10 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

as all missiles have the same Health, AMS resistance is based on Velocity,
(Chris Lowrey, MWO Balance Designer, as per Twitter)

with this in mind, i ran the Numbers to find each missiles AMS Resistance,
(Below im comparing Missile Amounts per Tonnage(3Tons)
-
MRMs (325Velocity & 10Missiles) 3250 resistance(are the best vs AMS)
SRMs (400Velocity & 6-8Missiles) 2800ish resistance(following MRMs resistance)
LRMs (160Velocity & 5-10Missiles) 1200ish resistance(are Tied with SSRMs)
SSRMs (250Velocity & 4-6Missiles) 1250ish resistance(are Tied with LRMs)
ATMs (200Velocity & 6Missiles) 1200 resistance(Tied with Above)

i think SSRMs LRMS & ATMs should have their Velocity increased to Aid their Viability,


(what i would Change)
-
(Non Lockon weapons so 3000ish Resistance is the goal)
MRMs (300(-25)Velocity & 10Missiles) 3000 AMS Resistance(reduce Spread Abit)
SRMs (400Velocity & 6-8Missiles) 2800ish AMS Resistance(Perfact as is),
-
(Lockon weapons so 2000ish Resistance is the goal)
LRMs (260(+80)Velocity & 5-10Missiles) 1950ish AMS Resistance,
SSRMs (320(+70)Velocity & 4-6Missiles) 1920ish AMS Resistance,
ATMs (300(+100)Velocity & 6Missiles) 1800 AMS Resistance,

with this Missiles would have matching AMS resistance, Per Type(NonLockon / Lockon)


from here Missiles could then be better balanced to AMS Systems Globally,
as from here an increase or decrease in AMS efficiency will impact all missiles the same,

and Balancing Missiles, can also be done with Spread & Cooldown,
without changing how AMS Systems effect these weapons,

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 20 July 2017 - 06:39 AM.

[Bigbacon]

Andi Nagasia, on 20 July 2017 - 06:38 AM, said:

as all missiles have the same Health, AMS resistance is based on Velocity,
(Chris Lowrey, MWO Balance Designer, as per Twitter)

with this in mind, i ran the Numbers to find each missiles AMS Resistance,
(Below im comparing Missile Amounts per Tonnage(3Tons)
-
MRMs (325Velocity & 10Missiles) 3250 resistance(are the best vs AMS)
SRMs (400Velocity & 6-8Missiles) 2800ish resistance(following MRMs resistance)
LRMs (160Velocity & 5-10Missiles) 1200ish resistance(are Tied with SSRMs)
SSRMs (250Velocity & 4-6Missiles) 1250ish resistance(are Tied with LRMs)
ATMs (200Velocity & 6Missiles) 1200 resistance(Tied with Above)

i think SSRMs LRMS & ATMs should have their Velocity increased to Aid their Viability,


(what i would Change)
-
(Non Lockon weapons so 3000ish Resistance is the goal)
MRMs (300(-25)Velocity & 10Missiles) 3000 AMS Resistance(reduce Spread Abit)
SRMs (400Velocity & 6-8Missiles) 2800ish AMS Resistance(Perfact as is),
-
(Lockon weapons so 2000ish Resistance is the goal)
LRMs (260(+80)Velocity & 5-10Missiles) 1950ish AMS Resistance,
SSRMs (320(+70)Velocity & 4-6Missiles) 1920ish AMS Resistance,
ATMs (300(+100)Velocity & 6Missiles) 1800 AMS Resistance,

with this Missiles would have matching AMS resistance, Per Type(NonLockon / Lockon)


from here Missiles could then be better balanced to AMS Systems Globally,
as from here an increase or decrease in AMS efficiency will impact all missiles the same,

and Balancing Missiles, can also be done with Spread & Cooldown,
without changing how AMS Systems effect these weapons,

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks,

Skill tree would be their answer.

[El Bandito]

Andi Nagasia, on 20 July 2017 - 06:38 AM, said:

(what i would Change)
-
(Non Lockon weapons so 3000ish Resistance is the goal)
MRMs (300(-25)Velocity & 10Missiles) 3000 AMS Resistance(reduce Spread Abit)
SRMs (400Velocity & 6-8Missiles) 2800ish AMS Resistance(Perfact as is),
-
(Lockon weapons so 2000ish Resistance is the goal)
LRMs (260(+80)Velocity & 5-10Missiles) 1950ish AMS Resistance,
SSRMs (320(+70)Velocity & 4-6Missiles) 1920ish AMS Resistance,
ATMs (300(+100)Velocity & 6Missiles) 1800 AMS Resistance,

Hmmm... isn't the function of MRMs is to spam all the missiles in order to overcome AMS resistance at the cost of accuracy? Which means they are ok at where they are. I do agree that guided missiles definitely need velocity boost, even if it is around additional 30-50 m/s.

