83 replies to this topic

[Thaidron]

Recently, I have seen many advantages in the inner sphere, against the clan, an example of this is C PPC 14.5 heat / 10 dmg, I.S HPPC, 14.5 heat / 15 damage, what's the advantage? I think the ppc should be less heat against heavy ppc should be 11 or 12 heat, because currently it is very unbalanced

Edited by Thaidron, 18 July 2017 - 09:48 PM.

[Dr Hobo]

You're comparing two very different PPCs.

Compare the ERPPC vs the CERPPC then come back.

[Asmerak]

Thaidron, on 18 July 2017 - 09:47 PM, said:

Recently, I have seen many advantages in the inner sphere, against the clan, an example of this is C PPC 14.5 heat / 10 dmg, I.S HPPC, 14.5 heat / 15 damage, what's the advantage? I think the ppc should be less heat against heavy ppc should be 11 or 12 heat, because currently it is very unbalanced

...What do you mean, what's the CERPPC's advantage? Look at the slots and tonnage on the two weapons. There's your answer.

[Monkey Lover]

Clan ppc does to 15 dmg. It does 10+5splash
IS heavy ppc is 4 more tons.
IS heavy ppc takes 2 more slots.
IS heavy ppc has 600m less range.
Is heavy ppc is 420ms slower.
Is heavy ppc has 90min range

Dang the Is heavy ppc sucks when you really look at it. lol

Edited by Monkey Lover, 18 July 2017 - 10:14 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Compare the ERPPC vs the CERPPC then come back

Even that comparison favors IS.

ERPPC -> has absurdly faster velocity, shorter cooldown, lower heat, IS mechs have ridiculous PPC quirks (like +30% velocity)

CERPPC -> damn useless splash damage. and 1 ton and 1 crit less.

Edited by Khobai, 18 July 2017 - 10:30 PM.

[Greyboots]

C PPC does 15 damage, not 10. 10 pinpoint with 5 to adjacent components (same as HPPC and the cooldown for both is the same as well).

HPPC also has a minimum range of 90 and optimal range of 540 Vs clan no minimum range with an optimal range of 810.

HPPC weighs 10 tons and takes 4 critical slots while Clan ER PPC takes 2 slots and weighs 6.

HPPC has a 1200 velocity, Clan ERPPC has a 1500 velocity.

Thaidron, on 18 July 2017 - 09:47 PM, said:

because currently it is very unbalanced

Just not in the way you think.

[Khobai]

Quote

C PPC does 15 damage, not 10.

No it does 10 damage and if you hit a torso location it does 2.5 damage to two seperate adjacent locations.

But if you hit an arm, leg, or head then it only does 2.5 damage to one adjacent location and 2.5 of that damage simply vanishes into thin air.

Splash damage is quite bad. At best it is worth maybe 1/3rd of normal damage.

Right now the ISERPPC is arguably better than the CERPPC. Because the velocity difference is staggering. Especially since it stacks with IS PPC quirks.

Clan DHS are better so the heat difference is a moot point. The CERPPC firing faster is also a moot point because its firing rate is limited by its heat not its cooldown.

But that velocity difference is just so tremendous that its hard to say the CERPPC is better anymore.

Edited by Khobai, 18 July 2017 - 10:23 PM.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Thaidron, on 18 July 2017 - 09:47 PM, said:

an example of this is C PPC 14.5 heat / 10 dmg, I.S HPPC, 14.5 heat / 15 damage, what's the advantage?

You should look at the weapons as a whole, rather than this very narrow selection of stats.

[Weeny Machine]

Thaidron, on 18 July 2017 - 09:47 PM, said:

Recently, I have seen many advantages in the inner sphere, against the clan, an example of this is C PPC 14.5 heat / 10 dmg, I.S HPPC, 14.5 heat / 15 damage, what's the advantage? I think the ppc should be less heat against heavy ppc should be 11 or 12 heat, because currently it is very unbalanced

Clan has clearly the advantage their CERPPC does 10dmg and 5 splash vs an IS LRM does only 1 per missile with no splash damage...wait...what?

Edited by Bush Hopper, 18 July 2017 - 10:15 PM.

[Lucian Nostra]

Greyboots, on 18 July 2017 - 10:09 PM, said:

C PPC does 15 damage, not 10. 10 pinpoint with 5 to adjacent components (same as HPPC and the cooldown for both is the same as well).

HPPC also has a minimum range of 90 and optimal range of 540 Vs clan no minimum range with an optimal range of 810.

HPPC weighs 10 tons and takes 4 critical slots while Clan ER PPC takes 2 slots and weighs 6.

HPPC has a 1200 velocity, Clan ERPPC has a 1500 velocity.


Just not in the way you think.

uhm no, HPPC is 15 pinpoint damage, it doesn't splash 5 damage that IS fanboys love to over glorify as some amazing advantage.

What the HPPC does is weigh a fukton for that dmg overall it's been worth it in my eyes.

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 18 July 2017 - 10:17 PM.

[Luminis]

They're so different at this point, they're hard to compare.

One thing I'd like to point out about the heat, though: Let's not Forget how much easier it is to cram a load of DHS into a Clan 'Mech compared to a IS one.

[Monkey Lover]

Lucian Nostra, on 18 July 2017 - 10:16 PM, said:

uhm no, HPPC is 15 pinpoint damage, it doesn't splash 5 damage that IS fanboys love to over glorify as some amazing advantage.

What the HPPC does is weigh a fukton for that dmg overall it's been worth it in my eyes.

