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Do The Win Conditions Mean Anything To You ?


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#21 Kin3ticX

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 07:58 PM

If anyone doesn't understand why space nerd politics is important I think I an explain it in the purist sense.

Phase 3 and 4 basically gave our leader, Antonius Rex, nothing to do, nothing to do at all. CW just became 24/7 tukayyid 1 faction vs 1 faction drops and that was that. Your choice is just Clans or IS and then hit launch. This is still a big problem now.

If Antonius Rex is scheming because CW has vibrant space politics, that means he is keeping 100+ players hyped up and cranking matches.

When Antonius Rex walks away from the product, that told a unit of 400+ people that PGI jacked it up bad and it was time to slow down and maybe do something else.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 17 July 2017 - 08:03 PM.


#22 Khalcruth

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:20 PM

View PostOldbob10025, on 17 July 2017 - 07:40 PM, said:

The win conditions for the clans will take A LONG TIME..

Getting Luthen and Tharkad will be somewhat easy but to take Davion/Liao/or marik will just be about a year game play just to take them.


I would call that a good thing. What fun would be if a side (any side) could win in just a week?

#23 Carl Vickers

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:42 PM

View PostKhalcruth, on 17 July 2017 - 10:20 PM, said:


I would call that a good thing. What fun would be if a side (any side) could win in just a week?


Perhaps you could ask the old MS what that felt like as they used to change the map on a weekly basis back in CW 2. ;p

#24 naterist

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:43 PM

if they can have insta triggered events around capitals, then they should be able to do instant events for other planets too right? and im assuming these events will have rewards themed for the planet and stuff, so why not let a handful of the other more important planets have triggerable events too?

like a battle of hesperus, with a bunch of steiner mechs up for grabs as rewards, or the battle of coventry? could be a good stepping stone to better things all around. that way how you get to the enemy planet isnt a long bore, you can make detours to get minor rewards and things again on route. and inbetween let the qp fanbpys go back to focusing on qp and the derious guys can grind it out for a week or 2 and get us to the next event (im assuming that pgi takes my idea and sprinkles the map eventually with a lot, aka shitons, of planets with triggerable events).

#25 Oldbob10025

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 01:05 AM

View Postnaterist, on 17 July 2017 - 11:43 PM, said:

if they can have insta triggered events around capitals, then they should be able to do instant events for other planets too right? and im assuming these events will have rewards themed for the planet and stuff, so why not let a handful of the other more important planets have triggerable events too?

like a battle of hesperus, with a bunch of steiner mechs up for grabs as rewards, or the battle of coventry? could be a good stepping stone to better things all around. that way how you get to the enemy planet isnt a long bore, you can make detours to get minor rewards and things again on route. and inbetween let the qp fanbpys go back to focusing on qp and the derious guys can grind it out for a week or 2 and get us to the next event (im assuming that pgi takes my idea and sprinkles the map eventually with a lot, aka shitons, of planets with triggerable events).



Hold on now that would take some thought and insight about Faction Warfare... You cant expect them to do that. Faction Warfare although a good concept is a dead horse head under your blanket. Best Idea is to scrap the whole thing and allocate your resources to another concept they can do freely and get it right..

SOLARIS 7

#26 Commander A9

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 08:08 AM

What does one Faction gain for winning a phase? Lots of C-Bills and MC?

If there is no prize...what IS the point?

#27 QueenBlade

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 08:15 AM

Pretty much on point there Commander A9.

Without some sort of prize for winning the season, the Victory Condition is an empty feeling.

I'm happy to see PGI put in a Victory Condition, but sad that they forgot the rest of my idea for it.

"Upon completing these objectives, the unit with the most impact towards a faction’s victory will receive rewards that they can show off next season.

If Clan win:
Loyalist
Leader: Title, Decal, and Camo - ilKhan
Unit members: Title, Decal, and Camo - ilClan
Mercenary
Leader: Title, Decal, and Camo - Colonel
Unit members: Title, Decal, and Camo - Wolf’s Dragoons

If House win:
Loyalist
Leader: Title, Decal, and Camo - First Lord
Unit members: Title, Decal, and Camo - Star League Defense Force
Mercenary
Leader: Title, Decal, and Camo - Colonel
Unit members: Title, Decal, and Camo - Wolf’s Dragoons"

#28 Kin3ticX

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 11:56 AM

View PostQueenBlade, on 18 July 2017 - 08:15 AM, said:

Pretty much on point there Commander A9.

