278 replies to this topic

[Kiiyor]

Deathlike, on 15 July 2017 - 12:18 AM, said:

I believe you are totally ignoring that era of the overnerfed PPC-Gauss in which laservomit was yelled to the high heavens to being the most dominant option once the overnerf PPC-Gauss era started. I'm sure it'll take a year for some people to catch up (maybe 60 to 90 days at least).

You will be changing your tune soon™ enough.

I'm not ignoring that at all - I remember it well.

I vastly prefer it to the PPFLD meta, and laser vomit isn't as strong now as it was then - even with incoming tech.

And this still ignores the fact that you still can run PPFLD. You just have to deal with the ghost heat on mechs that had pretty bloody good sustain in the first place.

[Deathlike]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 15 July 2017 - 12:26 AM, said:

Long live SWOL. The SWOL power rankings was the best contribution ever made by SWOL to MWO.

Entertainment was had by all.

Brief AWOL Summary was like: Those scrubs were inferior, plus there were no notable players.

[Gas Guzzler]

Shifty McSwift, on 15 July 2017 - 12:26 AM, said:

And laser vomit alphas may be very high or have been at least, but that is a whole other story, they function much differently and just took some overall nerfs, and will likely take more. The high damage lasers are generally also becoming high burn, so it may make things more interesting.

That's what they said during the PPC/AC5 meta, then we had the laser vomit meta and the opinions changed to "at least PPC/AC5 was just 30 damage instead of the 60-80 damage of laser vomit".

[Deathlike]

Kiiyor, on 15 July 2017 - 12:27 AM, said:

I'm not ignoring that at all - I remember it well.

I vastly prefer it to the PPFLD meta, and laser vomit isn't as strong now as it was then - even with incoming tech.

And this still ignores the fact that you still can run PPFLD. You just have to deal with the ghost heat on mechs that had pretty bloody good sustain in the first place.

The problem with the upcoming change is that you're really taking that combo off the table - it just means other combinations will be fielded... and most of what were options were inferior in some ways (PPC+ACs not as strong, CERPPCs+CUACs are not poptart compatible, most LBX is not really PPC/CERPPC compatible).

Laservomit (with Gauss) as currently constituted (despite some adjustments) will be a lot more prominent, like the meta that followed said nerf.

Literally, we'll be back to the same old arguments about "boring laservomit meta with weak/inferior competition" for about a year.

The funny thing is that some of the SRM nerfs have made laservomit brawling a thing (though that got nerfed a bit last month), but then we still have 6+ SRM6s on Huntsman (can't do that as safely on a smaller IS chassis).. so, you should really think this through more.

Edited by Deathlike, 15 July 2017 - 12:33 AM.

[Carl Vickers]

Oh the complaints when ebons were running 2 large pulse and 6 ermids, im sure we wont see them again.

[Y E O N N E]

Snowbluff, on 14 July 2017 - 09:51 PM, said:

Not if you have 2 PPC to go with them >:3
Also the better refire means you aren't totally helpless up close

Nah, it was still mediocre. So heavy it requires XL to stay mobile on the Heavy class (325 for 75 ton 'Mechs). On PTS, the better way to go was a Gauss Rifle, an ER PPC, and a Light PPC. That gave you the same 30 damage but shaved five tons off of the build, getting it down to 25 from 30. You still had 25 points of damage below 90 meters, you could now fit an LFE of the same rating, and the heat was significantly better.

With the coupling, though, and assuming you can only fire two of either Gauss or PPC together, I suspect we'll see twin HPPC or an HPPC with a Gauss dominating the IS lineup. Which is still just 30 damage. For Assaults, you might see 2x HPPC with 2x AC/5 or, more likely, 2x UAC/5. That could be nasty. Fits on a BNC-3E easily or most any NSR variant comfortably. Kind of a heavier version of the WHM-6R.

Clans are going to be all about the twin Gauss. And...the Night Gyr with 2x Gauss and an ERPPC may not actually get hit that hard. Fire one 40+5 volley, lean on the Gauss for a little longer, repeat.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 15 July 2017 - 12:38 AM.

