24 replies to this topic

[eminus]

2 days now I rarely see lurmers in quick play, did the free mech NVA-S(C) spooked the lurmers?

[_Casper_]

I guess it is more the new brawl map in the queue that led to a reduction of Lurmers. The game is more fun now. Less Lurmers = less Polar = more fun

Now we finally need to get rid of Escort and Incursion. That would be great!

Edited by _Casper_, 26 May 2018 - 05:30 AM.

[eminus]

_Casper_, on 26 May 2018 - 05:28 AM, said:

I guess it is more the new brawl map in the queue that led to a reduction of Lurmers.

Solaris City? even in lurmer land Polar Highlands I can only see very few

[_Casper_]

Yeah sure. I don't have stats about it but it feels like Polar is less voted which is a natural consequence of less ppl playing lurms cause honestly who else than Lurmers and ppl who farm the vote multiplier are voting for Polar?

[eminus]

_Casper_, on 26 May 2018 - 05:58 AM, said:

Yeah sure. I don't have stats about it but it feels like Polar is less voted which is a natural consequence of less ppl playing lurms cause honestly who else than Lurmers and ppl who farm the vote multiplier are voting for Polar?

I vote for polar to test my NVA-S(C) but sadly I was not able to deplete my 8000 rounds of AMS unlike before with my Kit Fox

[Koniving]

eminus, on 26 May 2018 - 05:04 AM, said:

2 days now I rarely see lurmers in quick play, did the free mech NVA-S(C) spooked the lurmers?

Free mech means new thing to play.

Play with the new thing... less people with older things.

And this new toy, the Nova, can't run LRMs efficiently. So we'll see fewer LRMs.

[eminus]

Koniving, on 26 May 2018 - 06:20 AM, said:

Free mech means new thing to play.

Play with the new thing... less people with older things.

And this new toy, the Nova, can't run LRMs efficiently. So we'll see fewer LRMs.

interesting, that could be the case as I see a lot of people using Nova mechs including me LOL

[Koniving]

eminus, on 26 May 2018 - 06:45 AM, said:

interesting, that could be the case as I see a lot of people using Nova mechs including me LOL

There's only a single hardpoint for missiles as far as I know, and that's if that specific node is publicly available yet without owning the loyalty variant. So yeah.

[LowSubmarino]

While Solaris city isnt a bad map, it has design flaws. Even brawling maps should only facilitate brawling but completly cripple e.g. certain aspects of long range combat. Lrms are über situational, bordering on useless when playing LRMs. I dont use LRMs but I like that they punish ppl wandering over open ground and the threat they pose. On solaris city they are blocked by those 'high' ways or basically everything on the map. There are positions and angles and situations where ppl used them effectively but all in all the map is prolly the single most LRM unfriendly map in the game.

You see the effects when playing polar or alpine or frozen city....theres a significant reduction in LRMs. Maybe that was intentional. But since solaris city is so popular and lrms so bad on that map I would never take any lrms whatsoever. Way too much weight and such a weak weapon choice on that map. I mean....i always thought lrms are kinda trashy in mwo and just way too unreliable...but eoth that new map it seems their effectivess has reached a new low.

[Gwahlur]

Less lurmers hasn't been my experience at all

[Sorbic]

_Casper_, on 26 May 2018 - 05:58 AM, said:

Yeah sure. I don't have stats about it but it feels like Polar is less voted which is a natural consequence of less ppl playing lurms cause honestly who else than Lurmers and ppl who farm the vote multiplier are voting for Polar?

I can't count the number of times someone has lamented LRM'ers for voting Polar when that map starts only to go the whole game with barely any (or none/an obvious filler small LRM rack) LRM's being fired by either team. Instead I'll see a lot of long range DF. Unless you've got a NARC'er it's often not that great of a map for LRM's compared to long range direct fire weapons.

[That Dawg]

Oh the irony.

