48 replies to this topic

[Brain Cancer]

We had a mechanic that made standing still very unhealthy in FW.

Just have to cut it down a bit. Micro Longtom, every two minutes a 'Mech sized divot eats 300 damage. Problem solved.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Kiiyor, on 16 July 2017 - 10:42 PM, said:

I agree. There's an obsession certain players have with thinking that a push is the only viable and accepted method to fight a battle - no matter what is happening around them. I've started to recognize them by name now, and groan inwardly as soon as they start trying to whip everyone up into a frenzy. 30% OF THE TIME, IT WORKS EVERY TIME.

While there certainly is a time and a place for decent aggressive action, the majority of aggressive players fail to recognize when that is.

Often there is palpable resistance to someone calling for a push, yet Captain McChaaaaaarge Face will still belligerently sound the bugle knowing that the majority of the team isn't going to follow.

Or, they'll see 4 friendly blips around them, with the rest of the team spread to oblivion, and think that having the rest of the team watch them die will encourage them to follow.

Then, there's my favourite: the crazy brave charge. If the enemy has a firing line set up against you, the last thing you want to do is charge into the teeth of that Kraken, yet I've lost count of the number of times someone insists that we willingly have our own T crossed, instead of doing it the other way round.

"Nobody followed me!"

They did. Most (wisely) peeled off once they lost limbs and the ability to fight.

"That would have worked if you weren't coooooowaaaaaaards!"

Nope, wouldn't have. Maybe if there was someone calling targets, people were focusing those targets, and the enemy weren't doing the same, it would have worked, but most PUGS are never going to endanger themselves sufficiently to commit to focus fire.

Plus, many people seem to confuse good sense with cowardice. People in pugs are out for themselves - if you're relying on everyone else to wholeheartedly commit to your own ideas to provide you with your own glory, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

Sometimes, you need to let gradual attrition make more of an impact on the battle before you decide on drastic action, especially in a pug.

we have 15 Minutes ...and most all ending in 5-6 minutes and to many Players have the "General Custer syndrom" Fast glourious with Courage in the Desaster..Im will action Action Action like a Transformer C-Movie... More courage and Armor as Brain, less really good rushleader and tactical Warfare experience ...amny only will kills in fast Time and fast games to start the next grindgame ...not Good thrilled games the Target for this ..only fast Games for personel Grind and Rewards
Guys with Gaming ADHS better going to Unreal tourment or Counterstrike , Call of Dutxy or other fast Killcount games or by Mechs, HAWKEN is a very fast Game...and its give the real Cowards , stand with 100% assault in Base and wait of a last stand , hoping of many red dmageged Targets and use the Team as Metshield

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 18 July 2017 - 07:01 AM.

[Roughneck45]

Only if we get SPICE consumables.

I'd rather have arty and air resigned into dps area denial tools than pure damage dealers. Lower arty damage a lot and increase the duration so it bombards the area for 10 or more seconds. Make Air strikes fire streaks and do two passes with the jets targeting anything within a frontal cone.

Edited by Roughneck45, 18 July 2017 - 07:05 AM.

[Valhallan]

At least crazy eddie is aptly named. There are already worms in the swamp they just do nothing right now.

Nobody did orbital bombardment except in a few situations because the entire point of putting mechs/tanks/boots in was to take the infrastructure and materials intact, bombardment would've defeated the purpose. Smoke Kitties did it, look what happened to them .

Consumables should just be allocated tonnage/crit costs already, tie the strikes to the Command console, for dislodging camping nutters it's so much simpler to just add in the mech artillery weapons, Thumper cannons for the IS and Arrow IV for the Clans (other's need critsplitting so no dice). They are inferior to direct fire and even lurms in 1v1 due to their huge size and costs, but if the enemy tight deathballs or camps like a mofo they will easily earn their keep.

[Koniving]

Brain Cancer, on 17 July 2017 - 02:24 PM, said:

We had a mechanic that made standing still very unhealthy in FW.

Just have to cut it down a bit. Micro Longtom, every two minutes a 'Mech sized divot eats 300 damage. Problem solved.

