18 replies to this topic

[razenWing]

I don't know if this falls under "discussion of moderation practice," but it's an issue that affect customer rights.

My unitmate got a letter from PGI saying that his account was temp banned because he "override" too much. Which, having dropping with him for majority of the time, is complete BS. Not that he never override to kill himself, but that the override was intended to break the game.

Look, I get that you can't go around blowing yourself up for no raisen.

But in his scenario, he likes to play strategic and would often find himself the last guy alive against impossible odds. When you are the last guy alive and asked to carry a team, you take more risks. This involves NOT SHUTTING DOWN IN THE MIDDLE OF 5 GUYS.

And of course... sometimes the heat does run over, and you die. It's part of the play. There's no malice or ill intent in any of these. His stats are on the leaderboard. You don't go around suiciding at the beginning for no raisen and get high KDR. It's a definitive proof that his self kills are due to strategic play.

So, knowing him, watching him on death cams countless times, and to have him receive that crap... it's totally unacceptable. Odds and special circumstance DO happen. That's why you don't look at 1 dimensional figures and assume that there's a need for moderating action.

It's why you don't look at the top of the leaderboard and ASSUME everyone with high kdr is cheating.

I mean, this is a case where if the moderating team just look at his stats overall, you can easily disprove that he's not doing this on purpose. So... what the hell? Is there a problem with overzealous action? Or is there a laziness problem? Either way is unacceptable.

[justcallme A S H]

I cannot see how using override button is cause for warning.

I suspect there is more to it that is in the "email" that is not being posted. I would suspect it's more killing ones self all the time.


That said first thing I do when I hit the ground in most matches is hit override. Also if I'm getting shot at by 5 mechs, I will shoot one more time even if it means blowing myself up. It's not a common occurrence but for sure, sometimes you can take down a mech while over 100%... I cannot see how that would be against the rules or logic of the game given it's a feature.

[razenWing]

justcallme A S H, on 05 July 2017 - 09:58 PM, said:

I cannot see how using override button is cause for warning.

I suspect there is more to it that is in the "email" that is not being posted. I would suspect it's more killing ones self all the time.


That said first thing I do when I hit the ground in most matches is hit override. Also if I'm getting shot at by 5 mechs, I will shoot one more time even if it means blowing myself up. It's not a common occurrence but for sure, sometimes you can take down a mech while over 100%... I cannot see how that would be against the rules or logic of the game given it's a feature.

I can quote the email that he quoted for us. There's details about the amount of the deaths (which I will not post because technically, my outrage is not with his permission, so I don't want to give too much identifier info), which, is also false. Because that amount of death PGI cited as override suicide is the same number as the number on the leaderboard, but not all of those deaths are suicides.

(you know, cause I played with him, so I KNOW)

so that email contained false info to begin with... and to have the moderating team not checking the facts... it's like,

what
the
hell

[UnofficialOperator]

Is he an ach pilot?

Ps: if its him then I'm 100% its not strategic in all cases

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 05 July 2017 - 10:53 PM.

[Gwei Loong]

You would have to do it over and over again. Hot maps, colds maps, game after game. I die to overheat a few times a day. Not intentional but it happens when you override and your taking dmg. You get hit and take heat crits at the same time. Happens but I still don't have it happen more than in .5% of my games. I am not even sure it's that high because 1 in 20 seems high but it's not 1 in 10. Sometimes luck just isn't on your side. Was worse when you took crits to the head.
So I am going to have to side with Unofficial here and say he also ran out of bounds a few times. One video of that and maybe your temp banned. So many people run videos now it's not even funny, that coupled with MWO's culture of reporting people and you probably better just play by the ToS/CoC that you agreed to when you choose to play this game.

[Vellron2005]

I also override alot.

It's partly part of a strategy to "go out in a blaze of glory" when I know the opponent will kill me regardless, and by pushing the override button, I can shoot longer, and if I overheat and die, I would have died anyway, and will also deny him the kill.

Sometimes it happens by accident, when I push my mech to the extremes in order to kill the other guy before he kills me, or simply because I wasn't paying attention.

It's never out of malice or to hinder my team.

It happens.

it's part of the game.

If PGI is sanctioning this, they should be looking at the "time in game" stat. If you overheated in the first 2 minutes, then it's quite likely malicious.

[UnofficialOperator]

An easier deterrent would be to put a suicide stat. If a pilot is concerned about his kdr or wlr that much, he would probably be concerned about a suicide stat. Easy to track too.

[LordNothing]

i blow myself up an awful lot. sometimes its one of those situations where you are going to die anyway, and at least this way you die in a way that is useful to your team. other than shutting down and letting them kill you without you putting shots into them first. most of the time its because i forgot to switch off my override. in either case i usually get enough damage in to show that i was not going for non participation. im actually surprised i have not received any warnings with the number of times i inadvertently cooked my core. there is probibly a hidden counter and if it gets too high the system automatically issues a temp ban. i also have a hunch that the number of people who report you also play a role in the tickup of the counter. frankly the override is a game mechanic and one should not be penalized should that mechanic cause an unfavorable result for the team/player. the system is intended to suppress greifing and general poor sportsmanship, not to punish people for being stupid.

i know override is one way to defeat flamers, usually costs you your life but if you take that heat bot out of the game its better for your team.

