35 replies to this topic

[Bud Crue]

Think about this for a moment:

You are one of the few MW/BT fans who have not yet tried this game, or even a casual gamer who comes across MWO and decides to give it a try.
You know nothing of the games mechanics, etc.
You make an account and log on for the first time, today.
YOU, would have no clue as just WTF is going on in this mess.

Busted animations, goofy game modes, a plethora of weapons that all look alike but sound different and have very different values, seemingly countless mechs from which to choose, etc. and not one word of ingame explanation for any of it. No real descriptions, no substantive explanations, no way to weigh the cost/benefit of any decision you might make in selecting a mech or building it out.

So you come here, or reddit, or wherever looking for some guidance, but it is all a clusterf*** of complaints and contradictions and only the most basic of commentary from the devs to go along with various patch notes -assuming you find them and get through them.

So everyone, I beseech you: think about the current state of the game and just how utterly confusing it must be for the noobs, and be a little bit more patient and a little bit more understanding with them. Help them. Population is low as it is and the current confusion isn't helping; especially with no in game guidance. Help those in need of understanding without being a **** about it.

And PGI? Would you please get your s*** together and put a tech guide out that explains all of the new stuff (hell, the old stuff too) in the context of THIS game and that is available IN THIS GAME (I've given up expecting basic mech descriptions, but directing new players to Sarna or even the patch notes for an understanding of the new weapons, light ferro, or whatever just doesn't cut it). You need to do this immediately, for your own sake, and that of my sanity as well. Please.

[Yellonet]

Well there is the tutorial, after that they will know everything they could possibly need to know. Right?

Edit: also, noobs are only there for vets to slaughter, and then say GG to after that 12-1 win. You know this.

Edited by Yellonet, 19 July 2017 - 04:30 AM.

[SPencil]

Yellonet, on 19 July 2017 - 04:29 AM, said:

also, noobs are only there for vets to slaughter, and then say GG to after that 12-1 win. You know this.

To be fair I GG after every match, 12-0 one way or the other. Even in a match where we shard our drawers, it's a good game anyways: a good game to learn from A little optimism goes a long way, but anyway...

Best thing a vet can do for the noobs, themselves, and the team, is to either say something helpful and positive or be quiet; making someone feel bad helps no one, and stroking one's ego has no bearing on how well the team does. Take a second to remember that everyone was new once, and remember that everyone goofs up occasionally. I'm not saying everyone should be the relentlessly optimistic twit I am, just don't be causing extra grief

The noobs got enough grief to deal with from LRMs, don't add to it by screaming at them while they figure it out Hell, if you want to speed the process up point them to the nearest rock; that's much more helpful than any insult could be.

[Wyald Katt]

I don't GG, because I feel it's lost a lot of it's meaning by overuse. When I'm on the losing end, I'll make a comment like "nice flank/push" as I see it. I type it, I truly mean it.

I tend to restrict most of my post game chatter to voice, and my own team. It's not nearly as positive as it should be. There are only so many ways to say "we can't sit here all game and expect to win". Because PugLand, whichever team screws up the courage to punch push the other one in the face usually wins. Or screws up first loses. One way or the other, there will be screwing.

I need to be a better cat.

Edit: Bud's right. The learning curve is steep. On the other hand, ha ha, we shouldn't be seeing pilots as pure as the driven snow in T1, right?

I would like to give people the benefit of the doubt and say most of them want to get better. Screaming at someone that they did something wrong won't help. It's easier to improve if someone who knows will TELL you what you did wrong, or maybe what you could work on that's right.

"YOU SUCK" will not improve anything. Tell me what I did wrong, so I can get better! At the very least, that's one mistake I'll know to avoid next time.

Edited by Wyald Katt, 19 July 2017 - 05:10 AM.

[Asym]

Well, at least someone else recognized there is a major problem with MWO's SOP: "All for one; and, more for me" atitude.

I wrote about the same thing 3 weeks ago because I am still the < six month MWO player.

Civil War is what turning out to be what I kinda of suspected: a de-eveloution of the game into a 2D brawling only, relevancy micro-sales model..."

