83 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

davoodoo, on 22 July 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

Yeah sure, want to beat me with the fact that i didnt commit to any unit?? go on

But you cant in all honesty call it fun when youre being lumped 12 randoms vs 4 randoms + 8 man premade about 4 times out of 5

davoodoo, on 22 July 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

so basically old system with 1 bucket is the great idea?

well time to get your praying beads and repeat like mantra "nothing will change for you until you go loyalist"

The "great idea" is to have a real campaign and troop deployment system (i.e. a fully developed Community Warfare), not a "matchmaker" for something that is nothing more than a glorified arena-only theme park experience.

davoodoo, on 22 July 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

Also no wonder some ppl actually created solo units to play in group que as solo q given no rewards and because of that no one bothered... theres qp for that ****, half the hassle twice the fun.

I don't know about anybody else, but I myself formed my own unit to intentionally drop with the groups and not for the rewards.

Edited by Mystere, 22 July 2017 - 06:42 PM.

[jss78]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 22 July 2017 - 06:31 PM, said:

They also didn't actually TELL anyone except the group players they had done it.

Nothing in the mechlab.

Nothing on login.

If you weren't already a hardcore MWO that follows the twitter and forums, you had no clue it was up for a whole 3 days.

They designed the "split" to have terrible results so they could say it was a failure.

That's true, it was so poorly advertised and so quickly abandoned that it almost felt like they wanted it to fail.

Currently the problem is a majority of the players don't come to FW, period. They probably came at some point, had a bad experience, left and never came back.

If they REALLY wanted to try the split queues, IMO they should do something like this:

1. Split queues

2. Make a massive, month-long event. Advertise like hell. GREAT prizes -- something that'll make people take notice. Not stuff like "whatever I'll get that in next month's QP event", but better.

3. Lots of people come play in the split queues, have a good enough time (no worse than QP).

If some % of players stick around after the event ends, you could then sustain the split queues for the combined IS-vs-clans.

Short of merging QP and FW outright, I think that might work.

Edited by jss78, 22 July 2017 - 06:45 PM.

[Methanoid]

Mystere, on 22 July 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

In other words, junk the 5 year old filler -- quick play -- and build CW as it was originally meant to be: the game.

then watch the playerbase dive to oblivion.

[Valhallan]

the scoring is lower because it's divided among your mechs that did participate, thats why a 3000 dmg score is really just a 750 score in qp or 375 pts. If you are group stomping this is ez as you will likely use maybe one or 2 mechs so your 2-3000 dmg score is just going to be taken as is or divided by 2 resulting in a 1000-1500 or 500-750 pt match.

[Aiden Skye]

So many Qp softees in here

[XX Sulla XX]

Keep your nasty faction play away from my quickplay. If PGI put them together they would not make faction play better they would figure out how to ruin quickplay.

[Splatkitty]

Units, and group drops be danged. FP is a brutal grind. Add to that the likelihood of running into an organized unit that is dropping in all Linebackers, Kodiaks, Arctic Cheetahs etc.... A herd of Arctic Cheetahs cut through my team like a hot knive through butter in a matter of a minute or 2. The enemies follow up drop was all Kodiaks, then Linebackers. We never saw their 4th drop. Absolutely brutal. Kudos to the opposing team, bad karma for the game. It was NO fun.
PGI really needs to sweeten the pot in game changes if they want more people to participate in it. The idea of FP is good. the execution of the game play...not so much. As to the event, if I want a faction pattern that badly, I'd rather pay hard $$$ than suffer that grind. I can get the C-Bills from QP grinding fairly quickly with my avg match scores.
As it stands. FP? No thank you.


Regards,
Splat

Edited by Splatkitty, 23 July 2017 - 04:27 AM.

[Mystere]

Methanoid, on 22 July 2017 - 10:03 PM, said:

then watch the playerbase dive to oblivion.

That depends entirely on how well PGI improves CW.

Besides, it could be argued that the player base is already dwindling, if not actually diving.

[Methanoid]

Mystere, on 23 July 2017 - 04:39 AM, said:

That depends entirely on how well PGI improves CW.

Besides, it could be argued that the player base is already dwindling, if not actually diving.

PGI isnt doing themselves any favors by utilising a portion of the game many find unplayable, frustrating and confusing, there isnt even anything ingame that even bothers to explain or guide new players through faction play, that plus having confusing stuff like quirks, it makes what should be a simple arcade shooter far too overcomplicated, then add in their insane pricing models for pretty much anything, its no wonder the playerbase is going nowhere good.

