158 replies to this topic

[WarHippy]

El Bandito, on 22 July 2017 - 11:18 AM, said:

Read the post first and then vote for it here. https://mwomercs.com...for-solo-queue/

Bear in mind that I am advocating 8v8 on Solo-Queue only. There are several persistent and annoying in game issues we can alleviate by switching back to 8v8 in Solo-Q.

1. Reducing combatant numbers per match from 24 to 16 will mean there will be more matches happening at the same time, and making it easier for MM to find someone who have similar skill level as you. Wait time will also decrease.

2. TTK will increase due to less people shooting at a single target, on average. I also remember back in 8v8 there were much less deathballing compared to 12v12, and more parts of the maps were utilized.

3. Needless to say, FPS performance should be better in a match with less people in it. Which means more players will be able to play this resource hogging MWO on their rigs--which will boost population.

4. 8v8 will also help players to better show off their personal skills and contribute more towards the match, and rely less on potatoes. Which will result in less frustration towards the pug lottery.

Note: Naturally 8v8 will have higher rewards to account for less amount of mechs destroyed. Paul might try to cheat us out of C-Bill rewards, like he did when 12v12 was introduced, but we will keep a sharp eye on it, along with our torches and pitchforks.

1)Wishful thinking at best.
2)TTK is going to be about the same. Rare is it when all 12 or even 8 are hitting one person. People are still going to drop quickly with 2 or 3 focusing on the same target just as it is now. Back when we had 8v8 we had less tech for quick killing, and the game was still new which played a big part in the map usage and lack of deathballs. Rose tinted glasses.
3)It will probably run better for some people, but it is more wishful thinking that it will have any impact on population.
4)Maybe, but I suspect that it won't be much different and I expect rolls to actually be more common.

We will be screwed on c-bills no matter how close an eye we keep on it.

[Big Bertha 00]

I'd like to try 8v8 for 2 weeks. No test server, just make it a 2 week event with 8v8. Then get feedback and vote.

[Jormunrek]

Would prefer it stayed 12v12.

[Connor Davion]

Nay

[Asym]

NAY !

I've read all of the posts and looked up several of the respondents scores.....NAY.....

It's bad enough for new players as it is with 12x12.... You good players, tier 1 & 2 shouldn't be playing with the T4 & 5's and it seems, after reading many of the responses, you 'all want 8x8 not to better MWO............ The MWO "God Kings" should be in FP and Competition play honing to be E-Sport Gods..... Not messing with QP at all.

Good grief. Imagine yourself a new player with now seven other players counting on you not screwing up. The loss of one in 12 isn't too bad. The loss of one in eight is a lot more severe and I can gar-en-tee the better players will be vocally impressing their desires on new players strenously.............

Nay. Poor vehicle for new players.

[Bigbacon]

Asym, on 25 August 2017 - 05:10 PM, said:

NAY !

I've read all of the posts and looked up several of the respondents scores.....NAY.....

It's bad enough for new players as it is with 12x12.... You good players, tier 1 & 2 shouldn't be playing with the T4 & 5's and it seems, after reading many of the responses, you 'all want 8x8 not to better MWO............ The MWO "God Kings" should be in FP and Competition play honing to be E-Sport Gods..... Not messing with QP at all.

Good grief. Imagine yourself a new player with now seven other players counting on you not screwing up. The loss of one in 12 isn't too bad. The loss of one in eight is a lot more severe and I can gar-en-tee the better players will be vocally impressing their desires on new players strenously.............

Nay. Poor vehicle for new players.

yes, and guess how the chat will light up with crying babies when some new or old player comes into battle in some stock or weird build and isn't meta tryhard death ball laser vomiting or PPFLDing....they will be real and plentiful.

the old players remember 8v8 from a long time ago. the game was SO different back then and I think that has clouded them. We need more players not less and making the game more difficult for newer players is just going to make them leave. more mechs is really more fun. More to shoot at, more to do, small groups and flank, lights and go do other things especially in modes like incursion and conquest.

in 8v8 those modes won't even work.

Edited by Bigbacon, 25 August 2017 - 05:17 PM.

[MadRover]

Bigbacon, on 25 August 2017 - 05:15 PM, said:

yes, and guess how the chat will light up with crying babies when some new or old player comes into battle in some stock or weird build and isn't meta tryhard death ball laser vomiting or PPFLDing....they will be real and plentiful.

the old players remember 8v8 from a long time ago. the game was SO different back then and I think that has clouded them. We need more players not less and making the game more difficult for newer players is just going to make them leave. more mechs is really more fun. More to shoot at, more to do, small groups and flank, lights and go do other things especially in modes like incursion and conquest.

in 8v8 those modes won't even work.