So, the good news for Noobs is that all they need to buy is a 100 ton mobile fort and walk in a straight line destroying everything that gets in the 1o degree frontal arc of the mech..... Why 10 degrees instead of the normal 60 degree frontal arc? Because brawling doesn't require it.......

Pretty soon, the "door" all of you who refer to you and use the "don't let the door hit you in the ***" mantra everytime someone expresses a real and growing concern, well, that "door" is just about now and here.....

When I am asked by the students I interact with at a major University daily what I think about MWO, I tell them the truth about what the OP has said above. Almost all of them, even the ones who watch a game or two, move on to Space sims or games like LoL........ Sorry guys, "you reap what you sow...."

It breaks my heart.

[Oldbob10025]

I agree with what your saying as its a cluster for a new player to jump into the game and go WTF is happening if he or she has no idea what battletech is let alone all the changes in weapons/mechs/ and god knows what in game mechanics.

Its up to us as the "Vets" to help show them if only to say "Hey try this out it might help your game" to show your the better person and not some ****** that goes around saying "Noob" as that will decrease the player base and all your left with is a bunch of ******* screaming "NOOB" towards each other for bad games.

Takes little effort to gain a friend in game and also to help those new to the game to become great mechwarriors and for them to enjoy the game like you do.

Dam this game is confusing even for me that has to explain things and yes I get some things wrong on youtube and what not as its so vast. PGI I dont think has the time or resources to make a guide on how to play let alone the graphics and rely s on us the youtubers and Vets to show the way..\\

[Wyald Katt]

I can't keep up with the herd consensus. I thought Brawl was dead, or was that SO last week?

Oldbob10025, on 19 July 2017 - 05:13 AM, said:

PGI I dont think has the time or resources to make a guide on how to play let alone the graphics and rely s on us the youtubers and Vets to show the way..\\

They can assign the time and resources; assuming they have the necessary skills, and deem it a priority. New people are probably better off relying on youtube and the kind graces of the Vets.

Also, I learned a LOT from spectating people on my team after my mech got killed. I highly recommend it. Watch what everyone you can see if doing, not just the guy you're riding with. It helps.

Edited by Wyald Katt, 19 July 2017 - 05:18 AM.

[Bud Crue]

This isn't about GG after a match, it isn't about "don't let the door hit you in the a$$" because someone is pissed at PGI or the state of the game.

It is about the state of confusion, that at least I am seeing recently with newer players not understanding how incursion works, the limitations of LRMS, the minimum range on ISPPCs, the nature of decreasing damage beyond optimal range, etc; and which I expect to be compounded exponentially with this latest mess of a patch and new content.

These forums, reddit and others make clear that even the most veteran of players are experimenting and likely will be for some time. Veterans have a background knowledge of the game to approach that experimentation with some expectation of likely results. New players are wholly ignorant. They have no idea what weapons do what and why for example.

All I am asking is that if player asks a question or even does something questionable in a match, instead of the usually sarcastic comment or "git gud" take a movement and try (no matter how belligerent the player may be) to answer the question or explain in a calm manner why that questionable choice could be improved upon. Perhaps even link them something in TS or a cite in allchat.
I don't expect many to be successful at this, nor expect many new players to actually listen. But the game right now is a confusing mess and anything that can be done to aid in keeping the limited population we have (or god forbid grow it despite PGI's efforts to the contrary) I think is worth a little effort.

[Dandred]

I got a lot of that starting out, yelling and screaming about what NOT to do. So much so many games I spat back so what SHOULD I do, with no answer. Because they didn't know.

When you start out, your "experienced" team mates aren't that great either. Usually the ones with the most vitriol are just mad because they think they are better than they are, and the team failed them. So you end up with a blind leading the blind.

You then have to relearn the game again at each stage, and possibly again if you get serious about CW.

It's a shame we don't have some volunteer trainers to handle "live fire" exercises for those who have not finished their cadet bonuses.

[Bud Crue]

Dandred, on 19 July 2017 - 05:29 AM, said:

It's a shame we don't have some volunteer trainers to handle &quot;live fire&quot; exercises for those who have not finished their cadet bonuses.

We do. They are on any TS channel (and discord too), alas, just in game...not so much quite often it seems.

Edited by Bud Crue, 19 July 2017 - 05:31 AM.

