49 replies to this topic

[Pjwned]

HollowBassman, on 10 July 2017 - 03:45 PM, said:

MRMs are not getting wire guidance. The OP misunderstood how they were being changed from their PTS iteration.

That's what I get for skimming past the first page.

Point still stands about increasing velocity though.

[Chados]

It would be teh awesome if they were wire guided...alas, no. They fire in a stream and will act more like an ultra AC if you move while it's firing. The remaining un fired missiles in that burst will fire where the reticle is pointing when you press trigger. You'll end up with a horizontal line of missiles if you twist while you squeeze off a burst. But they fire real fast so it shouldn't affect you too much. It will prevent pop tart MRMing, though. That tactic won't be effective as it'll spread the missile stream too much.

[Brain Cancer]

Tarogato, on 10 July 2017 - 03:06 PM, said:

I'd much rather see it the other way around. Streaks should have worse tracking and a chance to miss, so that they don't obliterate lights. With that nerf in place, they can be given better spread characteristics to be more useful against heavier mechs so they aren't universally useless or cheesy one-trick--anti-light-ponies.

Streaks are literally designed around not missing.

And nothing that doesn't minimize spread to as little as possible is going to be more than a niche, MRMs included. As any missile chucker can tell you, a hit to a non-vital component may as well be a near miss for all the good it does you in killing a target. Streaks actually are the closest thing to how SRMs operate in TT. They're also the poster child for how effective spread is in neutering a weapon- and similar systems go to the same overkill options to try to compensate for your precision-delivered laser, PPC/Gauss, and AC damage.

Oh, and they can miss if there's something between them and you when fired- like another 'Mech or terrain, as they'll track straight into both.

[Tarogato]

Brain Cancer, on 10 July 2017 - 05:03 PM, said:

Streaks are literally designed around not missing.

Well, specifically, they're designed to not be able to fire until they can achieve hard lock. Technically, that's the only difference between them and standard SRMs in lore - they pretty much function identically, and standard SRMs are supposed to have equal homing capability, they're not dumbfire missiles like they are in MWO.

But I find auto-hit missiles to be a distinctly cheap and unfun game mechanic in MWO, especially because they completely nullify the evasive benefits of lights. If being nimble in a light can't allow you to dodge missiles, then why play a light? Why play a weight class that has a dedicated weapon system to hard-counter it? Especially when the person taking that dedicated anti-light weapon system can't use it effectively against heavier mechs - it spreads uselessly. I'd like to see streaks be balanced so that they aren't just anti-light weapons - so they are more useful in general, but also aren't automatic anti-light cheese.

[Andi Nagasia]

cool idea and all but this isnt at all how they worked in Lore,
they were unguided Missiles in every sense of the word,

now im all for new weapons being implemented with cool mechanics,
but it doesnt make sense for an unguided missile in Lore to have Advanced Guidance here in MWO,

[Khobai]

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but it doesnt make sense for an unguided missile in Lore to have Advanced Guidance here in MWO,

MRMs following the reticle is not really advanced guidance though. Thats primitive guidance at best. Streaks have what id consider advanced guidance.

But im against substantially increasing the velocity on MRMs because that just turns them into a ballistic weapon like SRMs. I think missiles should function radically different from ballistic weapons.

In my mind what seperates missiles from ballistic weapons is having some kindve guidance system. Whether its primitive or advanced. Both SRMs and MRMs should have some form of guidance I think.

Quote

But I find auto-hit missiles to be a distinctly cheap and unfun game mechanic in MWO, especially because they completely nullify the evasive benefits of lights. If being nimble in a light can't allow you to dodge missiles, then why play a light? Why play a weight class that has a dedicated weapon system to hard-counter it?

Its not really that cheap since you can press R to see a mechs loadout. And if a mech has streaks you simply keep your distance from it. And you can build your lights with longer range weapons to stay out of the effective range of streaks.

Its really no different then when im playing my direwolf, and I see a kodiak on the other team, and I know if the engage the Kodiak head-on im dead. The Kodiak just brutally hardcounters my Direwolf and I cant win that fight. So I decide not to try and engage the kodiak head-on where im at a disadvantage and instead wait for the opportune moment to attack when its in my favor.