You nailed it right here. People don't realize (or don't care) that PGI has to somehow bring people in. Going 8v8 is going to do the exact opposite that PGI has to accomplish. To fix the matchmaker is not to make 12v12 become 8v8. They have to actually quit messing around, grow up, stop lying to themselves, and FIX THE DAMN GAME. Fix the tier system. Fix how matchmaking works. Fix Faction War that everyone has been asking them to do. Add more maps to the game. STOP nerfing things because they can as in use some restraint on the nerf hammer. Once they do all of that, the next thing is advertise the game. Give it attention. Get major YouTubers to advertise their game. Anything and everything that says this game is fun. Come and play.

Next thing you know people will start populating the game and maybe we might even get some of those that left this game back because they see a new and improved version of the game.

[XDevilsChariotX]

Can't wait to play nothing but lurm assaults during this testing period. Def NAY!

[B0oN]

If somebody was advocating 36 vs. 36 in QP I´d be fire and flame for it, but 8 vs. 8 ... please don´t go back to that .

[poltergoost]

XDevilsChariotX, on 25 August 2017 - 08:57 PM, said:

Can't wait to play nothing but lurm assaults during this testing period. Def NAY!

Yep, the LRM Supernova is going to be busy

[g4borg]

I find 8v8 or lower should not be in quickplay in any way, quick play should deliver the largest current supported player numbers.

12v12 is almost standard now for multiplayer arenas. anything less is just steps backward.
if you want the game community to grow, going less players per game is the wrong way to go.

just look at the people advocating such a move: writing how glorious it was in the "old days", that they "would come back", and "game quality went down". Excuses! Because, honestly, for the larger anonymous mass, who will not forum fight here, and only leave quietly once things are not to their liking in a game, will prefer 12v12 or if possible even larger engagements, simply because there is more room for error.

It is easier to learn a game in a larger group, it feels like more of a battle, and there are enough other arena games out there, which feature low players per team.

it only became interesting to a major audience since the player numbers were increased. What you advocate is some whishful thinking, and the only reason games were more "interesting" to people back then was, and I can tell you without being one of the "old players", that you were still learning to play, and had more challenge by doing so, so that time feels a lot better in memory.

I just ask this question, which anyone whishing 8v8 were a thing,
There is competitive 8v8 mode, why are you not playing that, if you find 8v8 so much better?

My personal opinion

Spoiler

MWO in the past had a bad reputation because of its small scale 8v8 games outside the world of battletech fans, I can tell you that. If I was in a group talking about MWO, and why they didnt play it, it was the low players per battle argument which won the day. It felt basicly like a game from yesterday. I was after all curious, and wanted to get to know some fans of it, and it came up a lot.
Most of the ppl I met rather play war thunder, eve, or even robocraft, star conflict or any other arena fighting game. Of course, there are technical limits aswell, you do not need to explain me that, as I am writing network engines myself - but to be honest, it was also the major reason i did not play this game and just looked at it now and then for 2 years, playing other games instead, so it was even a personal reason for me.
I am one of those people who never really were into mechs, but all I met was people who just played it a while. I was eyeballing this game tho, especially since as a network programmer, the rewind feature was interesting.
Some things MWO does it does so well, I am totally envious, like the f2p concept of only two currencies, groups up to 12 people for matchmaking, etc. etc., sometimes I wonder if you guys, especially those who like to bicker how PGI seems to do their game, know, how valuable it is to have a developer like you got, and the features which work in this game, and how well some decisions were for you all over the long run - and think about the responsibilities of "older players" and reflect therally, if what you "whish for" and "push them to" is just romanticizing about the past, or really the way forward.
Call me triggered, after all this made me make a forum post, but this i think this is a major mistake pushing this idea, and you will only make yourself unhappy in the long run, without ever seeing all the benefits you whished for.

[No One Lives Forever]

8 vs 8 on huge maps we have now would be especially "fun". Esp. maps like Polar Highlands, Frozen City, Alpine Peaks.
I would prefer 16 vs 16 better than 8 vs 8. 8 vs 8 waits between maches probably would get longer than the matches itself.

So No, 12 vs 12 or even 16 vs 16.

Edited by No One Lives Forever, 26 August 2017 - 03:39 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

No One Lives Forever, on 26 August 2017 - 03:35 AM, said:

8 vs 8 on huge maps we have now would be especially "fun". Esp. maps like Polar Highlands, Frozen City, Alpine Peaks.
I would prefer 16 vs 16 better than 8 vs 8. 8 vs 8 waits between maches probably would get longer than the matches itself.

So No, 12 vs 12 or even 16 vs 16.

Make it configurable, PGI can press a button to select match size or allow match sizes to change based on population.

[El Bandito]

No One Lives Forever, on 26 August 2017 - 03:35 AM, said:

8 vs 8 on huge maps we have now would be especially "fun". Esp. maps like Polar Highlands, Frozen City, Alpine Peaks.

