88 replies to this topic

[Athom83]

KageRyuu, on 22 September 2017 - 01:49 PM, said:

The main issue with the RACs is that PGI refuses to allow older equipment to become obsolete. It's why SHS remove 1.2 HPS, why DHS outside of the engine remove 1.5, and why a weapon that should be 3 times more powerful than it's UAC counterpart is only marginally better in someways, (RAC2 vs UAC2) 5.82 DPS vs 5.56, 2 HPS vs 2.22, and overwhelmingly bad in others, 10s Unjam vs 3.5.
Frankly the balancing mechanic of RACs shouldn't be damage or unjam speed, it should be heat, after all if you're firing your weapon over 3 times faster than the equivalent UAC, one would expect 3 times the HPS, not under half as much damage per shot.
Personally, they should rename the RAC5 to the RAC2, and get on with making an actual RAC5, rather than trying to "fix" a system that has worked for far longer than most of them have likely been alive.

What they 'could' do to fix them is to increase the RAC/2 to around the current damage of the RAC/5, but give it an rng spreading of an LB that is cone-of-fire-esk (which may or may not grow larger the longer you hold fire) then buff the RAC/5 by 50% and also giving it spread. Currently they are too accurate but don't dish out as much firepower to make them feel like actual BT RACs. Oh, and then you could increase the heat generated by each by quite a bit to signify they should be a solo main-weapon like an UAC/20 (which the RAC/5 is supposed to be around in power. UAC/20 doing 40 damage a turn while the RAC/5 does 30 in TT).

[The6thMessenger]

Athom83, on 24 September 2017 - 06:06 PM, said:

What they 'could' do to fix them is to increase the RAC/2 to around the current damage of the RAC/5, but give it an rng spreading of an LB that is cone-of-fire-esk (which may or may not grow larger the longer you hold fire) then buff the RAC/5 by 50% and also giving it spread. Currently they are too accurate but don't dish out as much firepower to make them feel like actual BT RACs. Oh, and then you could increase the heat generated by each by quite a bit to signify they should be a solo main-weapon like an UAC/20 (which the RAC/5 is supposed to be around in power. UAC/20 doing 40 damage a turn while the RAC/5 does 30 in TT).

"Around" should be weaker than the RAC5, also the spread thing will make it just worse at a range which is it's main perk. I find it's current spread already fine.

With it's last adjustment to 3 GH limit, it would probably be okay to make it so that 3x RAC2 dps = 2x RAC5 dps, or 7.275 DPS or 1 damage/shot for the RAC2.

But that damage adjustment is just a band-aid solution, if it were to be more useful than it actually is, it needs to jam immediately on filled bar and then balance around that, because it opens the weapon up for a more useful trait.

Such as 5s of shoot-time but 4.5s jam-disspiation/duration so we don't have to worry in getting the most stare -- just wait and try again. Basically to work like that archetypal over-heating MG. This asinine "push over the redline" mindset as the key to make the RAC work is just a disservice considering the current meta, and mechanics of the game where minimizing your stare while maximizing damage is the key.

[Trenchbird]

I just realized the only reason I want Clan RACs in the game is so that the "PGI hates Clans" crowd can ***** about why their supposedly superior Clantech RACs are larger and more crit-heavy than IS RACs. (Granted, they get like, a third more range. IIRC.)

I think I'd enjoy that crapshow.

Edited by Catten Hart, 24 September 2017 - 09:26 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Red Shrike, on 18 July 2017 - 05:29 PM, said:

Well, I suppose the game rewarding the least amount of facetime contributes to the RACs being less than great.

Out of the, I don't know, 10 games or so I played this night, 8 or 9 of them were nothing but ridgeline poking. Brawling only started happening once the score was already 9 vs 3 and the brawl was really only people rushing in to get the kill or at least some extra damage.

Like you said just prior to this, rewarding constant facetime is pretty much a no-no for encouraging good play. If the best way to kill people was facetiming them until they fall over, then you end up deterring mechanics like twisting/dodging.

Much the same for ridgeline peeping (or rockabye sniping as I call it), I have spectated many that literally just find a hill and roll back and forth until the game is over, never twisting, never bothering to provide any other support, just rockabye baby until GG. Again, it is a playstyle that just runs counter to many of the better mechanics of the game.

That's not to say that hill poking and facetime weapons shouldn't exist at all though, both of these tasks work out very well for many lights and mediums, who utilise their movement speed to poke much more effectively, or who are in the close range brawls, facetime firing only when they are not the target of fire... These are good usages of those mechanics which can be so terribly utilised by others (who think they are being effective).

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

Personally I am having trouble securing kills in games with all the nerfs that have taken place. I can rake in the damage but someone else always gets the last shot in. RAC's are the only weapon that seem to provide me kills but without high damage. You have to be very precise with them for facetime but the reward is great. I am not that great at padding so you are right, it seems to suit me.

I ran a Mauler with dual racs 5's and 2's. For fun I'd fire a 5 and 2 to drill into people and if it Jams I'd spin up the other and when they fire, let go of the Jammed group. It's lots of fun and it's a serious bully. The Mauler normally gets most people to back down already but the rac's seal the deal.

Firing them I'd say is great but being hit by them I'd say reduce the impact flash effects. I don't think it should be so easy to blind people.

I just gotta find a way of not putting them on all my mechs. For IS dual gauss is great but the weight isnt' worth it, light gauss is useless and heavy gauss is tonnage sink (but again lots of fun).

[Nightbird]

RAC/2 needs 1 more dps, RAC/5 is perfect. These weapons offer dps far in excess of their tonnage requirements, they also blind like crazy, they need some drawbacks to keep them from becoming OP.

[Christophe Ivanov]

As with any weapon, Mech and all that, learn how to use them, then learn to use them well. A fighter Pilot is not an expert until he or she completes their training an that can take 1,000 of hours. Same for this game, takes time to use something well no matter how bad the user starts off at.

[Relishcakes]

I'm going to break the mold of people constantly angry about everything and say this: I feel like RAC's are in a good place. If you give them the face time you will be punished. If not, you're fine. they have an inordinately long spin up and seriously if you stand there for that long you probably deserve it.

[Shifty McSwift]

Relishcakes, on 25 September 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

I'm going to break the mold of people constantly angry about everything and say this: I feel like RAC's are in a good place. If you give them the face time you will be punished. If not, you're fine. they have an inordinately long spin up and seriously if you stand there for that long you probably deserve it.

Yeah they are kind of like heavy lasers, they are potato punishing guns, but that is not a good job for any gun to fill. The better idea, and I think they have partially achieved this at least, is; weapons designed for specific roles namely the ones that work out best for fighting assaults and the ones that work out best for fighting lights. Heavy lasers are most optimally used versus assaults with the general notion of assaults having the slowest twist speeds, similarly with racs, they work best on targets that are slow moving or conversely work well when used by fast moving mechs who can maintain that facetime aiming on the run.

The problem with that idea comes in when you consider the disparity in torso/move speeds among just the assault class, again with the meta mechs in mind, the kind of ideal I mentioned above is lost. And they just become potato punishing guns again.