72 replies to this topic

[Tordin]

Vitharr, on 21 July 2017 - 07:47 AM, said:

I like HLL on the adder as you have few hardpoints. People ignore them so face time isn't an issue if you are escorting the assaults.

Hah! Exactly, however I use HLL on one of my Cougars.

[kf envy]

iv only found a heavy large lasers some what useful on my shadowcat.. I run it with a ERLL, 3MGs and emc

[Zergling]

Khobai, on 21 July 2017 - 10:45 AM, said:

heavy laser damage is set at twice the value of the IS std lasers

ISSL = 3.25 damage so CHSL = 6.5 damage
ISML = 5 damage so CHML = 10 damage
ISLL = 9 damage so CHLL = 18 damage

its literally just two IS std lasers duct taped together and shoved in one hardpoint

which means heavy laser heat should be only slightly higher than twice the value of the IS std lasers (because were getting 2 weapons in 1 hardpoint at reduced tonnage, that has to come with a heat cost, cooldown cost, and duration cost)

the longer duration is fine as it is now. they do massive damage per tick as they should. but the heat and the cooldowns are both a little too high. reduce the heat and cooldowns to what I suggested and well have something we can work with.

From a balancing perspective, tying Heavy Laser damage to IS laser damage is a bad idea, because if one weapon requires an adjustment it will force an adjustment in the other weapons that are tied to it.


As for cooldowns, I honestly don't have a problem with them being long; the game favours slower firing, higher alpha weapons, and effective rate of fire of energy weapons is limited more by their heat than their cooldown.

Note that reducing beam duration does increase rate of fire too, because lasers do not start their cooldown timer until they have finished their burn.

So if I had to choose between 0.2 second less cooldown and 0.1 second less beam duration, I'd go with the later.
Both increase maximum rate of fire, but the beam duration reduction makes a much bigger difference in weapon effectiveness.

Edited by Zergling, 21 July 2017 - 11:08 AM.

[PurplePuke]

Kiran Yagami, on 21 July 2017 - 07:39 AM, said:

Other than the obvious heat problem. Heavy lasers are extremely slot inefficient. I have a hard time fitting enough heat sinks on the mech because I run out of criticals. They seem best suited to mechs with low podspace, yet plenty of critical space. The LBK comes to mind.

I think you're spot on here.

I have a LBK with 2 HLL and 2 HML. You have to play it according to the weaponry's characteristics, but I've had a handful of good games with it.

Obviously you have to be fire disciplined, and probably use a coolshot here and there. But your alpha at close range is pretty devastating.

Tons of fun.

[Khobai]

Quote

From a balancing perspective, tying Heavy Laser damage to IS laser damage is a bad idea, because if one weapon requires an adjustment it will force an adjustment in the other weapons that are tied to it.

huh? its not perma tied. its just an initial point of reference.

if they later changed something on the ISML it doesnt mean the HML would also have to change.

Quote

As for cooldowns, I honestly don't have a problem with them being long; the game favours slower firing, higher alpha weapons, and effective rate of fire of energy weapons is limited more by their heat than their cooldown.

it only favors those kinds of weapons at long range.

heavy lasers arnt long range. and at the range where heavy lasers operate is dominated by low cooldown dps weapons like large pulses. theyre just not bringing a whole lot to the table that pulses cant do better.

Quote

So if I had to choose between 0.2 second less cooldown and 0.1 second less beam duration, I'd go with the later.

except they dont need shorter beam duration. their damage per tick is already the highest in the game. higher than large pulse lasers even. their beam durations are pretty awesome right now.

the issue isnt beam duration. its the longass cooldowns and the high heat for such short range weapons

theyre not competing with pulse lasers in the same range band as pulse lasers. pulse lasers completely outdps them and for less heat.

Edited by Khobai, 21 July 2017 - 12:01 PM.

[Skrapha]

6 heavy mediums on a cheetah, with 60 point alpha strike. hot as hell.

[White Heat]

So far I've had some good fun with 2 heavy larges on an ice ferret.

I also tried 2 hlls on an arctic cheetah and it was good.

[White Heat]

Also the Summoner, with 3 hmlas and 3 ATM-6 is something I'm playing with..

These weapons seem to complement each other nicely, and once the brawl closes to sub 300m, you're putting out 80 point strikes.