[Dandred]

Bud Crue, on 19 July 2017 - 05:25 AM, said:

All I am asking is that if player asks a question or even does something questionable in a match, instead of the usually sarcastic comment or "git gud" take a movement and try (no matter how belligerent the player may be) to answer the question or explain in a calm manner why that questionable choice could be improved upon. Perhaps even link them something in TS or a cite in allchat.

Problem is twofold here though. If someone does ask a question, and most of the time they don't, because they are so confused they aren't even sure which key works the chat or mic (assuming they don't have mic fright.)

Any conversation at the end of the game has to be quick and incomplete because newbies rarely have matching chat software and the session closes in 30 seconds.

Best bet is try to explain the friend process and friend them quickly at the end.

Edited by Dandred, 19 July 2017 - 05:36 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Dandred, on 19 July 2017 - 05:34 AM, said:

Problem is twofold here though. If someone does ask a question, and most of the time they don't, because they are so confused they aren't even sure which key works the chat or mic (assuming they don't have mic fright.)

Any conversation at the end of the game has to be quick and incomplete because newbies rarely have matching chat software and the session closes in 30 seconds.

Yup.

[Haipyng]

Bud makes a good point. Better sports or helpful players would go a long way to helping retain players. I have brought 8 people to the game and in the end none have stayed because the Group Queue is so highly competitive and impossible to truly balance combined with the salty vitriol that gets spouted in some games. It just isn't fun.

Agree about GG overuse. 12-6 might be a good game. In a 12-0 Stomp, GG sounds super condescending to the losing side who know it wasn't a "good game".

[GunnerPanda]

With YouTube being such an excellent resourse, I don't see how any one can complain that they don't know what's going on in a game. Sure, I started this game with a friend, and he taught me a few basics, bit 90% of the stuff I know I learned from YouTube videos and the wiki. Then I can take what I learned and fool around on smurfy to get an idea how things might work.

Should experienced players help new players? Of course, but those players aren't here to hold very noobs hand and show them how to play. People have to act on their own initiative and go out there and use the vast resources that are out there and learn on their own time. There are way more resources and way more information for this game out there than most other games I've played, so new players have no excuse for not having a general idea of what they need to know to start being successful. If they don't have that general idea, they either heard about the game a few minutes ago or they're too lazy to learn for themselves.

[GrimRiver]

I feel that twitch streamer and youtubers help alot of new players into what builds work and how to use it.

I mean it helped me when I first started 2-3 months after MWO came out of beta and my first mech was the Hunchback which helped me learn how to twist.

Too many new players these days are too impatient, don't ask questions, quick to judge at face value and just want to get into the game expecting a Titanfall like experience only to be disappointed and then drop the game for something more modern and easy to understand.

[Wyald Katt]

GunnerPanda, on 19 July 2017 - 06:11 AM, said:

With YouTube being such an excellent resourse, I don't see how any one can complain that they don't know what's going on in a game.

Watching and learning is one thing. Taking the lessons and putting them into practice is a different beast. Reowr. That and when someone is starting, they don't even know what they're supposed to be looking for to learn.

MWO, we like throwing people off the dropship into the deep end of things. They should be happy this takes place at a relatively low altitude. Not as bad as the driving stick scene in Dogma, but close.

Edited by Wyald Katt, 19 July 2017 - 06:33 AM.

[Bud Crue]

GrimRiver, on 19 July 2017 - 06:20 AM, said:

I feel that twitch streamer and youtubers help alot of new players into what builds work and how to use it.

I mean it helped me when I first started 2-3 months after MWO came out of beta and my first mech was the Hunchback which helped me learn how to twist.

Too many new players these days are too impatient, don't ask questions, quick to judge at face value and just want to get into the game expecting a Titanfall like experience only to be disappointed and then drop the game for something more modern and easy to understand.

Yes, YouTube, twitch, etc. all sorts of stuff can help. But as I indicated with the OP, right now, today, and for at least the next week or two, this game will be in a state of total flux. Look around, pick a weapon or any example of new tech and I will find you at least two totally contradictory "resources" and every shade of opinion in between, here, on reddit, YouTube etc. Example: The b33f posted a video showing how seemingly easy and great stealth armor could be, other...other top players...have posted that it is garbage and useless. What is a new player wading through all that legitimate opinion to think?...well, they probably think "WTF is stealth armor?" Let alone if it is good, bad or something in between.

