10 replies to this topic

[Fae Puka]

Seriously, all that is happening is a race to each base, no combat, no chance to skill up or earn c-bills and all that comes back from those intent on doing it this way is "It's the game objective!". Oddly enough, always thought the objective was to play big stompy robots that shoot each other so everyone can have fun - not this asinine approach to grabbing a win (and that goes for either side trying to play this way).

Why not turn it into a proper attack/defence situation with ONE base on the map and a variety of support equipment to either help attackers or defenders to make it an interesting and competitive match/game style?

[Tyroki]

It is, by far, the worst mode in the game.

No contest.

Edit: To clarify, while I'm not fond of Escort, at least we can force a fight.

Edited by Tyroki, 09 July 2017 - 02:04 AM.

[ShooterMcGavin80]

I initially thought incursion sucked but it has grown on me. Now Escort is the only game mode that really makes me groan.

Escort could be fixed by just somehow overlaying the VIP's path and pickup point on the map for VIP's team.

[Insanity09]

And it is certainly possible to force a fight in incursion, just stay at or near your own base. Problem solved.

Also, you do get points, cbills, xp, and match score, for doing the objective stuff in incursion: battery pick-up and drop-off, destroying turrets and base pieces.

I have a suspicion that some folks object to incursion because the victory condition doesn't require enemy contact. That seems to offend some sensibilities, even though it makes absolutely perfect sense.

[Vidarion]

I have had 36 Incursion matches. I think there was a base rush in only 1 of those. The rest all involved a reasonably serious fight by some or all of the players. There may have been a handful of others where the game was decided by a base getting destroyed by one side while a majority of players were brawling.

Now, granted, I'm a Tier4 pug (getting REAL close to Tier3 though) and play a majority of matches in solo queue ... so puggers is as puggers pug. I can see base rushes being more a problem against large, well-coordinated groups, but it's really no issue in solo queue.

That being said, Incursion is really what Assault should be. If base rushes are a problem in Incursion, I don't see how they aren't a problem in Assault as well (but even more so).

Now, is it perfect? No. Hell no. But it's a far cry more fun than Assault.

Escort is awesome for one reason, asymmetry. It's great to have a game mode where each side has different, competing, objectives. But it can use some improvements as well.

One suggestion that might encourage some amount of fighting before a base rush:

• Make base building health dependent on the number of friendly mechs that are alive. So if there are 12 friendly mechs still alive, base buildings get a bonus on top of their regular health equal to 12 times the regular health, making it basically useless to base rush before taking out a majority of the opposing team. building health + 12x building health. Every time a friendly mech is destroyed, that additional multiplier is reduced by 1.
  
  • Alternately, make the divider based on the lances...
    
    • Alpha lance = 50%, Bravo lance = 100%, Charlie lance = 150%
      
    • Total multiplier if everyone is alive is still 12, but killing a member of alpha lance isn't as beneficial as killing a member of charlie lance.
• Make turret health and damage based on the number of friendly mechs that are alive. The defense turrets maybe should have the same sort of thing. Instead of the damage done to them being divided, have their health and damage output increased based on the number of friendly mechs alive. If everyone is alive, turrets have 12x bonus health and deal 12x damage, but as you take out mechs, those multipliers drop.

[Khobai]

Quote

• Make base building health dependent on the number of friendly mechs that are alive. So if there are 12 friendly mechs still alive, base buildings get a bonus on top of their regular health equal to 12 times the regular health, making it basically useless to base rush before taking out a majority of the opposing team. building health + 12x building health. Every time a friendly mech is destroyed, that additional multiplier is reduced by 1.
  
  • Alternately, make the divider based on the lances...
    
    • Alpha lance = 50%, Bravo lance = 100%, Charlie lance = 150%
      
    • Total multiplier if everyone is alive is still 12, but killing a member of alpha lance isn't as beneficial as killing a member of charlie lance.
• Make turret health and damage based on the number of friendly mechs that are alive. The defense turrets maybe should have the same sort of thing. Instead of the damage done to them being divided, have their health and damage output increased based on the number of friendly mechs alive. If everyone is alive, turrets have 12x bonus health and deal 12x damage, but as you take out mechs, those multipliers drop.

all that does is turn it into skirmish when the entire point of incursion is to be different from skirmish

thats not really a good solution

a better solution would be making the buildings mostly immune to mech damage (like closed turrets) and make the dropship the only thing reasonably capable of destroying enemy buildings. that forces both teams to fight over the energy wells and collect energy which is what incursion mode is supposed to be about.

Edited by Khobai, 10 July 2017 - 09:24 AM.

[Vidarion]

I don't argue that my suggestion would lead to more skirmish. In fact, I admit it pretty much up front. The OP was complaining about incursion being too much 'base rush' and not enough 'skirmish'. When I put numbers in, I do it for ease of illustration and not necessarily as suggestions for 'final numbers' and the thing that came to mind was making the building health tied to how much of your team is alive. That makes it more 'productive' to do more skirmish in the early game and try to whittle down the enemy before trying to disengage and attack the base.

I do agree that building health needs to be semi-immune to mech-fired weapons at least in the first half to 3/4 of the game.

I like your suggestion that the dropship fire on the buildings. THAT is a pretty interesting way to make it more focused on the energy wells. I definitely like that idea.

[Kalimaster]

Hey, I enjoy blowing up some poor dude's base after I turn one of his Mechs into an LRM pin cushion.

[Insanity09]

Perhaps set it up so that the dropship had a priority: first, shoot enemy mechs; second, if no mechs are available, start firing at the buildings.

However, there would need to be some way to drive the the dropship off. Since we can't shoot at it, I'd say if both ACT towers were active, they'd negate each other.

That said, with the inflated durability of the buildings, I can't see the ACT being an effective way to destroy the enemy base (damage yes, destroy, not so much). Still, better than nothing, and yeah, it would still encourage more battery focus.

[50 50]

What might be quite interesting would be to set up Incursion as an asymmetrical mode so one team was a clear defender.

Right at this point, I would be really interested to see what it would be like to combine modes.

For example:
What if instead of using the power cells to power the towers, we use intel points?
That is, if there is a bunch of intel scattered about the map that either side could collect, it could build up enough points to trigger the effects of the towers. Like how we have the intel tug of war bonuses setup at the moment but with both sides having a pool of points to build up and unlock the different effects.

The power cells could be used to take power from the base to an external location to power something else. Weapon batteries for forward bases? Power up generators for a gate in a pass which the opposing team then has to go around or destroy the generator (bit of siege in there)?
I kinda like the function of them so don't want to waste it.

[Vidarion]

'Asymmetrical Incursion' is the "Seige" faction war mode. That's enough of a nightmare in solo FW...putting that into solo QP would be insane.

If you want forward batteries or gates, the maps would have to be changed a lot. At the very least, they would need to be made bigger.

I think that gaining intel points to trigger effects would be interesting in a longer match, but in the solo QP queue would be largely ignored. Right now, batteries are only picked up two or three times for each side. If there is a lot of maneuvering, you might get four or five, but that's rare in my experience. Usually, you will get both sides powering up radar and/or jammer and you might get the ACT powered or you might get a second round of radar/jammer. But by then the match is basically over already and it's just someone dumping off a battery they picked up earlier in the match.