[Methanoid]

I think their best use is to help overheat yourself faster than usual..... which is already pretty damned quick.

[Khobai]

yeah the heat needs to be reduced they cook your mech as is

and they really shouldnt run as hot as they do for how short range they are

[thievingmagpi]

I've seen a bunch of HBR built around HLL. Any ideas for good builds? 4HLL or 3HLL and some ERML?

[MadRover]

It depends on what you're putting on your mech. If you are going to try brawling with them and use them as your primary, then stick with cERMLs because those deliver better overall dph. However, if you're looking for something to back up your primary, then the cHMLs are better because they will deliver more punch which will force your target to twist or lose trades. They have good uses and I think they're good once the role for them is figured out.

[Methanoid]

thievingmagpi, on 21 July 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

I've seen a bunch of HBR built around HLL. Any ideas for good builds? 4HLL or 3HLL and some ERML?

Heres my average hellbringer build b4 the patch which pretty much made all lasers run hotter than usual, i havent been insane enough yet to even try any of the new large laser tech, their all pointless imho, far far too hot even chain fired, even the regular stuffs far too hot now even with a fair few heat sinks, its like their not even there.

Edited by Methanoid, 21 July 2017 - 04:56 PM.

[Vesper11]

MadRover, on 21 July 2017 - 03:49 PM, said:

It depends on what you're putting on your mech. If you are going to try brawling with them and use them as your primary, then stick with cERMLs because those deliver better overall dph.

Actually no, cERMLs (cERSLs too) got "buffed" recently, now you can enjoy the heat and cooldown.

[Methanoid]

Vesper11, on 21 July 2017 - 06:29 PM, said:

Actually no, cERMLs (cERSLs too) got "buffed" recently, now you can enjoy the heat and cooldown.

yeah my kitfox purifier with 4x cerml's now spends 60% of a match overheated and im not even using lams, in fact most of my clan mechs now spend an eternity in overheat land, its quite tiresome as i dont like projectile setups.

[s0da72]

I put 4 Heavy lasers on a stormcrow today. I had a lot of fun with it.

[SPNKRGrenth]

Khobai, on 21 July 2017 - 10:32 AM, said:

but lack energy hardpoints and lack of tonnage arnt really an issue on most clan mechs. so most clan mechs just opt to use the LPL instead.

very few mechs meet all the criteria required for heavy lasers to be useful. Because heavy laser stats are quite frankly unimpressive and need a buff.

all the heavy lasers need the following heat reduction buffs

Heavy Small Laser should be 4.25 -> 3.7 Heat
Heavy Medium Laser should be 8 -> 7.5 Heat
Heavy Large Laser should be 16 -> 15 Heat

and the cooldowns are also still way too long. They need to shave at least .25s off each cooldown.

Heavy Small Laser should be 4s -> 3.75s
Heavy Medium Laser should be 5s -> 4.75s
Heavy Large Laser should be 5.75s -> 5.5s

I think the suggested heavy small laser heat cost reduction might be slightly too generous, though admittedly without doing any math to actually compare values. But otherwise, I think there's would have the heavy lasers be in just the right spot. Sans minor fine tuning down the road depending on how they do.

[Shadowomega1]

C4NC3R, on 21 July 2017 - 07:57 AM, said:

SNV-C 6x C-HeLL - 1260 DMG so unworthy heavy lazorz.

Running 2 HLL and 4 ERLL on my SNV-C and 20 DHS, laugh maniacally as mechs ct melt while they try and use their RACs on me over 700m away.

[Clanner Scum]

Lordhammer, on 21 July 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

Out of all 3, i only find Heavy Large Laser as good addition to clan weaponry. It does things no other clan laser can do, packs a very heavy punch for managable duration, decent range and low weight. It is actually really good on mechs like Shadowcat, that lacks hardpoints but has ecm and mobility to manage Heavy Lasers weaknesses.

ATMs and heavy mediums do very well on the SCAT as well. The shadowcat definetly benefits the most from all the new clan weaponry.

[MadHornet]

I have to agree with the Adder idea. I run 1 ERLL, 4 HVY MED on my adder. FIFTY-ONE damage.

It really helps their slower fire support role by further adding to the punishment on heavier 'mechs that try to push/peek. Plus, since the heavy lasers don't weigh anything more, you can still have a significant amount of DHS.

Edited by MadHornet, 21 July 2017 - 08:00 PM.