I won't jump into the mess you gotten yourself into too.

Edited by Mar X maN, 05 July 2017 - 03:48 PM.