Edited by El Bandito, 20 July 2017 - 07:01 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

El Bandito, on 20 July 2017 - 07:01 AM, said:

Hmmm... isn't the function of MRMs is to spam all the missiles in order to overcome AMS resistance at the cost of accuracy? Which means they are ok at where they are. I do agree that guided missiles definitely need velocity boost, even if it is around additional 30-50 m/s.

well i reduced the Velocity from 325(what we have now) to 300(what was in PTS)
i dont think they need to fly faster to make them better, yes it helps with accuracy, but also throws off AMS balance,
i think MRMs need less spread to make them better at their optimal range, this way it doesnt throw off AMS balance,

the idea is that as all Missiles have the same health, they should all almost have the AMS Resistance,
this was if AMS is ever Buffed or Nerfed it will affect all missiles types the same, and not hurt/help 1 more than another,

[El Bandito]

Andi Nagasia, on 20 July 2017 - 07:06 AM, said:

the idea is that as all Missiles have the same health, they should all almost have the AMS Resistance,
this was if AMS is ever Buffed or Nerfed it will affect all missiles types the same, and not hurt/help 1 more than another,

I see that. I am just not sure if normalizing all of them is the best way. Some can be balanced through their spread, as in the case of MRMs.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

This is an issue that is emerging since the June patch (buffing ams, which I think got toned down a tad this patch). I think you either have to adjust the health of missle types or do as you suggest an adjust missle velocity. I kinda prefer velocity. As is ATM's are way too easy to take down with ams..,,the lower tube count comibined with the velocity and the total inability to do damage at point-blank range makes it ineffective against ams. Higher velocity on the ATM's would also make them more viable at extreme ranges vs. lrms. The trade off would be....you have a better chance to hit a target (vs. lrms), but it is very ammo inefficient to only do 1 damage. In testing the ATM's it really isn't worth firing them when you can maybe do 1 damage as is. On most builds you just can't boat enough ammo to make firing at those ranges make sense.

Streaks probably need to go up some, maybe 10-30
Not sure lrms's need adjustment as high Tube count makes up for lower velocity somewhat.
Mrms don't seem massively effected by even massed ams. Due to high tube count and high velocity
Srms are effected somewhat at 200 meters, but as it is often a point-blank brawling weapon I would leave it where it is.

[Spheroid]

Balancing with velocity is a very stupid approach. If toughness depends on speed you run the risk of ruining any weapons that rely on velocity to make long distance shots like NARC.

I can only assume this approach was dictated by some baked in limitation of the Crytek engine.

[Magnus Santini]

Andi Nagasia, on 20 July 2017 - 06:38 AM, said:

as all missiles have the same Health, AMS resistance is based on Velocity,
(Chris Lowrey, MWO Balance Designer, as per Twitter)

I think you need to take a hard look at the numbers: AMS rate of fire (which is I believe the same as MG rate of fire, look it up) and missile hit points. Got your pencils and calculators ready? Just kidding, PGI has never told us what any of those numbers are.

[Brain Cancer]

Velocity is a tricky creature, because many missile systems are very strongly tied to velocity as accuracy.

A 200 velocity ATM is more likely to reach a locked target than a 160 velocity LRM, for example. While velocity also improves AMS resistance, tweaking it too much will make missiles superaccurate, as well.

[Andi Nagasia]

Spheroid, on 20 July 2017 - 07:51 AM, said:

Balancing with velocity is a very stupid approach. If toughness depends on speed you run the risk of ruining any weapons that rely on velocity to make long distance shots like NARC.

I can only assume this approach was dictated by some baked in limitation of the Crytek engine.\

it is very odd, but if all missiles have the same health perhaps it is a CryEngine Problem, or an Old Code Problem,
personally i would like to use both Missiles health first then Missiles Velocity to balance them,
but if we dont have Missile health to work with i guess Velocity alone will have to do,

Magnus Santini, on 20 July 2017 - 11:01 AM, said:

I think you need to take a hard look at the numbers: AMS rate of fire (which is I believe the same as MG rate of fire, look it up) and missile hit points. Got your pencils and calculators ready? Just kidding, PGI has never told us what any of those numbers are.

i am looking at the Numbers, i also have Sources,
-
Missiles all having the same Health,

Twitter said:

Chris Lowrey‏ @Chris_C_Lowrey Jul 14
Replying to @Wintersdark
All missile health currently equal. Nothing done to ATM's but note that AMS Overload got a reduction. We'll see where that takes us first.

Pariah Devalis‏ @PariahDevalis
Replying to @Chris_C_Lowrey @Wintersdark
But I'm with @Wintersdark here. SRM have more HP than LRM, or have for a while now. Surprised ATM HP not splitting the difference b/w the 2

Chris Lowrey‏ @Chris_C_Lowrey
Replying to @PariahDevalis @Wintersdark
Looked into myself during PTS. They are the same. The velocity is the main reason it appears like they have double the HP. SRM's having...

Chris Lowrey‏ @Chris_C_Lowrey Jul 15
...Double the velocity means they pass through AMS's effective range much faster, giving AMS less time to shoot down the incoming missiles.

-
AMS ROF(Rate Of Fire)

IN Game ATM Stats said:

AMS
Damage = 105/s

Laser AMS
Damage = 105/s
Heat = 3/s

they have told us, we just have to pay attention and look for the info and if its available,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 20 July 2017 - 01:59 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

.

Brain Cancer, on 20 July 2017 - 12:00 PM, said:

Velocity is a tricky creature, because many missile systems are very strongly tied to velocity as accuracy.

A 200 velocity ATM is more likely to reach a locked target than a 160 velocity LRM, for example. While velocity also improves AMS resistance, tweaking it too much will make missiles superaccurate, as well.

personally i would rather have more reliable Missiles(ones that hit more often) this is possible with Velocity increases,
then more Accurate Missiles(ones that will do more concentrated damage) this can be done with spread increases,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 20 July 2017 - 02:05 PM.