85 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Vonbach, on 15 July 2017 - 01:04 AM, said:

Lrms are nowhere near as effective as Gauss ppc and everyone knows it.

I know that. But apparently most of the population doesn't, because for every Gauss+PPC 'Mech it seems like there are two or three LRM boats firing their missiles at targets they couldn't even hope to hit.

[Vonbach]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 July 2017 - 01:06 AM, said:

I know that. But apparently most of the population doesn't, because for every Gauss+PPC 'Mech it seems like there are two or three LRM boats firing their missiles at targets they couldn't even hope to hit.

The amusing thing is the gauss ppc players seem to think they are better tier of player than a LRM boater. They are not.

[Deathlike]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 July 2017 - 01:06 AM, said:

I know that. But apparently most of the population doesn't, because for every Gauss+PPC 'Mech it seems like there are two or three LRM boats firing their missiles at targets they couldn't even hope to hit.

It's fine... laservomit and/or straight brawling or laservomit brawling will cure things now.

Can't improve bad decisions with moar LRMs after all.

Vonbach, on 15 July 2017 - 01:09 AM, said:

The amusing thing is the gauss ppc players seem to think they are better tier of player than a LRM boater. They are not.

You know there's a ton of mech builds and styles that are of a greater tier than an LRM boater? (like, virtually most good builds?)

[Gas Guzzler]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 July 2017 - 01:06 AM, said:

I know that. But apparently most of the population doesn't, because for every Gauss+PPC 'Mech it seems like there are two or three LRM boats firing their missiles at targets they couldn't even hope to hit.

There are that's why I think Vonbach's "every match is a boring 800m snipe fest" comment is factually incorrect or at a bare minimum massively over-exaggerated, presumably because PPC/Gauss has violated his safespace on occasion, hence the "toxic fun killing garbage" tear fest.

Vonbach, on 15 July 2017 - 01:09 AM, said:

The amusing thing is the gauss ppc players seem to think they are better tier of player than a LRM boater. They are not.

Lol, this is just a sad comment.

[Carl Vickers]

Vonbach, on 15 July 2017 - 01:09 AM, said:

The amusing thing is the gauss ppc players seem to think they are better tier of player than a LRM boater. They are not.

The really amusing thing is the lurmers actually thinking they are useful for more than 5% of a match.

[Y E O N N E]

Vonbach, on 15 July 2017 - 01:09 AM, said:

The amusing thing is the gauss ppc players seem to think they are better tier of player than a LRM boater. They are not.

There exists no combination of words to adequately express how ridiculous this statement is, and likely not for the reasons you will undoubtedly think I am implying.

[Kin3ticX]

People include LRMs for the sake of LRMs(because lore) but they are a classic FOOS strategy. I don't knock people for using them but I complain like anyone else. For those that dont know, a FOOS strategy is something in a game that takes zero skill and has decent power. New players have to win sometimes. You can either use it forever or pick up other stuff and move on. Using a FOOS forever isnt exactly wrong but you hit a wall sooner.

[Vonbach]

Your tears are delicious. Thank you.

[Kin3ticX]

Vonbach, on 15 July 2017 - 01:09 AM, said:

The amusing thing is the gauss ppc players seem to think they are better tier of player than a LRM boater. They are not.

Actually tier 1 is a big swath of players pretty much ~240 avg matchscore and up. If they dont have tier 1 yet they will have it with enough additional matches. Which means someone with a 1.0KDR and a 1.0WL is equal to say...Proton (prtnspz), the greatest player in the game.

[Carl Vickers]

Vonbach, on 15 July 2017 - 01:18 AM, said:

Your tears are delicious. Thank you.

And your ignorance must be blissful, thank you.

[Deathlike]

Vonbach, on 15 July 2017 - 01:18 AM, said:

Your tears are delicious. Thank you.

I see them all the time on LRM boats though... /shrug.

[Kin3ticX]

For the record, I am not asking PGI to reverse its decision, I am just saying lets give Gauss Rifle a standard face value instead of ghost heat. (an equivalency)

[Deathlike]

Kin3ticX, on 15 July 2017 - 01:28 AM, said:

For the record, I am not asking PGI to reverse its decision, I am just saying lets give Gauss Rifle a standard face value instead of ghost heat. (an equivalency)

Check back in 2x-3x-4x 60 to 90 days.

[Nik Reaper]

Hm, as far as I can see it , this only kills 2ppc+Gauss combo, the 2Gauss+ppc only generates 33.67 heat on alpha, twice it use to but still usable, so you get 2 alphas before you start group fire or just the gausses...