Thing is...
PGI's Long Tom was a ******* nuke.
Battletech's Long Tom? Yes it's a 30 ton weapon with another 60 tons in the vehicle carrying it, trailers for ammo, etc.
But you have 10 shells per ton.
Each shell delivers 30x1, 20x6, 10x12 for a total of 270 damage. It is dispersed to the targets in the 90 meter diameter at 5 damage per 'section', scattered about to kind of give the impression of splash damage on mechs that might be trying to shield themselves as the blast occurs. Sure, it can knock you over if you're within 60 meters of the impact point; can... not guaranteed. But that's only 270 damage TOTAL...

Even if we double Battletech's Long Tom damage to 540... PGI's "Maximum damage" permitted to a single mech within THEIR 30 meter "impact point" is 1370 damage. BT's maximum splash point is 30 meters and it's 30 damage in 6 slices of 5 damage.

MWO Long Tom 30 meter point of impact....1370 damage. This is AFTER the reduction in maximum damage from unlimited to a damage cap.
Battletech Long Tom 30 meter initial splash area around point of impact: 30 damage... doubled to 60 damage to make up for 2x armor/structure in MWO.

Huh.

MWO's Long Tom's coded splash damage goes out to 270 meters from the center including the 30 meter 'impact point' (instead of 90 from the impact point in BT). Doesn't require a spotter (which is its own set of problems; the automatic fire is terribly exploitable), and in that 240 meters away from the center they reduced the damage from 700 to 300 per mech.



So, uh, yeah. Was it any wonder it was bad? We don't need micro Long Toms to get that desired effect. We can just use Battletech's Long Tom at 2x damage and for PGI to stop making **** up when making "big guns."

Side note: If we made it so that in faction warfare, each player has access to 2 Long Tom strikes after they die (where they can place it on the map), we would have a pretty tactically viable system... We'd also have 3 less strikes in 30 minutes. Preferably have a 'friendly' warning about where it is going to be and no locational warning to enemies (since it isn't terribly strong and much more 'focused').

Really would like Mech Mortars...

Edited by Koniving, 18 July 2017 - 07:58 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Roughneck45, on 18 July 2017 - 06:58 AM, said:

Only if we get SPICE consumables.

I'd rather have arty and air resigned into dps area denial tools than pure damage dealers. Lower arty damage a lot and increase the duration so it bombards the area for 10 or more seconds. Make Air strikes fire streaks and do two passes with the jets targeting anything within a frontal cone.

Bluevision™

Hell, it could even be the original heat vision...

The spice can flow!

I'm fine with DPS arty versus how we have it now--it more consistently fits the theme of what I think PGI was trying to accomplish(beyond a money sink).

[Insanity09]

There is a difference between defending a spot, and camping/hiding, at least in my mind.

Defending, to me, implies that you are aware of the enemy position, where they are moving up, and are actively shifting position to put yourself in the best tactical spot given the enemy's line of approach. A defense means that if called for, you will actually move to respond to new intel on the enemy approach. You might even move intentionally from one spot to another to draw the enemy in (and possibly give teammates a better shot).
You can form a valid firing line (meaning everybody knows approximately where to look, and has a preferred target (hopefully the same one) in mind for when the enemies move into view (which, because you have good intel, will be very soon, seconds rather than minutes).
There are all sorts of responses possible when you are truly defending, and yes, many of them can work quite well.


Sadly, people are very rarely actively defending, instead, they do the following...

If you're just waiting behind a ridge or around a building or holding a static position, you are camping/hiding. You are (foolishly?) hoping the enemy will just obligingly walk into your gunsights in the best possible way for you. If you hold a single small area, pacing back and forth behind your favorite building/hill, you are camping, not defending.
A camper firing line is a bunch of people getting ready to play random whack-a-mole as enemies pop up, and they usually don't coordinate at all when multiple targets appear (the camper firing line works well enough when the enemy isn't pushing, but is dithering and playing hide-and-peek towards your position)

If you take up a "defensive" position without knowing where the enemy is or where they are approaching from, you aren't defending, you are camping, particularly if you take the position (non-domination) even before you have contact with the enemy. That's serious optimism, at best.
If your team refuses to adjust when the main thrust of the enemy is communicated, they aren't defending, they're hiding.


At times the difference is subtle, but a true, effective defense is flexible, not static.

[Jingseng]

if theme is a problem, replace sandworms with elementals/kneecapper infantry

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

nope; theme is perfect. may shai hulud clear the path before you.