Also this is a pretty old game by todays standards and the Cry engine used was never all that impressive here in the first place, it looks weak most times, easily confuse it for an ancient half life engine game, the whole engine could do with a facelift so it doesnt look like we are playing on bland static maps from the 1990s.

Also whos genious idea was it to have these supposed super high tech mechs overheating or close to overheating and shutting down for a large portion of the game, it sucks the fun out of the game, if this is a result of trying to appease the tabletop players/rulesets then its not hard to see why many just abandon the game, i know i cant get any friends/family to stick to this and i know a few that at least liked hawken (b4 it got abandoned, taken over then reduced to a degraded bag of rubbish) but this game puts them off.

[davoodoo]

Methanoid, on 23 July 2017 - 04:49 AM, said:

Also whos genious idea was it to have these supposed super high tech mechs overheating or close to overheating and shutting down for a large portion of the game, it sucks the fun out of the game, if this is a result of trying to appease the tabletop players/rulesets then its not hard to see why many just abandon the game, i know i cant get any friends/family to stick to this and i know a few that at least liked hawken (b4 it got abandoned, taken over then reduced to a degraded bag of rubbish) but this game puts them off.

You realise that heat management in tt is far easier than here??

for example stock awesome
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...aa147e78c7f5419
this thing here would overheat in tt after 15 salvos from ppc, here however 5th will shut it down.

Or dreaded op laservomit is infact heat neutral garbage build...

Edited by davoodoo, 23 July 2017 - 04:54 AM.

[jss78]

Methanoid, on 23 July 2017 - 04:49 AM, said:

Also whos genious idea was it to have these supposed super high tech mechs overheating or close to overheating and shutting down for a large portion of the game, it sucks the fun out of the game, if this is a result of trying to appease the tabletop players/rulesets then its not hard to see why many just abandon the game, i know i cant get any friends/family to stick to this and i know a few that at least liked hawken (b4 it got abandoned, taken over then reduced to a degraded bag of rubbish) but this game puts them off.

Heat management is one of those cornerstones that make BT/MW what it is, and distinct from other giant robot games.

It's a tough game for new players, no argument there -- it's always been one of the major shortcomings of this game. But changing core mechanics that define the franchise should be off the table.

If you find your 'mech too hot, hit the mechlab (another cornerstone) and make it run cooler.

[davoodoo]

jss78, on 23 July 2017 - 04:57 AM, said:

Heat management is one of those cornerstones that make BT/MW what it is, and distinct from other giant robot games.

It's a tough game for new players, no argument there -- it's always been one of the major shortcomings of this game. But changing core mechanics that define the franchise should be off the table.

If you find your 'mech too hot, hit the mechlab (another cornerstone) and make it run cooler.

Except it requires no coding, it requires only changes to xml to make it like tt...

first we do trudubs with 2 capacity and 0.2 dissipation.
then we multiply shs and dhs dissipation by 2.5 to accomodate 4s baseline cooldown.
then we go back to tt heat values on weapons

done as close to tt management as possible.

Edited by davoodoo, 23 July 2017 - 05:03 AM.

[Methanoid]

jss78, on 23 July 2017 - 04:57 AM, said:

Heat management is one of those cornerstones that make BT/MW what it is, and distinct from other giant robot games.

It's a tough game for new players, no argument there -- it's always been one of the major shortcomings of this game. But changing core mechanics that define the franchise should be off the table.

If you find your 'mech too hot, hit the mechlab (another cornerstone) and make it run cooler.

now when you say define, do you mean define it for the decreasing loyal fans sticking to it or the potential gamers that leave in droves, heat management may be "different" but its in no way fun or required, my first mech game i played was Battledrome, and that managed just fine with 3 power options for Engine/Weapons/Shield, you just had a set amount of power available shared between all 3 and could adjust them as required: ie lower walk speed and buff weapon damage, or increase shielding to max while slowing you and lowering your dmg. Power routing was a reasonably useful feature that wasnt irritating and was very useful as and when you needed it on your Herc's.

Does heat management here provide anything useful? not really, it just annoys people, lots of things annoy and frustrate people, and it potentially makes a customer walk, tabletop games rarely convert well to arcade games, this isnt a simulation game its an arcade shooter so sucking the fun out of it doesnt really help retain customers..

[davoodoo]

Methanoid, on 23 July 2017 - 05:09 AM, said:

Does heat management here provide anything useful? not really, it just annoys people, lots of things annoy and frustrate people, and it potentially makes a customer walk, tabletop games rarely convert well to arcade games, this isnt a simulation game its an arcade shooter so sucking the fun out of it doesnt really help retain customers..

