49 replies to this topic

[jss78]

Hit the Deck, on 10 July 2017 - 11:56 AM, said:

I'm still curious how they will perform at their "intended" range (which is medium range as the name implies) because this was/is my main concern with MRMs.

I guess I'll find out soon.

I tried them for a bit on the PTS, and I was a bit mystified about how you're supposed to make them work.

For me -- they felt really hot, and the spread was kind of ludicrous. Within SRM range you'd want to bring SRM's (obviously, and this is not a problem), but then outside SRM range I felt like I should've spent the tonnage on pinpoint weaponry because the spread was SO massive.

I didn't try stacking lots and lots of small launchers, maybe that's where the meta lies.

They were hilarious though, I think I'll be kitting out one Archer or something that shoots 80+ per volley.

[Carrioncrows]

Then can we get wire guided SRM's?

Since they do track?

[ScrapIron Prime]

Koniving, on 10 July 2017 - 12:00 PM, said:

This almost makes MRMs sound like a super weapon.

No, think of an MRM system as a really, really crappy LBX for a fraction of the tonnage. Super weight savings, same crit seeking, but slow projectiles and a scatter pattern the size of a cataphract.

[Novakaine]

The way people always stop to aim and shoot.
I see no issues.
Gonna have to change my forum sig.

[davoodoo]

jss78, on 10 July 2017 - 12:14 PM, said:

I didn't try stacking lots and lots of small launchers, maybe that's where the meta lies.

I tried catapult with 6 mrm10, you know whats so good about it?? that you need to chainfire to stave off ghost heat and still spend around 400-500 missiles to take down proving grounds atlas at 400m.

If this weapon hits live in state it was on pts it will be troll build weapon for decent mechs, but whats even more hilarious it will actually replace srms for some hardpoint starved mechs.

Edited by davoodoo, 10 July 2017 - 01:10 PM.

[El Bandito]

ScrapIron Prime, on 10 July 2017 - 12:35 PM, said:

No, think of an MRM system as a really, really crappy LBX for a fraction of the tonnage. Super weight savings, same crit seeking, but slow projectiles and a scatter pattern the size of a cataphract.

Plus MRMs are not FLD.

[Khobai]

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Then can we get wire guided SRM's?

Since they do track?

I think MRMs should be wire guided with a toggle to turn it on/off. Because MRMs are too hard to aim at medium range, being able to steer them would help make them better at medium range. It also differentiates them from LBX.

and SRMs should have the option to dumbfire or lockon (but with worse tracking than streaks and chance to miss completely instead of autohitting like streaks), while streaks should only fire while locked on but never miss.

And while were on the topic of awful missile weapons, I think LRMs need a much higher max velocity but they should gradually accelerate upto that higher max velocity on an exponential curve. That would help make LRMs better at longer ranges without making them better at shorter ranges.

Edited by Khobai, 10 July 2017 - 01:38 PM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

There's nothing that's going to make MRMs not a mediocre-at-best troll/space-filler weapon because they hit pretty much every bad note for weapons in a MW game: low velocity, mediocre range, high spread. I only really expect to use them for things like the single missile slot on my Misery.

And while the wire-guided change is nice, there really needs to be a toggle for the old way so that you can fire-and-forget when you need to twist, otherwise you're going to waste most of the missiles on terrain/allies/empty space.

[CanadianCyrus]

MRMs seem to trade stream fire for spread the higher up the capacity you go. MRM10s seemed to have about the same spread as a SRM6 without artemis, but stream fired. MRM40s had a huge spread but very little stream fire from my experience. That said MRM10s were fairly solid and with the amount of ammo per ton you get, made it a fair compromise between trading accuracy for spam.

[Pjwned]

Why would MRMs be wire guided when they're explicitly supposed to be dumbfire, while SRMs are actually supposed to have some guidance but have none at all?

Really dumb; if MRMs aren't good enough without guidance then buff their spread and velocity more instead.

[Khobai]

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Why would MRMs be wire guided when they're explicitly supposed to be dumbfire, while SRMs are actually supposed to have some guidance but have none at all?

Because its hard to hit moving targets with MRMs at medium range. And if you cant hit moving targets with them at medium range then you might as well just go back to using SRMs. If you could steer them it would be easier to hit things at medium range with them. Although there would need to be an on/off toggle for that feature so you could turn it off to torso twist.

And yes SRMs should be able to fire dumbfire or have the option of locking on with way worse tracking than streaks and a chance of missing. Whereas streaks should only fire while locked on but never miss.

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Really dumb; if MRMs aren't good enough without guidance then buff their spread and velocity more instead.

Unless you give them autocannon velocity thats not gonna work. And it wouldnt be appropriate for them to have autocannon velocity anyway since no missiles in MWO travel that fast. 450m/s is already pushing how fast missile should go. Besides that weapon already exists, its called LBX.

MRMs need something that sets them apart from LBX. being able to steer them would make them different from LBX.

Edited by Khobai, 10 July 2017 - 03:02 PM.

[Tarogato]

GrimRiver, on 10 July 2017 - 10:37 AM, said:

The now updated version work similar to C-LRM's when you fire and turn during mid-stream the later half of the missiles would follow to where the crosshairs are currently pointing.

Erm, that's not how cLRM's actually behave. They behave the same as MRMs did on the PTS - they all stream out and converge on the single location your reticule was when you first initiated the volley. You can't spray them over an area with dumbfire.

You're confusing this with how cLRMs allow you to bend the arc after initiating a volley.

