48 replies to this topic

[MustrumRidcully]

It seems to me the main problem here is Domination, which puts the important point in No Man's Land. in other modes, it is quite feasible to ignore the open area and stay between buildings. Though that might only work if your comrades are willing to do so.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Paigan, on 12 July 2017 - 03:32 AM, said:

1.)
Pure brawling is a mindless and suicidal gamble and people who think that it is the "right" or preferable or so way to play are just as mindless.

2.)
The map is good for sniping. But only partly. I do it a lot.
But I just as much get sneaked upon by brawlers (if they really succeed is another story).
And the other day I bought a Linebacker, fitted it to be a brawler and the first map to come up was Frozen City.
With no brawling experience whatsoever, I found it EXTREMELY easy (AND FUN!) to sprint from cover to cover with the fast&fat kid until I got into brawling range. Was a very fun match and I killed 2 enemies with the brand new Mech in a completely unusual role.

Conclusion of those experiences:
It is a VERY balanced map with a VERY good mix of sniping possibilities and cover to allow approaching for brawling.

I think the actual "problem" with people complaining about the map is, that they can ONLY brawl and they are unable to use cover properly to approach. As I said: mindless.
Every map that is not a pure, 100% brawling map is "bad" in their opinion because on a balanced map, they would have to use tactical intelligence (which they do not posses) to get in range properly.

In short: Very balanced map. L2P.

Pure ******** coming from someone who probably plays nothing but clan PPFLD.

The problem with the valley is that you have two options for crossing: Take a kilometer-plus hard drive to the edge of the map, or pray that nobody is in position to spot you. There's not sufficient cover to cross without being butchered unless you're in a light or time it such that nobody is looking. It's doable, but it's generally not done.

There's a reason my preferred tactic on it is to take the west city and then hide in cover until all the pro MLG snipers get bored without targets to plink and rush in. Mostly because they're typically potatoes who can only stay calm and hit targets that can't shoot back.

[Phoolan Devi]

waterfowl, on 11 July 2017 - 01:36 PM, said:

frozen city 1.0 was a great brawling map with multiple lanes.

frozen city 2.0 is primarily a sniping map with no cover for brawlers and brawlets. For whatever reason the center of the map is a giant open area with no cover. The "city" is only located at the spawns. To get to the other team you have to walk in the open and get LRM'd and sniped to death, so teams just sit in their spawns and plink each other, until one team is crippled. It becomes especially egregious in the domination game mode. Why put an objective in an area with no cover? I don't want to sound harsh, but it feels like very little thought is put into what makes a map fun to play on. I've created my fair share of games and know how tricky it can be ... but it seriously feels like they just tried to make maps that look cool, rather than designing something dynamic and enjoyable.

Meanwhile, no matter what game mode it is, brawlers sit around with their {Richard Cameron} in their hands.

The solution is pretty simple. Add some highrise buildings to the center of the map. Make the city a place for fighting rather than a set piece you look at when you spawn.

PGI, this really needs to happen. If nobody can get around to it, give me your map editor and I'll do it for $5 an hour. I know how to keep poly counts below a certain #

I have a totally different experience on that map than you then, since 9 out of 10 times it is brawled out and only 1 out of 10 times you got those noobs on both sides sniping over the valley. I really enjoy this map since it gives especially wolfpacks a good opportunity to harass the enemy team. The old map was way too small and gave no opportunity to tactical play whatsoever!

[Zergling]

Gwahlur, on 12 July 2017 - 03:43 AM, said:

Far from a balanced map. Well, not far, but it's not balanced.
The two most balanced maps in the game are HPG and Mining Collective.

Lawl, HPG and Mining Collective are both primarily brawling range maps.

[LordNothing]

just add more ships to hide behind and call it a day.

[Weeny Machine]

Alexander of Macedon, on 11 July 2017 - 02:34 PM, said:

They just need to bring back the old Frozen City. I never understood why it was reworked to begin with.

I think their argument was that it was too small sized. But yes, I would like to have it back

[Nerokar]

Most time I have no problems to brawl on this map. The only problematical mode to brawl in Frozen City is Assault because of two preset fightingpoints for snipers. I you are a non-light brawler you need a lot of patience or a coordinated rush...
Even better if im in my LCT-PB. Then I vote for Frozen City or Polar Highlands realy often, because this are great maps for ECM squirrels. Ultimate fun with all those snipers, and bored brawlers ready to hunt you and plenty of space/cover to disappear.

And Frozen City Conquest is one of the greatest Mode/Map combinations in COM or LCT. You only have to rush the Central flag with >150 kph at the beginning and leave after cap or first contact, this forces enemies out of cover realy often...