Edited by Nik Reaper, 15 July 2017 - 01:51 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Kin3ticX, on 15 July 2017 - 01:28 AM, said:

For the record, I am not asking PGI to reverse its decision, I am just saying lets give Gauss Rifle a standard face value instead of ghost heat. (an equivalency)

Like equivalent heat to ghost heat? I don't think that is necessary... Like you already pointed out its short on DPS and is outperformed by other loadouts in quick play. A nerf may be justified, but not something that large.

[Kin3ticX]

Nik Reaper, on 15 July 2017 - 01:50 AM, said:

Hm, as far as I can see it , this only kills 2ppc+Gauss combo, the 2Gauss+ppc only generates 33.67 heat on alpha, twice it use to but still usable, so you get 2 alphas before you start group fire or just the gausses...

or just have gauss rifles make their own heat

[Luminis]

Okay, so I don't quite know how to feel about this. This is the exact "fix" I proposed to the Gauss / PPC issue a while back but, to be fair, I never expected PGI to actually follow through with it. Let me also say that I do believe taking Gauss / PPC down a notch wasn't a bad idea in general. It's easy to call it "balance by potato", but I don't think that loadout performed worse the higher the average skill level in a game became. I know there's potato players complaining about it, but that in and of itself doesn't mean a nerf is unwarranted.

The upsides, to me, are pretty clear - some of which have been stated by PGI themselves in the patch notes, even: They can now balance both weapons better without addressing the combo (not sure why the cERPPC received a nerf if it wasn't overperforming outside of the PPFLD combo), they can stop nerfing 'Mechs into the dirt because they have the tonnage and hardoints to combine both weapons (which is the primary reason I'd rather the weapon combo nerfed than have PGI continue doing that) and maybe, just maybe, can turn Jumpjets up a notch again.

I also don't quite subscribe to the idea that PPFLD, or the Gauss / PPC combo is dead. The Night Gyr ought to be able to do 2 Gauss + 1 PPC despite of Ghost Heat, presumably, if a little less efficient. And the quad PPC Warhawk also shows that having to stagger fire your weapons two by two isn't the end of the world either - Gauss / PPC still has upsides compared to that.

That said, the downside I'm expecting here is rather simple: Build diversity. While the change probably won't kill the Gauss / PPC combo, it might take it down far enough that another build supersedes it completely, namely Laser /Gauss Vomit, what with the recent changes to cERMLs and IS ERMLs being released. Laser Vomit will have a field day, as will AC + PPC on the IS side. Big downside, in my opinion, because those builds are all doing fine and run around by the dozen as is. As good as PPC / Gauss is, this'll take a chunk of diversity out of the game.

Kin3ticX, on 15 July 2017 - 02:04 AM, said:

or just have gauss rifles make their own heat

I have a feeling PGI won't do that because that lowly one point of heat is the Gauss Rifles trade mark... For better or worse.

[Pjwned]

Kin3ticX, on 15 July 2017 - 12:13 AM, said:

Why not just give gauss rifles base heat instead of tip toeing around it with a bizarre linkage? Isn't just adding base heat the same thing except that it isn't invisible to the player?

Just because Sarna or some ancient TRO says 1 heat doesn't mean it works in a shooter.

Because that impacts gauss rifle builds that don't abuse the unbalanced state of convergence to deliver huge amounts of pinpoint, frontloaded damage to 1 spot with ease at all times.

Increasing gauss rifle heat would be like the SCR & TBR negative omnipod quirks all over again, which were hated (for good reason, because that was a sloppy, lazy fix, just like ghost heat as a whole) and impacted builds that it shouldn't have. If you want to increase gauss rifle heat--especially by enough that it would actually change anything without gauss & PPCs being linked for ghost heat--then you need to argue why gauss is unbalanced in any remotely decent build and not just when combined with PPCs.

The proper solution to all this is still to fix convergence by the way, but as long as we have this garbage ghost heat system in place then it might as well be put to some use to counter (by far) the most egregious abuse of stacking PPFLD weapons.

[Antares102]

Vonbach, on 15 July 2017 - 01:09 AM, said:

The amusing thing is the gauss ppc players seem to think they are better tier of player than a LRM boater. They are not.

You are amusting mate. Gauss/PPC actually requires skill compared to LRMs which require little to none.
I am sorry, but this is what I think of you:

[Shifty McSwift]

Antares102, on 15 July 2017 - 02:22 AM, said:

See to me the notion of the potato doesn't refer to ones choice of weapon, but as to how they play and react, if you are sitting in pretty much the same spot all game, stuck in tunnel vision mode (no matter what guns you have), and mostly getting (b)eaten, and all the while being salted heavily/heavily salted, then you qualify as a potato, or turnip, or whatever, it is hard to argue otherwise when in practice it is what you represent, and we are all prone to doing it too.

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 15 July 2017 - 02:29 AM.