22 replies to this topic

[DavidStarr]

So Hellbringer has neither Endo nor FF. Which means that it trades usable tonnage for extra space. Which, in turn, means that I should do a loadout that's demanding of slots, not tonnage. Problem is, I can't think of any such loadout. All the larger weapons are more heavy than they are big, if that made any sense. In the end, I always run out of tonnage while there's still plenty slots left.

Even 8xER-ML + ECM + all the heatsinks I can take results in 6 slots left.

Ideas?

Edited by DavidStarr, 20 July 2017 - 12:31 PM.

[Shalune]

ECM + 7 HML + 18 DHS

Mixed results with it so far. It has tremendous potential, but the range limitation might be too much.

In general HML (and ATMs when boating 3s) are amazing build tools for the clan mechs with too much space. That said I'm still figuring out how to use HML effectively, and what they pair well with. So far leaning SRMs and UAC 10.

[MustrumRidcully]

Seems to me that Heavy Lasers might be something to experiment with. They have the same weight as regular (ER) Lasers, but more damage, more heat, and more crit slots.

So far I've only used an ECM Hellbringr with 2 C-LPL and 3 C-ERML. These weapons have simliar range brackets, similar burn times, and deal decent damage, and you can sacrifice arm armor by putting all the weapons in the relatively high mounted torso or head slots.

You won't fit any Heavy Lasers in the Head Slot, though. Maybe an ER-ML then, or an ER SL, depending on how much tonnage you have left once slotting all the HML, ECM and DHS.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 24 July 2017 - 02:47 AM.

[Doctor Dinosaur]

The 2LPL+3ERM does only work if you have the loyalty variant...or if you wait till august, when the VI Hero and the P variant make their 2 energy-in-rt appearance(awwww yisssss).
https://mwomercs.com...clan-hero-mechs

Best regards
Doc

Edited by Doctor Dinosaur, 24 July 2017 - 03:42 AM.

[Audacious Aubergine]

Thinking of upgrading my HBR-PRIME to this. Using the same build atm with ERML instead of HML, not sure how it'll pan out

EDIT: Well I took it out for a couple spins. First game (Tourmaline) I got 400 damage in the process of getting blasted to oblivion by the whole enemy team, second game (Frozen City) I got 900 before dying from an accidental team kill. Both times (I think) I dropped an arty strike as well so I'm still not actually sure how effective this thing is

Edited by Audacious Aubergine, 25 July 2017 - 04:55 AM.

[The Basilisk]

I know that the hellbringer is mostly driven with laser vomit but that is not what makes him excell.
It is the location of the torso hardpoints in combination with ECM and the fact you can ditish the arms (and their armor)

So most successfull builds on HBR (at least those that I know of: 3ERM+Gauss, 2LPLs+3ERM, QuadERLL, 2UAC5/LB5X+3ERM) will simply leave the arms empty and unarmored. --> not as much critspace as you think

The next thing that made those builds pretty goo is that you don't have to close in that much --> ECM stays effective

If you want to use those arms effectively you will have lots of situations where you have to clos in on the target, means <200m and that is pretty deadly in a HBR since he isn't exactly smal or well armored.

Also all builds that force you to close in that much (dual LB10-X + 3HMLs) or LB20X/UAC20 and secondary weapons either makes you incredibly dependant on beeing able to get behind your own lines when you reach your heat treshhold or just beeing blown to bits while beeing unable to retalitate due to heat overload or simply getting noticed and focused due to close proximity.

Well it pretty much boils down to the old builds beeing still more effective than anything with atms or HxLs

[DavidStarr]

The Basilisk, on 24 July 2017 - 03:50 AM, said:

So most successfull builds on HBR (at least those that I know of: 3ERM+Gauss, 2LPLs+3ERM, QuadERLL, 2UAC5/LB5X+3ERM) will simply leave the arms empty and unarmored. --> not as much critspace as you think

Very interesting thoughts, thank you.