The only map I realy hate as brawler is Alpine...

[Mechteric]

Frozen city skirmish and conquest tend to have good brawls. It's still better than Alpine in all other cases anyway.

[Lorian Sunrider]

El Bandito, on 11 July 2017 - 05:40 PM, said:

At T1, players can actually snipe from long distance with some accuracy. Below that, everyone is cross-eyed.

[Vonbach]

Just bring back old frozen city.

[STEF_]

Gwahlur, on 12 July 2017 - 03:43 AM, said:

Far from a balanced map. Well, not far, but it's not balanced.
The two most balanced maps in the game are HPG and Mining Collective.

apparenly "balanced", for u, means "brawl only"

[Magnus Santini]

Alpine is fine for brawling, you just have to figure out where to fight, how to get the team all there, and have to be careful running between the cover.

[Vonbach]

PGI needs to get over their obsession with making long range sniper maps. Sniper maps are just boring as heck to play.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Stefka Kerensky, on 12 July 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

apparenly "balanced", for u, means "brawl only"

HPG and Mining Collective have long sight-lines and good peeking points for snipers mixed with the close-quarters tangles. If you need an empty barren waste to snipe people in you're not a sniper, you're a tater with delusions. Sitting in one spot spamming ERLLas/PPC/Gauss at people stuck in open ground and thinking you're good is the direct fire equivalent of 900m lurmboats.

[Weeny Machine]

Stefka Kerensky, on 12 July 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

apparenly "balanced", for u, means "brawl only"

Seriously? You think that those maps are "brawl only"? Then you should reconsider your positioning

[Gwahlur]

Stefka Kerensky, on 12 July 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

apparenly "balanced", for u, means "brawl only"

Alexander of Macedon, on 12 July 2017 - 10:40 AM, said:

HPG and Mining Collective have long sight-lines and good peeking points for snipers mixed with the close-quarters tangles. If you need an empty barren waste to snipe people in you're not a sniper, you're a tater with delusions. Sitting in one spot spamming ERLLas/PPC/Gauss at people stuck in open ground and thinking you're good is the direct fire equivalent of 900m lurmboats.

Bush Hopper, on 12 July 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

Seriously? You think that those maps are "brawl only"? Then you should reconsider your positioning

I didn't even have to write the reply

[R Valentine]

Most people don't even know there is a tunnel in frozen ****ty. You have to go away from the fight, out of your own way, to find it, and even then it takes you nowhere. It won't even cross the map. Just moves you about 10 feet from the left from where you started. Completely pointless feature.

Remove the valley in between, make the tunnel connect the two ends of the map. Problem solved.

[R Valentine]

Zergling, on 12 July 2017 - 05:17 AM, said:

Lawl, HPG and Mining Collective are both primarily brawling range maps.

All this tells me is that your snipers don't have jump jets. If you had poptarts on either of those maps you'd be having a blast. Poptarting is king on Mining, HPG, and Bog.

[Koniving]

xengk, on 12 July 2017 - 02:18 AM, said:

I think we can try changing the dropzone.


Lance A get the old Frozen City spawn, while Lance B and C will be spawn across the gorge.
Lance A can play the map as ye ole Frozen City, utilizing the tunnel and all that jazz.
Team will have to decide to fight on separate side of the valley, or regroup to deathball but risk getting caught in the valley.
Fast mechs might even attempt to run across the valley to reinforce Lance A.

Estimate hot zone will be E7 and adjunct grids, between Lance B and C.
F4 for Lance A, with F3 tunnel providing flanking maneuver.
Survivor can cross the valley to join with their remaining force, or bunker down against the enemy if they are the sole survivor.

I think this is the best solution I read on the thread.
It gives us both the old and new frozen city, and that difference in experience is whether you spawn at A, B, or C.

[waterfowl]

xengk, on 12 July 2017 - 02:18 AM, said:

I think we can try changing the dropzone.


Lance A get the old Frozen City spawn, while Lance B and C will be spawn across the gorge.
Lance A can play the map as ye ole Frozen City, utilizing the tunnel and all that jazz.
Team will have to decide to fight on separate side of the valley, or regroup to deathball but risk getting caught in the valley.
Fast mechs might even attempt to run across the valley to reinforce Lance A.

Estimate hot zone will be E7 and adjunct grids, between Lance B and C.
F4 for Lance A, with F3 tunnel providing flanking maneuver.
Survivor can cross the valley to join with their remaining force, or bunker down against the enemy if they are the sole survivor.

this is a great idea... wish PGI would test it out.