When the nova first came out, I had to have.
grinded like a nutter, threw money at it, bought all three...DAYS after I bought it, they nerfed it..
so, after trying every combo, I rage sold it..
then...they came out with "cool down" modules..and clearly, I'm an idiot, cause I thought cool down meant, you know, cooler, not faster actually more heat..
so of course, rebought some nova's
and course sold said novas..
been gone from the game over a year, pop in..and what greats me? a free mech
yay

wait...its that f'ing nova again??!?? well, maybe this time

[Asym]

We are always trying to get you 'all to want everyone to play MWO ! We have a small population of players and if you keep pushing LRM pilot away, they will not play and a small population get even smaller with > MM issues than there are....

Maps should be random in QP.

Solaris is for the brawlers and QP should be open the all with completely random maps. That way LRM and brawl guys get the luck of the draw.......some fairness.

I really don't play QP anymore because it's been all brawling for weeks now.... Not even on 2x exp days and I have mechs to master. I don't mind a few brawling maps but it's all that is ever selected, so screw it ! There are other games to play.

I'm one fewer player and there are 52 of us that really don't play on a regular basis anymore: too much senseless brawling. We had hopes the ePeen and Leader board experts would have stayed in S7 and left QP alone; but, that doesn't seem to be: Not enough "farming" in S7 it seems..... darn, we were hoping. Have to Tweet Russ again......

[Dimento Graven]

_Casper_, on 26 May 2018 - 05:28 AM, said:

...

Now we finally need to get rid of Escort and Incursion. That would be great!

No, absolutely not.

If nothing else they let us see how good the other game modes are, AND, I don't think Incursion is that bad, it just needs to be changed so that only one side defends and only one side attacks.

As far as Escort is concerned the VIP needs to be a lot more intelligent and stop seemingly random path that almost always walks him out into the bulk of the enemy guns...

Asym, on 26 May 2018 - 08:36 AM, said:

...

Maps should be random in QP.

Solaris is for the brawlers and QP should be open the all with completely random maps. That way LRM and brawl guys get the luck of the draw.......some fairness.

I really don't play QP anymore because it's been all brawling for weeks now.... Not even on 2x exp days and I have mechs to master. I don't mind a few brawling maps but it's all that is ever selected, so screw it ! There are other games to play.

Oh F no. You are so wrong.

Apparently you're relatively new around here, we had random maps for quick play and it sucked balls so much the majority of the player base demanded SOME SORT of control over what maps we dropped on, hence the current voting system.

Trust me, we DO NOT want to go back random maps, it will actually add MORE frustration for the players than otherwise.

Quote

I'm one fewer player and there are 52 of us that really don't play on a regular basis anymore: too much senseless brawling. We had hopes the ePeen and Leader board experts would have stayed in S7 and left QP alone; but, that doesn't seem to be: Not enough "farming" in S7 it seems..... darn, we were hoping. Have to Tweet Russ again......

Struggling to hard to not leave a derogatory comment here. Essentially if you're facing players who brawl well, or play the ranged game well and you're having a hard time countering them well enough to at least make the matches interesting, well, probably you need to change your tactics and maybe your 'mech load outs.

LRMs have always been a 'near the bottom of the skill barrel' type weapon anyway, and in my mind have always been a 'computer guided admission of "I can't aim by myself"', so there shouldn't be as many in game as there has been historically because most MWO players can aim and have sufficient skill to make ranged/brawl matches quite fun.

It's just that there's so many lazy players out there and it's OH SO MUCH MORE EASY to let someone else lock a target and then:

1. Put small circle in big square.
2. Wait for big circle.
3. Push the missiles button

When you have players demonstrating that they can do well with LRMs when controlling the mouse with their feet and/or literally mashing their face into the key board, or damn near pass out drunk (done that one myself, and got my first ace of spades)... c'mon man, it's a gimpy 'no skill/low skill' weapon that NO ONE should be proud of 'being good at'.

[Cloves]

Dimento Graven, on 26 May 2018 - 08:54 AM, said:

No, absolutely not.

If nothing else they let us see how good the other game modes are, AND, I don't think Incursion is that bad, it just needs to be changed so that only one side defends and only one side attacks.

As far as Escort is concerned the VIP needs to be a lot more intelligent and stop seemingly random path that almost always walks him out into the bulk of the enemy guns...

Oh F no. You are so wrong.