Without some sort of prize for winning the season, the Victory Condition is an empty feeling.

I'm happy to see PGI put in a Victory Condition, but sad that they forgot the rest of my idea for it.

"Upon completing these objectives, the unit with the most impact towards a faction’s victory will receive rewards that they can show off next season.

If Clan win:
Loyalist
Leader: Title, Decal, and Camo - ilKhan
Unit members: Title, Decal, and Camo - ilClan
Mercenary
Leader: Title, Decal, and Camo - Colonel
Unit members: Title, Decal, and Camo - Wolf’s Dragoons

If House win:
Loyalist
Leader: Title, Decal, and Camo - First Lord
Unit members: Title, Decal, and Camo - Star League Defense Force
Mercenary
Leader: Title, Decal, and Camo - Colonel
Unit members: Title, Decal, and Camo - Wolf’s Dragoons"


I dont think rewards do anything.

The mode has to be fun enough to to play on its own merit.

#29 50 50

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 06:53 PM

View Postnaterist, on 17 July 2017 - 11:43 PM, said:

if they can have insta triggered events around capitals, then they should be able to do instant events for other planets too right? and im assuming these events will have rewards themed for the planet and stuff, so why not let a handful of the other more important planets have triggerable events too?

like a battle of hesperus, with a bunch of steiner mechs up for grabs as rewards, or the battle of coventry? could be a good stepping stone to better things all around. that way how you get to the enemy planet isnt a long bore, you can make detours to get minor rewards and things again on route. and inbetween let the qp fanbpys go back to focusing on qp and the derious guys can grind it out for a week or 2 and get us to the next event (im assuming that pgi takes my idea and sprinkles the map eventually with a lot, aka shitons, of planets with triggerable events).

That was my thought as well.
The system is allowing us to trigger events.
One would think that it should then be possible to have a variety of different events for the different conflicts that could be triggered using the same sort of system.
At the moment it's just the capital planets.
But it's not a stretch to think we could have a bunch of worlds out there that server as strategic targets that could trigger a similar event, or even making a recognition between what might be a bit of a skirmish on the borders to one faction taking multiple planets from another and thereby 'declaring war'.

It is one step towards giving the players some control over what it going on.

Where I am a bit concerned is in the time it might take.
After the release and reset from Phase 2 I saw the starting territory held by Ghost Bear pretty much stripped back to it's capital in the first 24 hours. In a game that crosses time zones, it's hardly encouraging to see everything lost without even getting a chance to defend it because we may be sleeping or at work or whatever while it's all going on.
Either the whole process needs to be slowed down, so we have a more prolonged campaign for each planet like a week or only contest a single planet at a time (instead of 4).
Or Faction Play needs to be broken up over the servers so that over a 24 hour period we can look at the results from all three servers and then determine what happens.

That said, if we get an event and a map reset in the first week or so, I will laugh hysterically.

View PostCommander A9, on 18 July 2017 - 08:08 AM, said:

What does one Faction gain for winning a phase? Lots of C-Bills and MC?

If there is no prize...what IS the point?


Be nice to either vote for a buff to the faction for the next phase, or a debuff to an enemy faction.
But that is at Faction level.
At a unit level?
Getting to put your initials on the planet is hollow and the MC reward should be something else.
I would think that the better option would be to work on something more in the reputation and loyalty systems.
ie. If we can spend those points on something that grants us a personal bonus, then getting a big juicy loyalty or reputation reward would work nicely.

Edited by 50 50, 18 July 2017 - 07:02 PM.


#30 Ductus Hase

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 12:51 AM

I will keep playing - probably even be a bit more into it.

Being a Steiner Loyalist at heart, holding Tharkad always has been important to me... even before win conditions and possible rewards. Being able to seize a homeworld is quite intriguing.

Some friends of mine announced to take an interest in FP again because of the conditions.

#31 FallingAce

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 10:05 AM

The one buckit system makes it all meaningless.
The "win conditions" require 1 side to dominate the other.
If the 2 sides are balanced you'll end up with a perpetual stalemate.
The "win conditions" are a broken game mechanic, just like the tug-o-war is a broken game mechanic.