Normally heat is damage limiting factor, because tt doesnt have silly hardpoints(neither will hbr battletech thank god) so to prevent you from filling crits with medium lasers and obliterating enemy you now have put 3 dhs for every 2 meds to not overheat.

+ idk about you but the thing i actually enjoy the most is building mechs.

Heat in battletech isnt something you need to actively manage(unless you build for that), its a system to reduce firepower to reasonable lvls.

Edited by davoodoo, 23 July 2017 - 05:16 AM.

[jss78]

Methanoid, on 23 July 2017 - 05:09 AM, said:

now when you say define, do you mean define it for the decreasing loyal fans sticking to it or the potential gamers that leave in droves, heat management may be "different" but its in no way fun or required, my first mech game i played was Battledrome, and that managed just fine with 3 power options for Engine/Weapons/Shield, you just had a set amount of power available shared between all 3 and could adjust them as required: ie lower walk speed and buff weapon damage, or increase shielding to max while slowing you and lowering your dmg. Power routing was a reasonably useful feature that wasnt irritating and was very useful as and when you needed it on your Herc's.

Does heat management here provide anything useful? not really, it just annoys people, lots of things annoy and frustrate people, and it potentially makes a customer walk, tabletop games rarely convert well to arcade games, this isnt a simulation game its an arcade shooter so sucking the fun out of it doesnt really help retain customers..

All I can say here that maybe you'll like some other game better.

Look, heat management is a part of the balancing equation. Lasers = light, no ammo, but lots of heat. Ballistics = heavy, limited ammo, + low heat. Juggling between these is one of the essential challenges in BT/MW since day 1. And yes, it's fun.

Now you're right the franchise has a population issue. It definitely needs a new, attractive entry point for new players. Hopefully Harebrained's BT game and MW5:M will achieve that.

But as far as converting the core mechanics of tabletop to video games -- it's been done for years and years in the EXTREMELY successful MW franchise. If it's suddenly too challenging to be "fun", maybe all the say about dumbing down things and falling IQ's is really true.

[Mystere]

Splatkitty, on 23 July 2017 - 04:27 AM, said:

The idea of FP is good. the execution of the game play...not so much.

That has always been the problem.

Methanoid, on 23 July 2017 - 05:09 AM, said:

Battledrome

BattleTech <> Battledrome. PGI did not choose the latter as the IP to base their game on.

[Methanoid]

davoodoo, on 23 July 2017 - 05:13 AM, said:

Normally heat is damage limiting factor, because tt doesnt have silly hardpoints(neither will hbr battletech thank god) so to prevent you from filling crits with medium lasers and obliterating enemy you now have put 3 dhs for every 2 meds to not overheat.

+ idk about you but the thing i actually enjoy the most is building mechs.

Heat in battletech isnt something you need to actively manage(unless you build for that), its a system to reduce firepower to reasonable lvls.

they coulda balanced that a different way like artificially increasing cooldowns or something, the heat system really isnt great. if it was to stop alpha'ing then er, isnt that kinda what we have now from this last patch?

[davoodoo]

Methanoid, on 23 July 2017 - 05:26 AM, said:

they coulda balanced that a different way like artificially increasing cooldowns or something, the heat system really isnt great. if it was to stop alpha'ing then er, isnt that kinda what we have now from this last patch?

Mwo is perversion of battletech heat system.

Not only
1)we have heat system from battletech
2)we also have lower cooldowns from 10s accross the board down to less than 1s on ac2 and even ppc at 4s without adjusting heat sinks for that(lower cooldowns are fine but increase dissipation to keep the flow)
3)we then also got nerfs to dhs so instead of them being double, there are one and half sinks
4)then we also have hardpoints on top of that limiting how much weapons of each type can we carry
5)then we also have ghost heat on top of that
and to salvage situation we needed to get drop on heat for quite a few weapons...

Basically mwo mech which hits around 40% efficiency on smurphy would be heat neutral in tt.

Oh and why do we have ghost heat?? because pgi insists on weapons being pinpoint accurate...

Edited by davoodoo, 23 July 2017 - 05:42 AM.

[Kill Chain]

If I were a dev I would just limit premade groups to 4 players (Lance size). Other lobby type shooters like World of Warships etc. limit the amounts of players in a group going into the same match, I don't see why PGI doesn't do the same.

[davoodoo]

Kill Chain, on 23 July 2017 - 05:57 AM, said:

If I were a dev I would just limit premade groups to 4 players (Lance size). Other lobby type shooters like World of Warships etc. limit the amounts of players in a group going into the same match, I don't see why PGI doesn't do the same.

Except that cw in wot allows for full groups, thing is they tried to make clan wars for everyone even without clan so you have silly cw which everyone who doesnt pug stomp hates.