Splash isn't an advantage but its basically free. its 1more heat then Is erppc with 10 damage and no splash.Take the 1ton less weight get a dhs, Free splash damage.

heavyppc doesnt even compare to clan erppc.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 18 July 2017 - 10:25 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Splash isn't an advantage but its basically free. its 1more heat then Is erppc with 10 damage and no splash.Take the 1ton less weight get a dhs, Free splash damage.

Its not free. If it was free the CERPPC wouldnt be 14.5 heat and significantly slower velocity. 1 ton doesnt buy me faster velocity.

you conveniently left out the biggest advantage of the ISERPPC

1900m/s velocity vs 1500m/s

and that 1900m/s only gets faster with IS PPC quirks (like 2300m/s-2500m/s on some IS mechs)

Its pretty hard to argue the CERPPC is better when the ISERPPC has 50%-60% faster travel time.

Edited by Khobai, 18 July 2017 - 10:37 PM.

[Dr Hobo]

Khobai, on 18 July 2017 - 10:27 PM, said:

Its not free. If it was free the CERPPC wouldnt be 14.5 heat and slower velocity.



except you conveniently left out the biggest advantage of the ISERPPC

1900m/s velocity vs 1500m/s

and that 1900m/s only gets faster with IS PPC quirks (like 2300m/s-2500m/s on some IS mechs)

Its pretty hard to argue the CERPPC is better when the ISERPPC has 50%-60% faster travel time.

And you're only looking at velocity.

While the CERPPC v the ERPPC has some differences yes.

But the ERPPC will overheat it's mech faster,and the CERPPC will last longer(especially if armor is removed from that location due to taking less crits) and you can get more DHS in a Clam v IS mech.

The velocity/ROF is barely considered advantages. Plus you're not looking at omnipod quirks that can buff CERPPCS too and skills.

So yeah,you're looking at the forest and running straight into a tree.

[Monkey Lover]

Khobai, on 18 July 2017 - 10:27 PM, said:

Its not free. If it was free the CERPPC wouldnt be 14.5 heat and slower velocity.



except you conveniently left out the biggest advantage of the ISERPPC

1900m/s velocity vs 1500m/s

and that 1900m/s only gets faster with IS PPC quirks (like 2300m/s-2500m/s on some IS mechs)

Its pretty hard to argue the CERPPC is better when the ISERPPC has almost 50%-60% faster travel time.

lol Clans have quirks too buddy..Summoner is loaded with them but over all any mech with quirk is because they're a junk mech. It has nothing to do with weapons balance.

Its a trade, I dont see why you're crying about this every day.

Clan erppc, 1 less ton,1 less slot. 5 splash dmg
IS er pcc. 280ms faster speed. 1 less heat.

This really that big of a deal for you ? Looks balanced to me, I haven't seen a IS erppc all day lol. I personally only use the clan er ppc because i can load my mech full of 2slot dhs and use the better target computer for higher speeds.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 18 July 2017 - 10:44 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

I haven't seen an abundance of Heavy PPCs dominating the game today, but we'll see in the long run.

But yeah, a weapon with twice the slots and 4 extra tons better have some serious advantage. This shouldn't be a surprise.

[Khobai]

Quote

lol Clans have quirks too buddy..Summoner is loaded with them but over all any mech with quirk is because they're a junk mech. It has nothing to do with weapons balance.

Weapon quirks that buff weapons absolutely has everything to do with weapon balance.

And clan mechs dont get weapon quirks on their good mechs. While IS do get weapon quirks on good mechs.

Quote

Clan erppc, 1 less ton,1 less slot. 5 splash dmg
IS er pcc. 280ms faster speed. 1 less heat.

its not 280m/s faster speed

its 400m/s faster speed plus another 30% from quirks

so its like 800m/s-1000m/s faster speed

it is not some paltry amount. it is a tremendous difference. it makes ERPPCs almost instantaneous hit weapons.

Edited by Khobai, 18 July 2017 - 10:54 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 18 July 2017 - 10:51 PM, said:

Weapon quirks that buff weapons absolutely has to do with weapon balance.

And clan mechs dont get weapon quirks on their good mechs. While IS do get weapon quirks on good mechs.



its not 280ms faster speed

its 400ms faster speed plus another 30% from quirks

so its like 800m/s-1000m/s faster speed

When we see IS ER PPCs dominating the META we can talk about addressing it.

[Khobai]

Quote

When we see IS ER PPCs dominating the META we can talk about addressing it.

why does a weapon have to dominate the meta before you address such an obvious imbalance?

its not even like a small advantage that could be overlooked. its a blatantly massive advantage. lmao.

at the very least just buff the CERPPC velocity and then were all evened up.

and I still think all PPCs/ERPPCS/CERPPCs/SNPPCS need to be ghost heat limited at 3 instead of 2 so they have the same 30 PPFLD damage ghost heat limit as HPPCs. The HPPC is just a little too good compared to other PPCs without that change.

Edited by Khobai, 18 July 2017 - 11:08 PM.

[Lily from animove]

Dr Hobo, on 18 July 2017 - 09:59 PM, said:

You're comparing two very different PPCs.

Compare the ERPPC vs the CERPPC then come back.

such nonsense, you compare whatever is available, not just what is namely similar. You take whats efficient and works, not whats just there for the sake of beeing there.

Khobai, on 18 July 2017 - 10:55 PM, said:

why does a weapon have to dominate the meta before you address such an obvious imbalance?

because fixing a happening problem sounds so much cooler than trying to fix a not so obvious problem.

Edited by Lily from animove, 18 July 2017 - 10:59 PM.