109 replies to this topic

[Bigbacon]

Viktor Drake, on 20 July 2017 - 06:11 AM, said:

12 tons for 8 "Heat Free" damage. You also forget the faster projectile speed which makes the Light Gauss easier to hit with. Also you can never have too much range or have you never played the snipe fest that always seems to take place on Polar for at least half the match. Also since you don't seem to realize this, its ammo count is exactly the same as the AC/10 so there is no ammo disadvantage by using a Light Gauss.

Also people like to bring up the "Standard Gauss does nearly twice the damage for only 3 tons more" but 3 tons is 3 more ER MLs or 3 more DHS or 3 more tons of ammo, etc, etc. 3 tons can equal quite a bit of advantage or in the case of lighter mechs with less free tonnage to play with, lots of disadvantage. Also there is the charge up to consider. Light Gauss has a very fast charge up that I almost don't notice. Standard Gauss on the other hand is slow enough that it isn't exactly uncommon that by the time your ready to fire, you don't have a target. That is pretty huge as well.

heat overall is not really a mechanic of the game because you can vomit lasers for 40+ alpha and not instantly die from overheats, hell you don't even need to worry most of the time until alpha strike #3 or 4.

[Nimnul]

Punk Oblivion, on 19 July 2017 - 06:29 PM, said:

MRM's. I actually like them. BUT they all need to be lighter in weight. I think that change alone would bring them into the right spot. My thoughts:
MRM10: 3 tons
MRM20: 6 tons
MRM30: 8.5 tons
MRM40: 10 tons
These weights roughly put the damage per ton between the SRM and SRM+ART damage per tons.
So basically you trade a tight cluster for extra range.

Weapons should serve their purpose. Reducing the mass will not do anything. Here it is necessary to reduce heat and spread. It can not compete with lasers. The damage to which goes to the point.

Edited by Nimnul, 20 July 2017 - 08:29 AM.

[Garfuncle]

Heavy Guass is an incredibly potent weapon, but also incredibly limited in viable builds on mechs that can take it. The only mech I think that can have them and be a viable, incredibly deadly, weapon system is the Annihilator. Std 300, 2 Heavy Guass, 5mpl. 80 point alpha strike.

I find that 1 Heavy Guass is not worth it, but neither is just 2 of them on their own. The Annihilator, with its low engine cap, can have a max 300 engine, 2 HGRs, and the necessary supplementary lasers. The closest mechs that can attempt HGR builds are the Mauler and the Cyclops Hero. But those simply don't have the tonnage to do it like the Annihilator can.

[Zergling]

Dakota1000, on 19 July 2017 - 05:03 PM, said:

Light gauss has to charge up, it explodes, it only does 8 damage, it has a pitiful DPS of 2.13.

Light Gauss DPS is actually worse than that; smurfy's page that lists its DPS doesn't include the charge up time, which I estimate to be 0.5 seconds, versus regular gauss charge up at 0.75 seconds.
That means the LGR DPS is just 1.88, while regular Gauss has 2.61 DPS.

So the Light Gauss has 72% of the DPS of the regular Gauss, while being 80% of the weight. In other words, it has a worse DPS/ton ratio than the regular Gauss.
Which is just bizarre; for every other weapon family, smaller weapons have greater DPS/ton than the bigger weapons.
Even the Heavy Gauss matches that pattern, having better DPS/ton than the regular Gauss.

Near as I can tell, the minimum buff the Light Gauss can receive to be any sort of 'balanced' is to reduce its cooldown from 3.75 seconds to 3.00.
That will raise its DPS to 2.29 and give it a higher DPS/ton than the regular Gauss.

[FupDup]

Zergling, on 20 July 2017 - 09:04 AM, said:

Light Gauss DPS is actually worse than that; smurfy's page that lists its DPS doesn't include the charge up time, which I estimate to be 0.5 seconds, versus regular gauss charge up at 0.75 seconds.
That means the LGR DPS is just 1.88, while regular Gauss has 2.61 DPS.

So the Light Gauss has 72% of the DPS of the regular Gauss, while being 80% of the weight. In other words, it has a worse DPS/ton ratio than the regular Gauss.
Which is just bizarre; for every other weapon family, smaller weapons have greater DPS/ton than the bigger weapons.
Even the Heavy Gauss matches that pattern, having better DPS/ton than the regular Gauss.

Near as I can tell, the minimum buff the Light Gauss can receive to be any sort of 'balanced' is to reduce its cooldown from 3.75 seconds to 3.00.
That will raise its DPS to 2.29 and give it a higher DPS/ton than the regular Gauss.

To confirm, Weapons.XML shows the LGR charge-up being exactly 0.5 seconds.

[Shadowomega1]

While I agree that the L. Gauss could use a slight bump in its cooldown, the weapons makes up for its lower damage in both range and damage per ton of ammo. Tested it on a Jaeger mech and had have it with 998m Optimal range, and just over 2Km max range with a projectile speed just over 2500 MPS.

[HIGH LORD KIT FAWKS THE WATCHFUL]

*Grumble* Wont let me fit a heavy gauss on my UM..

STD60, UAC20, 3 tons ammo. Near max armor.

Challenge accepted.

Wish they'd drop that slot requirement on HG.

