278 replies to this topic

[Jay Leon Hart]

Meh, a few builds will need tweaking, but nothing of import was lost here.

Why so serious?

[Bud Crue]

Two points about this whole gauss/PPC thing:

I didn't care about Gauss/PPC except for the fact that the IS had no mech with the hardpoint height to bring it effectively.
Now that the IS is getting a mech that can...they nerf the combo as a whole. WTF?

Gauss/PPC as a system/combo was not the problem. Gauss/PPC on just three specific mechs, was the problem.
The nerfs they applied to Night Gyrs, Kodiaks and Mad-IIcs encouraged the peak and poke long distance snipe fests that we've all come to expect. Those mechs are perfect to run gauss/ppc, and every thing PGI did to knock them back only reinforced the "problem" of gauss/PPC meta. Make em slow, then better stay back and snipe cuz ya can't twist. Take away their structure, well ya better stay back so you don't lose weapons. Maybe I should try something different, nope...they nerfed UACs and energy too. Etc. Everything PGI did exacerbated the "problem". Now this.

Gauss/PPC was not the problem, rather, PGI's limited ability to balance and utter lack of foresight when putting in big mechs with excellent hard points relative to other mechs is/was the problem.

[davoodoo]

Was gauss/ppc so broken though?? im yet to see gauss erppc pulling ahead of tried and tested dakka kdk3 and laservomit ebj.

I dont oppose this change because muh poptart, i oppose this change because i dont like to see alphas being reduced which not only makes for poor mechwarrior game, but also makes heavier mechs unviable and go on link larges to mediums, youll see medium mechs being dominant...

Edited by davoodoo, 15 July 2017 - 03:59 AM.

[DGTLDaemon]

But look on the bright side: instead of running the obvious 2xGauss+2xERPPC build on the Mad Cat MkII someone (like yours truly ) might actually try running it with quad PPCs. With the velocity buff PGI are giving the PPCs the lack of quirks compared to the Warhawk might not be that much of an issue. So not everything is lost for the PPFLD crowd

[H I A S]

Mcgral18, on 14 July 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

I mean...it's already competing

Now they're removing competition...there you go
Supernova is just nasty

PGI is again months too late.

NlGHTBlRD, on 14 July 2017 - 09:11 PM, said:

PPC+Gauss was the counter to laser vomit, RIP, LONG LIVE LASER VOMIT!

finally they got boring point and click **** back. gg PGI, you just dont can handle balance.

Edited by H I A S, 15 July 2017 - 04:06 AM.

[davoodoo]

DGTLDaemon, on 15 July 2017 - 04:04 AM, said:

But look on the bright side: instead of running the obvious 2xGauss+2xERPPC build on the Mad Cat MkII someone (like yours truly ) might actually try running it with quad PPCs. With the velocity buff PGI are giving the PPCs the lack of quirks compared to the Warhawk might not be that much of an issue. So not everything is lost for the PPFLD crowd

No one will, too hot and erppc spread dmg.

Its still better to pack gauss and erppc.
Higher amount of sustained dmg.

[Luminis]

davoodoo, on 15 July 2017 - 04:06 AM, said:

No one will, too hot and erppc spread dmg.

Its still better to pack gauss and erppc.
Higher amount of sustained dmg.

Aye, but the comparison to the Warhawk does have merit. Firing PPFLD weapons two by two can still bring a lot of hurt. Despite some people acting as if PGI had locked out the option to mount Gauss Rifles and PPCs on the same 'Mech altogether...

[Sjorpha]

I can understand the salt about killing the PPC/gauss combo, and realize that it really IS killed by this in the sense of competitive choice, yes you can "still use it" bla bla bla but it was always the combined PPFLD volley that pushed into comp territory as I understand it. Yes it will be replaced by other high alpha options and yes it was an interesting counterplay against laser vomit.