It just comes down to picking your fights wisely. Dont pick fights that you dont have an advantage in. If you have to engage a streak mech wait till its distracted and fighting someone else then attack it. If its streaking someone else its not streaking you.

Edited by Khobai, 10 July 2017 - 06:53 PM.

[Hit the Deck]

What if we have:

• Dumb-fired: SRMs and Rockets (and NARC)
  
• Wire-guided: MRMs
  
• Fire and Forget: ATMs
  
• Lock-on: LRMs and Streaks

[Brain Cancer]

Tarogato, on 10 July 2017 - 05:35 PM, said:

Well, specifically, they're designed to not be able to fire until they can achieve hard lock. Technically, that's the only difference between them and standard SRMs in lore - they pretty much function identically, and standard SRMs are supposed to have equal homing capability, they're not dumbfire missiles like they are in MWO.

But I find auto-hit missiles to be a distinctly cheap and unfun game mechanic in MWO, especially because they completely nullify the evasive benefits of lights. If being nimble in a light can't allow you to dodge missiles, then why play a light? Why play a weight class that has a dedicated weapon system to hard-counter it? Especially when the person taking that dedicated anti-light weapon system can't use it effectively against heavier mechs - it spreads uselessly. I'd like to see streaks be balanced so that they aren't just anti-light weapons - so they are more useful in general, but also aren't automatic anti-light cheese.

Because mounting enough Streaks to murder a light leaves you with the most inefficient method of killing everything else.

Seriously, we didn't see Streakboats after the original nerf to the CT-seekers of yore until you could strap 30 or so on a single 'Mech. And even then, they're awful at killing anything bigger than 40 tons. It's a specialist, and it gets butchered by anyone with regular SRMs or most direct-fire weaponry who will casually burn it a new one. Heck, compare 30 standard SRMs being grouped into a bigger target vs. the inevitable scatterblast of a Streak.

The Streakboat works via overkill- the same 30 missiles from standard launchers will eviscerate something far bigger than the damage sprinkling guided launchers deliver. All of them. That's a drawback that keeps Streakboats from ever dominating- if their prey stays away, they're terribly weak opponents.

Edited by Brain Cancer, 10 July 2017 - 06:50 PM.

[Pjwned]

Khobai, on 10 July 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:

MRMs following the reticle is not really advanced guidance though. Thats primitive guidance at best. Streaks have what id consider advanced guidance.

I wouldn't consider reticle guidance to be advanced guidance either, but I'd still prefer to not have it on MRMs; at best I think SRMs should have it or SSRMs should be changed to that and SRMs would get a damage buff without any guidance.

Quote

But im against substantially increasing the velocity on MRMs because that just turns them into a ballistic weapon like SRMs. I think missiles should function radically different from ballistic weapons.

In my mind what seperates missiles from ballistic weapons is having some kindve guidance system. Whether its primitive or advanced. Both SRMs and MRMs should have some form of guidance I think.

I don't really see that as much of a problem myself honestly, since missiles (particularly MRMs) and ballistics have various pros & cons even if their usage is pretty similar.

Especially since MRMs fill in the rather large gap between shorter & longer range energy weapons, machine guns & much heavier ballistics, and SRMs & LRMs, I don't really see them as needing to fill a special role much.

Quote

Its not really that cheap since you can press R to see a mechs loadout. And if a mech has streaks you simply keep your distance from it. And you can build your lights with longer range weapons to stay out of the effective range of streaks.

Its really no different then when im playing my direwolf, and I see a kodiak on the other team, and I know if the engage the Kodiak head-on im dead. The Kodiak just brutally hardcounters my Direwolf and I cant win that fight. So I decide not to try and engage the kodiak head-on where im at a disadvantage and instead wait for the opportune moment to attack when its in my favor.

It just comes down to picking your fights wisely. Dont pick fights that you dont have an advantage in. If you have to engage a streak mech wait till its distracted and fighting someone else then attack it. If its streaking someone else its not streaking you.

Agreed but I still hate SSRM mechanics.

Edited by Pjwned, 11 July 2017 - 03:16 AM.

[Anjian]

This doesn't sound cool at all.

It reminds me of ATGMs in tank games without the swarming part.

Its annoying as heck.