I'm a dakka guy myself and rarely succeed with laser vomit. Naturally, I've tried some 2xUAC/5 and UAC/10 loadouts first, and had absolutely no fun. I wonder why, I don't understand it, but it's a fact. And then I started trying laser vomit builds, and started doing much better. Again, no idea why.
4xER-LL feels silly, it's too hot to really be universally good (it's good in some cases, of course). LPLs, ER-MLs and heavy medium lasers work well for me, on the other hand. Currently running 2xLarge Heavy Laser + 4xER-ML + ECM. I'd say the build is at least not bad.

Edited by DavidStarr, 25 July 2017 - 08:38 AM.

[J0anna]

I run 3 builds:

1) 2xLPL, 3xERML, TC1, ECM
2) 2xHLL, 3xERML, ECM
3) Gauss, 4xERML, ECM

The last is a FW build only. When Virago comes out I'm thinking 2xERLL, 4xERML, I feel the 2xHLL, 4xERML build will be too hot.

[Yumoshiri]

4x ERLL has been ace for me, better than 3x LPL. Just remember to use single shot when things are getting too hot. the advantage is that it's cover by ecm shields you from missiles and direct sight, so you can get a few shots of before retreating. the heavy LL are tempting however... i can imagine going for 2x HL, 3x erML at some point for experimentation. This however implies putting armor back on the arms to make room for heat sinks.

[eFTy]

4x ERLL work well for me too, though I mainly use it in FW when I know the map allows long range play. The 2x LPL & 2x UAC5 builds have yet to feel satisfying.

[TooDumbToQuit]

I'm using dual Heavy Lasers in the left torso. That is 36 points of pinpoint damage.

And an ER LL in its head.

P.S. On my Clan account my drop deck is 3 Hellbringers and a Shadow Cat so I've been working to get the most out of them.

At least once, I'd like to see an entire 12 man team set up like that.

Everyone has speed and ECM.

Edited by LikeUntoGod, 27 July 2017 - 06:12 AM.

[DavidStarr]

LikeUntoGod, on 27 July 2017 - 06:07 AM, said:

Everyone has speed and ECM.

I suppose ECM is a plus, but isn't EBJ better for CW?

[The Basilisk]

DavidStarr, on 27 July 2017 - 07:21 AM, said:

I suppose ECM is a plus, but isn't EBJ better for CW?

The main strength of the Ebon Jag is its poking power due to low profile and high weapons.
When you are in the group swarm this doesn't matter much...but from a tactical point of view a combination of ebon jags and HBRs in your kompanie might be a good thing due to the different weapon loadouts.

[TooDumbToQuit]

DavidStarr, on 27 July 2017 - 07:21 AM, said:

I suppose ECM is a plus, but isn't EBJ better for CW?

Honestly, I do not own an EBJ but I know they are good and they fit the weight needed. Another one is the LBK which I've become really impressed with. It is lower with IMO, better hit boxes. The LBK is even faster at 97 KPH.

Your team is only as fast as your slowest member.

And one of the advantages the Clans have over the IS is speed. (Unless someone brings a DWF etc) Think about if you are working as a team. You can choose where you fight and the IS team can stretch out too far for its own good. There are many pluses such as a faster reinforcement.

ECM rules.

My unit has had training games and one is one ECM mech helping 3-4 teammates sneaking past the other side.

I almost never worry about LRMs etc. I do not have to spend any points in the sensor area. I often have them as Zombies, they work well like that.

I can see using Jenners II's, ACHs and even Kit Foxes in special cases on the team.

I started and have run this account (LikeUntoBuddha) totally free. Since the new skill tree, this has become a lot easier but I now have 6 Hellbringers and 3 Shadow Cats. I run two decks, a cold world one, and a hot world one. I did buy a Locust bundle for $13.00 which gave me 3 mech bays after I sold them and 30 days of PT.

I also have "won" an LBK and a BLR-1G.

I'm trying to research how to play and have a couple of nice drop decks for almost no real money cost. A lot of guys I know have moved from the Clans to Mech units so they can also play IS mechs which many prefer. And they have a big investment in that account.

So either for new Clan members or older players wanting a Clan account without spending a lot of money or time.