You, the new player, are expected to wade through this and know what's what. That is not possible and won't be for sometime with the new tech. It's the biggest change to the game since clans and there is no substantive and consistent guidance to its use, application, benefits and drawbacks anywhere including and especially within the game that it exists within. So if folks have a question, don't be ****, and give your help and assistance to the best of your ability as permitted by the circumstance, that's all I am asking or suggesting.

[Gasboy]

Haipyng, on 19 July 2017 - 05:56 AM, said:

Agree about GG overuse. 12-6 might be a good game. In a 12-0 Stomp, GG sounds super condescending to the losing side who know it wasn't a &quot;good game&quot;.

Do you also agree with 'hello' overuse? I mean, I hear it every day, all the time. Like it's a greeting or something. Oh wait...

Saying GG after a match is just good sportsmanship. Do you think that two hockey teams don't shake hands afterwards if it was a blowout 10-0 game? Like, you suck so bad we ain't shaking your hand?

Even in bad games, I am sure most people went into it wanting to win, and tried to do so.

[C E Dwyer]

Bud Crue, on 19 July 2017 - 04:21 AM, said:

Stuff about N.P.E which you really should read through

I do Agree Bud, it could possibly be better, but it does currently stand head and shoulders over every other PvP game I play.

Conan Exiles is currently the worse btw, but it's not a full launch yet.

There is enough provided to learn what to do, if you chose to use what's there.

P.G.I have provided enough if it's used. when it's not, no matter how complex or forgiving a system, is going to make a pilot good.

They have a dude in an atlas telling each newbie what button does what, there are exorcise's against A.I's which teach you to lead, others that zombie rush you, and fire on you, not hard, for use, but a proper test for a complete newb.

Others that teach you the importance of destroying open locations.

Running the gauntlet is a very good at teaching people to roll damage.

Training ground to learn to fire and aim while moving fast against stationary targets, and also learn the best places to be on each map, how each maps different heat effects your mech if you spend the time there

None of these things however are any good if people don't use them, that more than amything is the real issue here, it's not a fast game unless your a light pilot, it's not even the hardest PvP to play, if you learn the basic's which you can do against A.I's most don't shoot back either.

As an example, if I click the training button in War of Warships I get a video to watch.. in world of tanks I get a 15 minute programmed track to follow, Armoured Warfare's was better, but not by much. Warthunders, fly through hoops etc etc..


P.G.I's is simply one of the most expansive and largest N.P.E's there is, but people need to use it.

There is in my view only two things they could do, to make things better.

Number one.
Have a voiced cockpit help maybe Colonel sweetyballs Atlas jock, himself telling a new pilot fire less weapons at certain temperatures, which would be far better than having some irate try hard yelling stop alphaing and get guud Scrub..but I think that would get turned off inside the first hour of play.

Number two.

Have a hard cap on T5 players only fighting T4 no higher, they wait until there is enough around, and there is a counter estimating time it takes to form a match.

P.G.I claim that currently T5's only fight tops T3 that's still a tier to high, and we all know that's balls as well. There have been games where the gates have opened so wide they've been thrown in with T1's at times.

That really is the only practical way to make it better for them, a hard cap on T4, but you need a healthy population for that.

Edited by Cathy, 19 July 2017 - 06:44 AM.

[Asym]

I still think we're missing the point with new players.

Take for example a young man who was watching a group of student's playing MWO. He asked "why are there only 7 maps?" He played EliteDangerous and have an endless universe. A WoW player thought MWO ws "soooo coool" because the pace is so much faster than WoW..... Did he take the plunge? No. Too complicated in real time and the attitude in-game isn't friendly at all...

I watched my brother play WoW and I think watching grass grow is more exciting !

So, how do we change in "first in" experience? I would suggest, volunteer Tier 1/2 instructors after the Academy. A few players that will mentor those who want to see "more..."

Just a thought that wouldn't cost PGI a fortune and there are players who have the time and experience to do this.

Your thoughts?