Apparently you're relatively new around here, we had random maps for quick play and it sucked balls so much the majority of the player base demanded SOME SORT of control over what maps we dropped on, hence the current voting system.

Trust me, we DO NOT want to go back random maps, it will actually add MORE frustration for the players than otherwise.

Struggling to hard to not leave a derogatory comment here. Essentially if you're facing players who brawl well, or play the ranged game well and you're having a hard time countering them well enough to at least make the matches interesting, well, probably you need to change your tactics and maybe your 'mech load outs.

LRMs have always been a 'near the bottom of the skill barrel' type weapon anyway, and in my mind have always been a 'computer guided admission of "I can't aim by myself"', so there shouldn't be as many in game as there has been historically because most MWO players can aim and have sufficient skill to make ranged/brawl matches quite fun.

It's just that there's so many lazy players out there and it's OH SO MUCH MORE EASY to let someone else lock a target and then:

1. Put small circle in big square.
2. Wait for big circle.
3. Push the missiles button

When you have players demonstrating that they can do well with LRMs when controlling the mouse with their feet and/or literally mashing their face into the key board, or damn near pass out drunk (done that one myself, and got my first ace of spades)... c'mon man, it's a gimpy 'no skill/low skill' weapon that NO ONE should be proud of 'being good at'.

If this is true at all then why do we have folks that have thousands of games played and are still tier 3 or lower? If they are so easy to use well then they would overwhelm the meta, instead they are anti meta. The reality is they do scale with skill, but they are also one of the few weapon systems with a huge number of counters, so most skilled players in most environments can alter their behavior to completely negate their ability to score damage, thus becoming suppression weapons at best at the top tiers. No championship game will ever be played on polar. Every other map has enough cover to neuter LRM damage with enough caution.


It not that they are so easy to use well (many folks failed the try hard challenge), it’s just that they rely on punishing mistakes and announce themselves, so are only dangerous to those who make said mistakes. In my mind I compare them to playing an ambush light. If the other player is good, I am hard countered, but if they are bad, they are Idaho prime.

[Dimento Graven]

Cloves, on 26 May 2018 - 09:20 AM, said:

If this is true at all then why do we have folks that have thousands of games played and are still tier 3 or lower?

Those are either:

A. Truly bad players
B. People who only play for the lols and are taking inefficient builds, and not caring if they win or lose.

Quote

If they are so easy to use well then they would overwhelm the meta, instead they are anti meta. The reality is they do scale with skill, but they are also one of the few weapon systems with a huge number of counters, so most skilled players in most environments can alter their behavior to completely negate their ability to score damage, thus becoming suppression weapons at best at the top tiers. No championship game will ever be played on polar. Every other map has enough cover to neuter LRM damage with enough caution.

"Scale with skill", LOL... whatever man, the skill is whether or not you have the ability to keep the small circle in the big square and push the button when you see the big circle. Sure, some people will waste less shots by realizing they shouldn't fire when the target is too far or too close, or hiding directly behind a very tall object, but other than that tiny bit of extra awareness, there's no "scale with skill" when it comes to LRMs.

BTW: MRBC used Polar in this season's map rotation...

It's a lazy weapon, one that is utilized by lazy players mostly during challenges. Ever notice how when a damage challenge comes up, MORE people are out there with their LRM builds throwing missiles willy nilly? Yeah, it's because it's easier to get damage hiding in the back utilizing other people's targeting to get that indirect damage.

Quote

It not that they are so easy to use well (many folks failed the try hard challenge), it’s just that they rely on punishing mistakes and announce themselves, so are only dangerous to those who make said mistakes. In my mind I compare them to playing an ambush light. If the other player is good, I am hard countered, but if they are bad, they are Idaho prime.

I can't speak to the circles you run in, everyone I know and have discussed it with completed that challenge.

SSRMs/LRMs, while not THE easiest weapons to use, are among the easiest and are near the bottom of skill requirements list.

It's why they are the preferred weapons systems of the people with visual impairment, the 'target' you have to 'aim' at is much larger (again, the small circle in the big square, wait for big circle, mash button).