[meteorol]

Deathlike, on 15 July 2017 - 12:18 AM, said:

I believe you are totally ignoring that era of the overnerfed PPC-Gauss in which laservomit was yelled to the high heavens to being the most dominant option once the overnerf PPC-Gauss era started. I'm sure it'll take a year for some people to catch up (maybe 60 to 90 days at least).

You will be changing your tune soon™ enough.

I'm almost willing to bet the guys who complained about gauss/ppcs during the last months can be found complaining about laservomit earlier in MWOs balance cycle if someone cares to search through their post history.

They will be in for a harsh awakening once their cried for nerf comes into effect, and they get their face wrecked just as hard... and they have to cry for laservomit to be nerfed. again.

Imo, the nerf just kills diversity once more. Laservomit is already strong right now. and it's used plenty. Having 9/10 gauss/ppc users switching back to laservomit/gaussvomit will make things even more onesided. The sad thing is, we already had the exact same thing happening. And people cheering for the same thing to happen again. Plenty of them probably among the saltminers when it happened the first time.

It's a terrible, terrible decision.

[DGTLDaemon]

Carl Vickers, on 15 July 2017 - 12:31 AM, said:

Oh the complaints when ebons were running 2 large pulse and 6 ermids, im sure we wont see them again.

An Ebon Jag with 2xLPL+4xERML is already hot AF, and will become even hotter with the upcoming patch. So if you wanna run 2xLPL+6xERML and fire once every 5 minutes, you're welcome to do it. This build is barely manageable on the Marauder IIC which is 20 tons heavier.

[Gas Guzzler]

DGTLDaemon, on 15 July 2017 - 12:36 AM, said:

An Ebon Jag with 2xLPL+4xERML is already hot AF, and will become even hotter with the upcoming patch. So if you wanna run 2xLPL+6xERML and fire once every 5 minutes, you're welcome to do it. This build is barely manageable on the Marauder IIC which is 20 tons heavier.

That build was extremely good. I agree it might now be a bit too hot with the extra 1.8 heat per alpha.... nah probably not, it will still be good. Worse case drop an ER ML.

Barely manageable lol the MAD-IIC loves that build. 28 DHS sure is nice. I'm kinda liking the SNV-1 with 2 LPL and 6 MPL and 29 DHS now, that thing is gonna run cool as a cucumber at 4.75 heat for the MPLs.

[Vxheous]

DGTLDaemon, on 15 July 2017 - 12:36 AM, said:

An Ebon Jag with 2xLPL+4xERML is already hot AF, and will become even hotter with the upcoming patch. So if you wanna run 2xLPL+6xERML and fire once every 5 minutes, you're welcome to do it. This build is barely manageable on the Marauder IIC which is 20 tons heavier.

The 2/4 Ebon isn't hot, it can usually do 2 alphas + 1/2 alpha before heat cap....2/6 can do 1 full alpha + 1 2/4 alpha before heat cap. Mad IIc can do 2 full 2/6 alphas before heat cap. The heat is easily manageable, not to mention the fact that CERML is getting it's full 2x range back, which means mechs can safely peek/poke at longer range while getting out there damage.

Like Gas said, 2LPL/6MPL runs ridic cool, and both the Mad IIc and the Supernova can run those builds with 29 heatsinks

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 15 July 2017 - 12:46 AM.

[Vonbach]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2017 - 12:25 AM, said:

LOL jokes on you because now there will be more DPS on the field. What you and others don't seem to get is your "fun" is going to be killed regardless, you just don't know it yet.

I don't mind getting DPS to the face so long as my opponent earns it.

[Deathlike]

DGTLDaemon, on 15 July 2017 - 12:36 AM, said:

An Ebon Jag with 2xLPL+4xERML is already hot AF, and will become even hotter with the upcoming patch. So if you wanna run 2xLPL+6xERML and fire once every 5 minutes, you're welcome to do it. This build is barely manageable on the Marauder IIC which is 20 tons heavier.

I've seen the superlaservomit.

The thing is, they are burst-oriented and tend to be fielded with Double Coolshots (which is also getting nerfed). They are still going to be fairly prominent... mostly in part due to Clan DHS (for all the obvious reasons over IS).