Edited by LordNothing, 06 July 2017 - 12:11 AM.

[Ced Riggs]

Major "wat" from me.

Could you indeed quote the email with censoring the names?

[Gwei Loong]

Some players get obseen amount of reports though. For a period of time I dropped with a ACH who like to snipe and for awhile there was always at least one guy in group at end of game yelling to report him for non participation.
What I think happens is if you do that PGI will look into it, you know they can observe games. You can observe games in MRBC and they are server side so of course they can. Just follow the ToS/CoC and all is fine. It does not matter if people are trying to get you banned for no reason but if your braking the rules you get into trouble.
That's my theory based on what the player contract says. If PGI just banned everyone that was reported then I am guessing a lot of people would get it. What does superize me is that he did not get a warning, I am wondering if he had a history of this. If you have a history of braking the ToS/CoC then I think they go tougher on you.

Edited by Gwei Loong, 06 July 2017 - 12:39 AM.

[Bud Crue]

razenWing, on 05 July 2017 - 09:55 PM, said:

I don't know if this falls under "discussion of moderation practice," but it's an issue that affect customer rights.

My unitmate got a letter from PGI saying that his account was temp banned because he "override" too much. Which, having dropping with him for majority of the time, is complete BS. Not that he never override to kill himself, but that the override was intended to break the game.

Wait...he got a "ban" (even a mere "temporary" one)? Not a warning but a ban, for using a mechanism that is provided for in the game? I agree, that is some serious BS, right there.

Edited by Bud Crue, 06 July 2017 - 01:35 AM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

I don't think that's the whole story, but it's pretty darn stupid to temporarily ban someone for using an in game mechanic.

Should we be banned for using heat vision on caustic to see giant black specks that are mechs 600m away, too?

[Lukoi Banacek]

Hope folks realize suicide deaths dont protect KDR. When you die, whether killed by an opponent or by overheat, you still suffer a detriment to your KDR. Short of ALOT of people bothering to report this user for his chronic suiciding, I dont see PGI even noticing this player getting an email or temp ban like this.

So, what is he doing that is likely triggering the complaint? I ride the dragon (override) whenever I am in a foregone conclusion match,and I know plenty of players who start the game with override on right after their mech starts. So I am fairly certain this isnt the entirety of the story.

It is another reason PGI should also track and publish KMDD, because it would help reduce complaints from some players who feel "robbed" by someone dying to heat.

[ShoX]

Now I've done customer support for a rather large game with reporting mechanics. 99 out of 100 cases of
"My raid leader says he got banned because of disconnects / people reporting him for BS / insert random "totally understandable circumstance", please set him free". tickets end up in the same way. You open the report and some guy was either cheating their arse off or calling people N****rF****ts on a different server.
This is also the reason you won't get a PGI comment on the subject:

1. The email is accurate and there is a problem with the penalty against suiciding.
You don't want to confirm publicly errors with automated penalty systems.
2. The email has been misquoted, and the reason for the suspension is entirely different.
You can not publicly out a player for wrongdoings of this kind unless that's a general policy of yours. It's just not a good way to treat players.
3. Player wasn't penalized at all but your buddy wanted to do something else without fessing up that he had other plans.
This happens a lot. Had a customer who played in a different faction without his ultra-radical faction purist guys knowing. Every time he had a scheduling conflict he needed an excuse because the purist friends would have thrown a hissy fit.

[HGAK47]

Best thing I ever did was learn to switch on Override at the start of the match and not look back.

Problem is from time to time I forget to do this and go and overheat in the worst places thinking I can soak a little damage and keep moving on.... sigh.

[TWIAFU]

Bud Crue, on 06 July 2017 - 01:34 AM, said:

Wait...he got a "ban" (even a mere "temporary" one)? Not a warning but a ban, for using a mechanism that is provided for in the game? I agree, that is some serious BS, right there.

Using override is 'legal'

However, repeated suicides, even by overheating, is not.

So, for him to be even looked at by PGI, he has to have done it enough to get reported for it, looked into it by PGI, and found that yes, it was in fact to many suicides.

There is far more to this then what second hand info about a friend is being offered.

[Davegt27]

I blame the players override used to reset once used

but no people wanted it to stay on so now you blow up all the time

requests to put it on a toggle just got ignored since PGI only listens to the try hards

[Escef]

Razen, quite bluntly, I think your unitmate is lying to you.

[draiocht]

[mod]As discussion of moderation is not permitted on the forums,
this thread is now closed.

Moderation actions may be appealed via email to moderation@mwomercs.com.
Depending on the nature of the infraction and the appeal, the case may be escalated for further review.
[/mod]

Edited by draiocht, 06 July 2017 - 03:40 AM.