[BTGbullseye]

Dimento Graven, on 26 May 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

A. Truly bad players
B. People who only play for the lols and are taking inefficient builds, and not caring if they win or lose.

C. People who left a long while back, and returned to find themselves at the bottom of T5 with no cadet bonuses to rely on for jumping up in PSR rating.
D. Light pilots.
E. People that help their team in ways that aren't shown by the match score system. (like delaying the enemy but dying really fast, sometimes a huge help on Conquest)
F. People who go about testing every mech they can, not worrying about their XP bar.

The rest of your rant is too starchy to bother with a detailed response.

[Cloves]

Dimento Graven, on 26 May 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

Those are either:

A. Truly bad players
B. People who only play for the lols and are taking inefficient builds, and not caring if they win or lose.

"Scale with skill", LOL... whatever man, the skill is whether or not you have the ability to keep the small circle in the big square and push the button when you see the big circle. Sure, some people will waste less shots by realizing they shouldn't fire when the target is too far or too close, or hiding directly behind a very tall object, but other than that tiny bit of extra awareness, there's no "scale with skill" when it comes to LRMs.

BTW: MRBC used Polar in this season's map rotation...

It's a lazy weapon, one that is utilized by lazy players mostly during challenges. Ever notice how when a damage challenge comes up, MORE people are out there with their LRM builds throwing missiles willy nilly? Yeah, it's because it's easier to get damage hiding in the back utilizing other people's targeting to get that indirect damage.

I can't speak to the circles you run in, everyone I know and have discussed it with completed that challenge.

SSRMs/LRMs, while not THE easiest weapons to use, are among the easiest and are near the bottom of skill requirements list.

It's why they are the preferred weapons systems of the people with visual impairment, the 'target' you have to 'aim' at is much larger (again, the small circle in the big square, wait for big circle, mash button).

The “circles I run in” is from this forum.

I stand corrected on the tourney, all the ones I watched where in places like canyon or hpg.

I am not claiming they need a steady hand, it’s just that they require positioning skills, opportunity creation, angle control. The very fact that some folks do poorly with them, and others can do 1900+ damage with 3 kills/8 assists, or 6 kills 4 assists, leads me to believe there must be some skill involved.

[Dimento Graven]

BTGbullseye, on 26 May 2018 - 10:16 AM, said:

...

The rest of your rant is too starchy to bother with a detailed response.

Truth hurts, eh?

Cloves, on 26 May 2018 - 01:44 PM, said:

...

I am not claiming they need a steady hand, it’s just that they require positioning skills, opportunity creation, angle control. The very fact that some folks do poorly with them, and others can do 1900+ damage with 3 kills/8 assists, or 6 kills 4 assists, leads me to believe there must be some skill involved.

Like I said, I can be damn near blind drunk and do "well" with LRMs.

What I've found to be MOST true when it comes to the outliers you're describing is, it's not a matter of the LRM boater's skill with his weapon, so much as how well the rest of his team does in targeting for him.

A LRM boater is NOT doing the damage you're describing without the rest of the team doing well enough to provide him the targets, open crit locations, and ability to sit back and mash the "all the missiles" button repeatedly. When his team does poorly, the LRM boater will do even worse, from what I've seen (then spend the match complaining about no one locking targets for him).

[Dragonporn]

Few points:
Don't get the hate for Incursion, what's wrong with this mode? Particularly for me it's one of the best modes. There are more victory opportunities than "kill them all" and mode is completely symmetric. So, what's the problem exactly?

And on Lurms, I seriously don't get all the hate. In solo QP in any tier they can be useful, and somebody who knows how to use them actually never relies on team locks, because most good lurmers run artemis on their builds, so it is quite commonly known that firing LRM at more than 400+ meter and without LOS is a waste of ammo. And yes, lurms work well on Solaris city too, if you know what you're doing. But still, it's a niche weapon, requires some know how and at higher tier never really gets abused. You can easily stomp lurm heavy team even on Polar, if you have a mic and some guts. Only thing this weapon mostly does (like several others) is punish bad team play, nothing else. Why some folks rage so hard about it is beyond me...

Edited by Dragonporn, 27 May 2018 - 04:49 AM.