8v8 on Alpine was more fun than 12v12. It made the fights more personal, rather than blob vs. blob.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 August 2017 - 06:59 PM.

[poltergoost]

The number of AFKs/DCs is getting ridiculous now.

In 8v8, I'm not even going to bother playing if theres one on my team.

In comp, this is not an issue - the matches I've seen in comp play with DCs at the start agree to hold until the players reconnect.

In QP, this is not possible, so an AFK/DC will make a 7v8 match a total waste of time.

Edited by poltergoost, 26 August 2017 - 09:31 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

Asym, on 25 August 2017 - 05:10 PM, said:

NAY !

I've read all of the posts and looked up several of the respondents scores.....NAY.....

It's bad enough for new players as it is with 12x12.... You good players, tier 1 & 2 shouldn't be playing with the T4 & 5's and it seems, after reading many of the responses, you 'all want 8x8 not to better MWO............ The MWO "God Kings" should be in FP and Competition play honing to be E-Sport Gods..... Not messing with QP at all.

Good grief. Imagine yourself a new player with now seven other players counting on you not screwing up. The loss of one in 12 isn't too bad. The loss of one in eight is a lot more severe and I can gar-en-tee the better players will be vocally impressing their desires on new players strenously.............

Nay. Poor vehicle for new players.

This implies that T1/T2 players are all "good".

Oh, you have no idea how many are terrible but just simply got floated up the ranks because they just got stuck on enough good teams.

[Nemesis Duck]

There's been NAY reason given that heralds true to the propense that 12v12 is better. The reason it is that way is simple, elementary in fact, it's that 8v8 is better than 12v12 and frightfully to some in all regards. The simple truth is that it boils down to time and there's more of it with 8v8 which is scientifically proven to lead to better matches. Here's some examples.

- Veterens will have more time to focus on newbies
- Deathballs will be harder to find
- More opportunity to experiment with different tactics (time!)
- TTK goes up (THE HOLY GRAIL!)

The list goes on and I could bore you with all the particulars that press this idea farther into the minds that think, offering some reasoning against the rather uncompelling argument of "I don't like it" floating around, especially from those who appear so new and inexperienced, but I don't have time to spare. I tell you it's this game that needs it.

[L1f3H4ck]

8v8 was a lot brawlier, so yeah, I want it back

[El Bandito]

g4borg, on 26 August 2017 - 02:59 AM, said:

I find 8v8 or lower should not be in quickplay in any way, quick play should deliver the largest current supported player numbers.

12v12 is almost standard now for multiplayer arenas. anything less is just steps backward.

Those games have respawns. MWO's QP has none. It is much better to make the match last longer with 8v8 so that one life is actually worth playing for the time it took to join a match.

Asym, on 25 August 2017 - 05:10 PM, said:

It's bad enough for new players as it is with 12x12.... You good players, tier 1 & 2 shouldn't be playing with the T4 & 5's and it seems, after reading many of the responses, you 'all want 8x8 not to better MWO............ The MWO "God Kings" should be in FP and Competition play honing to be E-Sport Gods..... Not messing with QP at all.

Good grief. Imagine yourself a new player with now seven other players counting on you not screwing up. The loss of one in 12 isn't too bad. The loss of one in eight is a lot more severe and I can gar-en-tee the better players will be vocally impressing their desires on new players strenously.............

Nay. Poor vehicle for new players.

You post is misguided, as 8v8 actually helps MM so that less T3-4 will group with T1s. Simple math.

Edited by El Bandito, 27 August 2017 - 09:27 PM.

[PurplePuke]

El Bandito, on 22 July 2017 - 11:18 AM, said:

Read the post first and then vote for it here. https://mwomercs.com...for-solo-queue/

Bear in mind that I am advocating 8v8 on Solo-Queue only. There are several persistent and annoying in game issues we can alleviate by switching back to 8v8 in Solo-Q.

1. Reducing combatant numbers per match from 24 to 16 will mean there will be more matches happening at the same time, and making it easier for MM to find someone who have similar skill level as you. Wait time will also decrease.

Probably.

2. TTK will increase due to less people shooting at a single target, on average. I also remember back in 8v8 there were much less deathballing compared to 12v12, and more parts of the maps were utilized.

Illogical.

3. Needless to say, FPS performance should be better in a match with less people in it. Which means more players will be able to play this resource hogging MWO on their rigs--which will boost population.

Debatable.

4. 8v8 will also help players to better show off their personal skills and contribute more towards the match, and rely less on potatoes. Which will result in less frustration towards the pug lottery.

Illogical.

Note: Naturally 8v8 will have higher rewards to account for less amount of mechs destroyed. Paul might try to cheat us out of C-Bill rewards, like he did when 12v12 was introduced, but we will keep a sharp eye on it, along with our torches and pitchforks.

Meh.