[TooDumbToQuit]

I forgot that one huge point about Hellbringers is the "laser in the head".

It sits above your cockpit so if you can see it, you can hit it and they often cannot return fire.

And my really big thing, They have a weapon until they are destroyed. With both torsos, both arms and one leg shot off, the Hellbringer still has an ER LL to fight with.

Edited by LikeUntoGod, 27 July 2017 - 08:44 AM.

[Virlutris]

My favorite is a simple upgrade:

Add 1HLL to the 6ERML. Boat heatsinks. Add TC and/or ECM according to your preference. The HBR-F RT is now available for c-bills, so you can stick the HLL in the RT, and the ERMLs in the head and left-side mounts.

The ranges sync nicely, and you can lean on the ERMLs a little more on hot maps. The beauty is that you can add an 18-point, 4 ton laser beam to your pokes for a full 60 point alpha when you're running at about 40% heat or so, for a pure upgrade to the super cool-running ERML-poker.

This is the final form of my PUG-poking Hellbringer. It works because the way to minmax a Hellbringer is to make the most of those crits. Laserboats love heatsinks, and heatsinks love critspace, so it's a great match.

Watching the heat drop quickly even on hot maps puts a smile on my face


Edit: spelling OP

Edited by Virlutris, 27 July 2017 - 08:52 AM.

[J0anna]

LikeUntoGod, on 27 July 2017 - 08:43 AM, said:

I forgot that one huge point about Hellbringers is the "laser in the head".

It sits above your cockpit so if you can see it, you can hit it and they often cannot return fire.

And my really big thing, They have a weapon until they are destroyed. With both torsos, both arms and one leg shot off, the Hellbringer still has an ER LL to fight with.

With a clan XL engine, if you lose both side torso's you're dead....

[Cy Mitchell]

DavidStarr, on 25 July 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

I'm a dakka guy myself and rarely succeed with laser vomit. Naturally, I've tried some 2xUAC/5 and UAC/10 loadouts first, and had absolutely no fun. I wonder why, I don't understand it, but it's a fact.

eFTy, on 27 July 2017 - 05:33 AM, said:

The 2x LPL & 2x UAC5 builds have yet to feel satisfying.

The Hellbringer was my first Heavy and the HBR-Prime with 2xUAC5/3 erML was my "go to" Mech for a long time. Then along came the efforts to rein in the Kodiak KDK-3 and Night Gyr dakka boats. The UAC jam chances were increased along with the jam duration. Also cooldown does not start until after the jam duration clears. It reined in the dakka boats a bit but it killed the mixed builds that could only carry one or two UACs along with lasers. My match scores dropped at least 50 points when using the mixed ballistic/laser build and I had to move to laser vomit.

UAC mixed builds are unsatisfying and not fun because of too frequent jams and too long jam duration. I hope the just announced quirk changes for the Clan Wave 2 and 3 Mechs will address this problem for not just the HBR but also all other chassis, that can only carry one or two UACs. I am tired of my favorite chassis being a one trick pony.

[Steel Raven]

The 2X UAC5, 4X ER ML build is still one of my top performers though I use it as a support mech. The UAC 5 jams but I still have better luck than my old 2X UAC 10 Timber Wolf build that seemed to jammed all the time (my T-Wolves are all energy now)

I have also had decent success with duel ER PPC build, does far better than the older Gauss build at range and in a brawl.

[Kin3ticX]

you dont need to worry about filling the crit slots with equipment just like you dont need to fill all the hardpoints on a mech as a general rule. This is not some universal rule to follow, just a case by case thing. Its not a mech starved of hardpoints nor is it a mech starved of tonnage for lasers and heatsinks, multiple large ballistics yes.

my 2xLPL, 3xERML, tc1 build has nothing i the arms and it works still




I also have another HBR set up with 2xHLL, 2xHML, with 1 ERML in the head and it works about as good. It has a bigger alpha but also has drawbacks like longer burntime, longer cooldown, and range.

I drive the HBR not only for the ECM but also for the tightly clustered hardpoints near the cockpit and the generally good hitboxes and handling.