#32 Ghostryder

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 06:53 PM

Just a friendly reminder...The standard has been set. The name of this site is mwomercs,com. While there is some nods to 'balance' and lore, the name is unchanged. There are very few benefits to being Clan or IS loyalists-which is why PGI is so confused. The core value of the company is already set-Loyalty to a faction is not a priority. They want people to play and buy mechs. Period. As a member of a lore based unit, I can say that faction loyalty is a far distant concern. Don't get me wrong, I fully agree with a business model that is designed to make money, but don't peddle the ********. This, the Mech community, understands that. What PGI fail to understand is the brilliance behind the original Lore (All you lore haters can go smoke whatever new game strikes your fancy), and the loyalty it inspires in certain factions. PGI decided to go with Mercs as a loyalty. Until they cross that hurdle, this will be the same tired 'why are things this way' argument. So embrace the suck, if you don't like how it is being managed, show them with your feet. Otherwise, nut up and be part of the solution. There are some very good ideas on how to fix it-I mean face it, this is STILL not a finished game. The variables are too broad, and the community would not accept a hard stop anyway. We want continued development, more maps, more balance. It all takes time and money. But use the power YOU have. Don't buy the new mech pack until new maps are released-I know the devs work hard, but YOU are the damn CONSUMER ( I include myself in that, wishing I had bought the Bushwhacker).
PGI, stop with the eye candy and get some new maps ffs...Hell, just expand the territories on the maps you have now! And for the love of GOD, develop an MRBC interface that actually CONTROLS Merc contracts.
Rant done. I need bourbon and a tylenol. By the way, won't be revisiting this post. MWO forums are less than optimal. Happy reading.

#33 Jack Booted Thug

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 09:03 AM

Win conditions other than killing 48 enemy mechs?


never heard of them

#34 DarklightCA

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 11:07 AM

I think putting out some actual objectives is a good start but there has to be something to incentivize players to go for them. Without that it's planet tags all over again without planetary rewards. Tagging a planet was fun for like a week but without the incentive nobody cared about planetary conquest or planet tags.

Without something to reward players for completing the objectives, why would anybody really bother?. I like QueenBlades suggestion of giving something to show off for a unit or units that achieved the most progress towards these objectives on the winning side. There is also needs to be a general reward for the rest of the units/players that actively played during that time.

If PGI actually continued along this plan to adding/updating objectives, adding rewards for achieving them and adding possible consequences for failing them. They would actually bring something to Faction Play that would help differentiate it from Quick Play and help possibly maintain some form of interest in playing it.

#35 50 50

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 06:58 PM

Few different levels to think of when looking at rewards.

Personal rewards.
We obviously get c-bills and xp.
The loyalty point and reputation point systems would be great to improve on.

Group rewards.
More of a 'while we are fighting' kind of reward and that starts to become more about the modes and objectives.
Without changing these... not much can be done at this level.

Unit rewards.
At the moment units are only a name. There is no substance behind that.
That could all change as soon as we could add bonuses to the unit that provides a benefit to it's members.
However, we don't have any features in the game at the moment that we can add benefits for that will not make a mess of the combat balance.

Faction rewards.
There is nothing currently in the game that does anything for the faction.
Capturing a planet gives some weak reward to a unit, but means nothing to anyone outside of that unit.
The 'Space Nerd Politics', as Kin3tiX refers to, might be more of a player driven effect, but could be backed up with some Faction level buff or debuff.
We have (and had) the voting system to pick which planets to attack or which faction we were going to fight against.
Without having some different victory options beyond just capturing a planet, there is no other faction level effect that we can use to as part of 'Space Nerd Politics' and I would agree that this would be a great option for Faction Play.

#36 Ghostryder

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 07:20 PM

View Post50 50, on 20 July 2017 - 06:58 PM, said:

Few different levels to think of when looking at rewards.

Personal rewards.
We obviously get c-bills and xp.
The loyalty point and reputation point systems would be great to improve on.

Group rewards.
More of a 'while we are fighting' kind of reward and that starts to become more about the modes and objectives.
Without changing these... not much can be done at this level.

Unit rewards.
At the moment units are only a name. There is no substance behind that.
That could all change as soon as we could add bonuses to the unit that provides a benefit to it's members.
However, we don't have any features in the game at the moment that we can add benefits for that will not make a mess of the combat balance.