[Tarogato]

Khobai, on 10 July 2017 - 01:32 PM, said:

and SRMs should have the option to dumbfire or lockon (but with worse tracking than streaks and chance to miss completely instead of autohitting like streaks), while streaks should only fire while locked on but never miss.

I'd much rather see it the other way around. Streaks should have worse tracking and a chance to miss, so that they don't obliterate lights. With that nerf in place, they can be given better spread characteristics to be more useful against heavier mechs so they aren't universally useless or cheesy one-trick--anti-light-ponies.

[Khobai]

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Streaks should have worse tracking and a chance to miss, so that they don't obliterate lights.

Obliterating lights is the one and only thing streaks do well. Not sure why youd take that away from them.

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With that nerf in place, they can be given better spread characteristics to be more useful against heavier mechs so they aren't universally useless or cheesy one-trick--anti-light-ponies.

I kindve like that they obliterate lights though. It keeps light mechs honest if theres a medium mech with streaks in play. I mean theres plenty of weapons that are good against heavies/assaults. But streaks are one of the few weapons designed to kill lights specifically.

Edited by Khobai, 10 July 2017 - 03:18 PM.

[Pjwned]

Khobai, on 10 July 2017 - 02:57 PM, said:

Because its hard to hit moving targets with MRMs at medium range. And if you cant hit moving targets with them at medium range then you might as well just go back to using SRMs. If you could steer them it would be easier to hit things at medium range with them. Although there would need to be an on/off toggle for that feature so you could turn it off to torso twist.

And yes SRMs should be able to fire dumbfire or have the option of locking on with way worse tracking than streaks and a chance of missing. Whereas streaks should only fire while locked on but never miss.


Unless you give them autocannon velocity thats not gonna work. And it wouldnt be appropriate for them to have autocannon velocity anyway since no missiles in MWO travel that fast. 450m/s is already pushing how fast missile should go. Besides that weapon already exists, its called LBX.

I don't see the problem with increasing MRM velocity to 750 m/s or even higher than that, they're (supposed to be) made for shooting at medium-long range targets with no guidance so why would they not have sufficient velocity to reliably hit the targets?

It's a similar situation for ER PPCs, they have the range but not the velocity to make use of that range, and while that is being compensated with wire guidance for MRMs that's also not how they're supposed to (nor how they should) work. I obviously didn't read the thread enough and missed Chris Lowrey's response saying there's no wire guidance, which is fine because they shouldn't be wire guided.

Other missiles don't have as much velocity because it's either not needed (SRMs) or they can't get that velocity without giving up ammo tonnage or guidance or something (LRMs).

(Editing this in because I didn't want to make a new post.)

Hit the Deck, on 10 July 2017 - 03:37 PM, said:

Wire guidance aside, I can agree with the notion that MRMs should be fast.

Assuming that all individual missile from each type have the same volume,

• SRM (~2 pts of damage) is packed full to the brim with explosives. Short ranged because of low fuel and has no guidance system whatsoever.
  
• MRM (~1 pt of damage) has decent amount of fuel and is made to go fast. Low explosive.
  
• LRM (~1 pt of damage) has high amount of fuel so it can fly far. Is also equipped with a guidance system. Low explosive.

Aside from disagreeing a bit on SRMs--because they should either have some guidance or they should do more damage without guidance as they're supposed to--this is pretty much exactly how I see it.

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MRMs need something that sets them apart from LBX. being able to steer them would make them different from LBX.

I would rather see LBX have something that sets it apart from MRMs, i.e being actually good at what it's supposed to do, and MRMs just being functional medium-long range unguided missiles with nothing really special about them.

What's wrong with that?

Edited by Pjwned, 10 July 2017 - 03:50 PM.

[davoodoo]

Pjwned, on 10 July 2017 - 03:27 PM, said:

What's wrong with that?

That you pay 12 tons, 7 crits and 12 heat and ammo to deal maybe 8 dmg to ct at 400m assuming target didnt twist...

[Pjwned]

davoodoo, on 10 July 2017 - 03:31 PM, said:

That you pay 12 tons, 7 crits and 12 heat and ammo to deal maybe 8 dmg to ct at 400m assuming target didnt twist...

Then buff the spread too like I said above.

It's the same concept except concerning a different attribute, if the spread sucks so much that it can't reliably hit targets within its range then make it better.

[Hit the Deck]

Wire guidance aside, I can agree with the notion that MRMs should be fast.

Assuming that all individual missile from each type have the same volume,

• SRM (~2 pts of damage) is packed full to the brim with explosives. Short ranged because of low fuel and has no guidance system whatsoever.
  
• MRM (~1 pt of damage) has decent amount of fuel and is made to go fast. Low explosive.
  
• LRM (~1 pt of damage) has high amount of fuel so it can fly far. Is also equipped with a guidance system. Low explosive.

[DAYLEET]

Give MRM the velocity of an AC20, at least 650. That way we can pretend to actually be aiming them at the range they are supposed to be used, 400 meters. A volley of mrm is going to be damn hard to aim at 400meters even at 650 for the face time required.

[HollowBassman]

Pjwned, on 10 July 2017 - 03:27 PM, said:

... and while that is being compensated with wire guidance for MRMs that's also not how they're supposed to (nor how they should) work.
...

MRMs are not getting wire guidance. The OP misunderstood how they were being changed from their PTS iteration.

Chris Lowrey, on 10 July 2017 - 09:07 AM, said:

Ok, throwing cold water on this rumor right now.

At no point did we say we where going to be introducing a wire guided mechanic for MRM's, we have only indicated that we are addressing the reported bug that the missile stream did not update for the reticle position. Nothing to report beyond that at this time.