BUT...the main point here as explained in the patch notes is one of design space limitations. The combo made it difficult for PGI to make PPCs and/or gauss worth it on their own. I think this is a very valid argument for the change. Maybe you have a different solution that would also work but at the very least acknowledge that there is a potential upside to this with the velocity increase of ERPPC being the first reward to be reaped.

Dual ERPPC may be a better extreme range counter to ERLL now, something that the gauss/peep combo actually wasn't doing that well because of the lower ranges and velocity limitations (talking about the 1000-1300+ meter trading here, extreme ranges, I know it worked well at the more common 6-800m long ranges)

Now think about jumpjets.

What was the rationale behind the big JJ nerf a few years ago? The PPFLD poptarting problem.
What kept the PPFLD poptarting boogieman alive to this day? Gauss+PPC combo.

So there is now design space opened not only for the weapons but also for a buff/unnerf to jumpjets, no it's not in this patch but it's something we can legitimately ASK for now without "poptarts blablabla" being a real argument anymore. That's good right?

Edited by Sjorpha, 15 July 2017 - 04:19 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

It doesnt ruin the combo.. it really just makes it poptart much worse tbh. 4 ERPPC is already a totally usable combination, and that has to be careful to shoot the weapons separately. this just closes the gap between the builds, imo, making it now a straight trade between ease of use and dissipation vs much less heat generation and greater pinpoint.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Expectation: Yay! PPFLD is dead with the gauss/PPC nerf!

Reality: Laser vomit is now OP! Nerf! PPC + (u)AC OP! Pls nerf!

[Birthright]

This balancing is so ****, srsly game gets worse with every patch.

[davoodoo]

Snazzy Dragon, on 15 July 2017 - 04:22 AM, said:

Expectation: Yay! PPFLD is dead with the gauss/PPC nerf!

Reality: Laser vomit is now OP! Nerf! PPC + (u)AC OP! Pls nerf!

expectation: linking lpl/erll to ermed/mpl will fix lasers being op

reality: laservomit heavies arent worth playing go back to hbk2c with 6 mpl...

Edited by davoodoo, 15 July 2017 - 04:25 AM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

The clan salt from this made up for all the disappointment about civil war tech being mostly mediocre or bad.

[TWIAFU]

El Bandito, on 14 July 2017 - 08:09 PM, said:

Good! And I say that as a MCII owner, cause too much PPFLD is bad news for game balance.

Next will be the Linebacker nerf.

[r4plez]

adapt or gtfo

[Gwahlur]

And many tantrums were thrown

[DiabetesOverlord Wilford Brimley]

meteorol, on 15 July 2017 - 12:36 AM, said:

I'm almost willing to bet the guys who complained about gauss/ppcs during the last months can be found complaining about laservomit earlier in MWOs balance cycle if someone cares to search through their post history.

They will be in for a harsh awakening once their cried for nerf comes into effect, and they get their face wrecked just as hard... and they have to cry for laservomit to be nerfed. again.

Imo, the nerf just kills diversity once more. Laservomit is already strong right now. and it's used plenty. Having 9/10 gauss/ppc users switching back to laservomit/gaussvomit will make things even more onesided. The sad thing is, we already had the exact same thing happening. And people cheering for the same thing to happen again. Plenty of them probably among the saltminers when it happened the first time.

It's a terrible, terrible decision.

I say we just start removing the complaining potatoes. Give them a Tier 7 option and they never ever get matched with the I can actually aim crowd.

[Gwahlur]

Anyone feel like throwing some tantrums over the increased heat on IS LPL's for me?

My favourite weapon :/

[DiabetesOverlord Wilford Brimley]

r4plez, on 15 July 2017 - 04:42 AM, said:

adapt or gtfo

That's what we have been telling the potatoes.... you all still have discovered that cover negates LRMS lololololol

[Battlemaster56]

Alexander of Macedon, on 15 July 2017 - 04:29 AM, said:

The clan salt from this made up for all the disappointment about civil war tech being mostly mediocre or bad.

You know this nerf also screw over the Nightstar before even comes out, a strong contender in the guass ppc builds for the IS.....