Faction rewards.
There is nothing currently in the game that does anything for the faction.
Capturing a planet gives some weak reward to a unit, but means nothing to anyone outside of that unit.
The 'Space Nerd Politics', as Kin3tiX refers to, might be more of a player driven effect, but could be backed up with some Faction level buff or debuff.
We have (and had) the voting system to pick which planets to attack or which faction we were going to fight against.
Without having some different victory options beyond just capturing a planet, there is no other faction level effect that we can use to as part of 'Space Nerd Politics' and I would agree that this would be a great option for Faction Play.

A couple of things, 50/50-Although I don't disagree 100%- Faction wise you are absolutely correct. The rewards for loyalists are weak, and I still haven't figured out why Mercs get those (except for the actual name of the game being mwomercs.com) In my mind, mercs should have a completely separate reward tree than Loyalists, but I digress..Points 1 and 2 are...on point. We still get paid.
Which then shifts individual responsibility to the teams, the ORGANIZED teams, to establish events (For Clans there are things like Trials of 'insert event here", and specific Trials for each Clan (Ghost Bear has a Clawing ritual based in Lore). It comes down to this. How dedicated are individual teams wed to the lore itself, how do they address the issues between lore and reality, and how much effort do they want to dedicate to making it both useful and (above all) fun for their members?
Want to be dominant and be part of a well oiled machine? Find a merc unit that has no loyalty to any faction(s). Want to be part of a community that has rules and codes of conduct, join an organized team. I am not advocating one over the other, just advising there are choices. And that is the beauty of this genre. It is YOUR choice. YOU get to pick what you want. It has a very loose foundation on the game itself. It comes down to the community you decide is right for you.

As for rewards...Are they tangible, meaning you get paid in money/XP, or intangibles meaning you keep coming back. As a firm believer in both, I'll go with option 2. Community and fellowship come first. Option one will happen. Just my nickle

#37 50 50

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 07:29 PM

The Mercenary system could be reworked a little and I think there is opportunity to create better unit to unit interactions and build on the community aspects.

#38 QueenBlade

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 08:56 AM

View Post50 50, on 20 July 2017 - 06:58 PM, said:

Few different levels to think of when looking at rewards.

Personal rewards.
We obviously get c-bills and xp.
The loyalty point and reputation point systems would be great to improve on.

Group rewards.
More of a 'while we are fighting' kind of reward and that starts to become more about the modes and objectives.
Without changing these... not much can be done at this level.

Unit rewards.
At the moment units are only a name. There is no substance behind that.
That could all change as soon as we could add bonuses to the unit that provides a benefit to it's members.
However, we don't have any features in the game at the moment that we can add benefits for that will not make a mess of the combat balance.

Faction rewards.
There is nothing currently in the game that does anything for the faction.
Capturing a planet gives some weak reward to a unit, but means nothing to anyone outside of that unit.
The 'Space Nerd Politics', as Kin3tiX refers to, might be more of a player driven effect, but could be backed up with some Faction level buff or debuff.
We have (and had) the voting system to pick which planets to attack or which faction we were going to fight against.
Without having some different victory options beyond just capturing a planet, there is no other faction level effect that we can use to as part of 'Space Nerd Politics' and I would agree that this would be a great option for Faction Play.


Personal rewards: Rank should increase payout from contracts. A Rank 1 in any service should not make the same as a Rank 5, 10, 20, etc.
Dropping into matches under tonnage, i.e. 265 available, 230 used gives a % increase towards Loyalty / payout.

Unit rewards: Tagged Planets, defending/attacking planets with your unit tag will grant a % increase to loyalty / payout.

Faction rewards: Using House specific mechs should grant bonus' to loyalty / payout.


Edit: I believe these are small changes that can be implemented with little to no change in current assets.

Edited by QueenBlade, 21 July 2017 - 08:57 AM.


#39 DarklightCA

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 10:56 AM

I would be in favor of getting rid of the LP system as a personal reward system and use it as a unit one. Units increase in LP rank, every member contributes LP to that rank and every rank grants your unit bonus payout. Can add consequences to it like losses decrease some LP.

If they made the objectives visual on the FP map, got rid of the planet cap. I would consider picking up Faction Play again, especially if the combination of increased unit payout and planetary conquest sparked more units to come back to it and more players to create/join units.

#40 FallingAce

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 09:31 PM

10 phases into the new season, neither side has won a single planet. At this rate, how long till we get to the "win conditions"?





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