I don't see them going away... they will simply be less effective, but are still very strong in their own right.

[Gas Guzzler]

Vonbach, on 15 July 2017 - 12:46 AM, said:

I don't mind getting DPS to the face so long as my opponent earns it.

Lol, its always earned unless lock-on weapons are used, then its only half earned.

[Carl Vickers]

DGTLDaemon, on 15 July 2017 - 12:36 AM, said:

An Ebon Jag with 2xLPL+4xERML is already hot AF, and will become even hotter with the upcoming patch. So if you wanna run 2xLPL+6xERML and fire once every 5 minutes, you're welcome to do it. This build is barely manageable on the Marauder IIC which is 20 tons heavier.

The posts above from Vx and Gas pointed some things out and im going to point something else, double coolshot 27 for 50% of your heat cap.

Bang, you're still dead.

[DGTLDaemon]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2017 - 12:41 AM, said:

Barely manageable lol the MAD-IIC loves that build.

Mine currently has a heat management of 1.22, and I'm pretty sure you can't stuff any more heatsinks in even with a smaller engine (I'm using XL350). That's pretty hot in my book. Before engine desync, I used to run 2xLPL+5xERML+XL380 on my MAD-IIC, and it played much better in my opinion. That's the build that got me to P14 on the MAD-IIC leaderboard. 2xLPL+6xERML just feels overgunned to me.

Quote

I'm kinda liking the SNV-1 with 2 LPL and 6 MPL and 29 DHS now

So am I, but it's gonna lose a bit of alpha with the next patch, although it will gain some heat efficiency. Not sure whether it'll become better or worse as a result.

[Carl Vickers]

Im doing wayyy better with my Ebon 2 large pluse and 4 med pulse than with 4 ermeds.

Same for Maruder 2c with 2 large pulse and 6 med pulse.

[Vxheous]

Carl Vickers, on 15 July 2017 - 12:48 AM, said:

The posts above from Vx and Gas pointed some things out and im going to point something else, double coolshot 27 for 50% of your heat cap.

Bang, you're still dead.

coolshots get nerfed...but still. The only real downside to the 2/6 Ebon is the reliance on the left torso high mounts, which can get picked. Otherwise, full alpha when cool, 2LPL/4ML when hotter, and cycle weapon groups when riding the dragon.

[Carl Vickers]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 15 July 2017 - 12:53 AM, said:

coolshots get nerfed...but still. The only real downside to the 2/6 Ebon is the reliance on the left torso high mounts, which can get picked. Otherwise, full alpha when cool, 2LPL/4ML when hotter, and cycle weapon groups when riding the dragon.

Didnt know about the coolshot nerf but still, see my post above yours.

[Gas Guzzler]

DGTLDaemon, on 15 July 2017 - 12:50 AM, said:

Mine currently has a heat management of 1.22, and I'm pretty sure you can't stuff any more heatsinks in even with a smaller engine (I'm using XL350). That's pretty hot in my book. Before engine desync, I used to run 2xLPL+5xERML+XL380 on my MAD-IIC, and it played much better in my opinion. That's the build that got me to P14 on the MAD-IIC leaderboard. 2xLPL+6xERML just feels overgunned to me.


So am I, but it's gonna lose a bit of alpha with the next patch, although it will gain some heat efficiency. Not sure whether it'll become better or worse as a result.

2 LPL 6 ER ML is a great build on the MAD-IIC, with XL375 and 28DHS it runs nice, it will likely be a little bit hotter now. I might move some skills around to get some more heat efficiency, but its still big alpha and perfectly manageable.

It will probably be better as that is a substantial drop in heat, and you only lose 3 damage off of the alpha... 66 vs 69... meh.

[DGTLDaemon]

Carl Vickers, on 15 July 2017 - 12:51 AM, said:

Same for Maruder 2c with 2 large pulse and 6 med pulse.

Yeah, since the last patch LPL+MPL vomit has become an interesting alternative to traditional LPL+ERML laser vomit. I'm rather enjoying my MAD-IIC-8 with 2xLPL+5xMPL, too. It's a pity it'll lose some of its alpha in a few days, although improved heat efficiency might compensate that.