[Punk Oblivion]

Teer Kerensky, on 19 July 2017 - 08:18 PM, said:

I often cancel out the shot just when Im about to fire, I don't know why, does the sound play wrong or is the charge duration different. I don't do that with my clan gauss mechs.

I also have this issue! Never have the issue with regular or light gauss. But I release too soon all the time on Heavy Gauss... Unless the charge is a bit longer on the HG?

Nimnul, on 20 July 2017 - 07:07 AM, said:

Weapons should serve their purpose. Reducing the mass will not do anything. Here it is necessary to reduce heat and spread. It can not compete with lasers. The damage to which goes to the point.

They DO serve their purpose. Everyone wants them to be a long range, high damage SRMs, but they are NOT SRMs. But if they keep reducing heat and spread then SRM's become irrelevant and useless. MRM's should be a stepping stone between SRM's and LRM's. Basically a weapon that can strip armor at longer ranges, but still be able to maim a stripped mech at closer ranges. And in that roll the MRM's Excel.

I have never had heat issues with them once. But reducing tonnage on them also frees up tonnage for more heatsinks if that IS an issue for you.

[Wil McCullough]

Punk Oblivion, on 19 July 2017 - 06:29 PM, said:

I have not used ALL the new weapons yet, But I would not say there are any "useless" weapons.

light machine gun.

[FupDup]

Wil McCullough, on 20 July 2017 - 05:20 PM, said:

light machine gun.

The Light MG is orders of magnitude better than the LB 2-X and Light Gauss.

[Punk Oblivion]

Wil McCullough, on 20 July 2017 - 05:20 PM, said:

light machine gun.

WHAT!?!?! LMG is a near godly weapon on certain chassis!
I have had near 1K damage matches with:
Jm6-DD with 2 RAC5's and 4 LMG's
BJ-Arrow with 2 LPL's and 6 LMG's


Edit: I will give you that it is a lame weapon by itself though. Got to stack them to make them work well.

Edited by Punk Oblivion, 20 July 2017 - 05:45 PM.

[Tyroki]

I know that the only good thing going for RAC5's right now is blinding the enemy, but for ***** sake!
Can we tone that crap down?

[Wildstreak]

bbihah, on 18 July 2017 - 05:03 PM, said:

I found a uac20 on the hunchie was a lot better. But i could see the Hgauss being decent enough in it.

UAC20 HBK-4G is same as AC20, you just get the option to do the same damage faster with jam risk.

[jss78]

Yup, LMG's are pretty useful on slower 'mechs where you want to complement mid-range weapons, and don't have the speed to work into point-blank rear arcs. I'm also loving a quad-mount on the Jager DD to complement autocannons.

The ones I think are truly useless are the new LB-X's. The old LB-10X is at least one slot less and one ton less, so there's a modicum of balance as a short-range weapon. But the LB-2/5/20 weigh same as the base variant and take MORE slots.

What they get is a bit more range and quite a bit velocity. So you can hit really well at the range where you no longer do appreciable damage...

How about that pellet damage increase? And/or ammo switching?

Edited by jss78, 20 July 2017 - 06:13 PM.

[Wildstreak]

Yeah, I love how all (Clan and IS) LBX gets faster velocity then IS LBX20 gets better than LBX10 or Clan LBX10/20.

[Pixel Hunter]

yeah Mrm seems pretty bad. needs the same chain fire but a huge amount less spread. like 2

[davoodoo]

Bigbacon, on 20 July 2017 - 06:36 AM, said:

heat overall is not really a mechanic of the game because you can vomit lasers for 40+ alpha and not instantly die from overheats, hell you don't even need to worry most of the time until alpha strike #3 or 4.

You do realise that 40+ alpha

like for example
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...198a03acead35af
this 65 point alpha, would be HEAT NEUTRAL if we had tt heat management?? I would need to throw in another 3 lpls to overheat it...

Also lgauss isnt **** because heat doesnt matter, lgauss is **** because 25% extra tonnage buys you 87.5% extra dmg.

Edited by davoodoo, 20 July 2017 - 06:34 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

yeah Mrm seems pretty bad. needs the same chain fire but a huge amount less spread. like 2

MRM30 x4 mechs already do devastating damage for very little heat

tightening the spread just makes that worse

thats one aspect of MRMs that doesnt need to be improved

Edited by Khobai, 20 July 2017 - 06:35 PM.

[davoodoo]

Khobai, on 20 July 2017 - 06:34 PM, said:

MRM30 x4 mechs already do devastating damage for very little heat

Define very little

9 heat per mrm30 so 36 without ghost heat.

30 base + 20 from 10 engine dhs will give us 50 so 72% of bar and 5.5s before they can be fired for 2nd time without shutdown then 7.5s before next salvo.

[Khobai]

Quote

Define very little

120 damage for 36 heat is very little


if I changed anything about MRMs it would be buffing their ability to hit things at medium range like decreasing their volley delay, increasing their tube count, increasing their velocity, etc...

but I would not touch anything on MRMs that might make them hit even harder at short range like tightening their spread, thats a big no no. If anything I think they need to hit less hard at short range but be better at hitting things at medium range.

Edited by Khobai, 20 July 2017 - 08:31 PM.