1809 replies to this topic

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Metus regem, on 03 April 2018 - 09:34 AM, said:

Can we loot them first?

Remember it's Pillage then burn.

Gotta remember those order of operations.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Where Battletech Effed up was getting a license from Robotech in the first place. The reason Harmony Gold is coming after PGI with this garbage is because of that old license despite there being no similarities between the art except for them all being big stompy robots.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

MechWarrior5152251, on 03 April 2018 - 09:43 AM, said:

Where Battletech Effed up was getting a license from Robotech in the first place. The reason Harmony Gold is coming after PGI with this garbage is because of that old license despite there being no similarities between the art except for them all being big stompy robots.

They never got a license "from robotech"

They got a license, to use specific designs from "Super Dimension Fortress Macross." As well as from "Fang of the Sun Dogrum" and "Crusher Joe". They licensed these designs, from a company back in the 80's.



The reasons for this, were simple, those series,had model kits ready to go that could be used for their game. This allowed for the development of the game system, and to save money on designing custom designs for their game, and cut down on overhead of having to cast their own models and the like.

REALLY, if you want to dig WAY the hell back, and point to who caused all these problems? Playmates during their time working on ExoSquad.

Back in the early 90's, FASA was shipping around an idea for a Battletech series of toys, as well as an animated series and all [which got made].. they passed the idea to playmates... and Playmates, while in talks with FASA... squirrled away a specific mech design that FASA showed them.. in fact, you might recognize it:

Say Hello to the "Exo Squad Heavy Attack E-frame!"

or better known to those of us in the Battletech/Mechwarrior fandom as the Timber Wolf/ Mad Cat!

Playmates flat out STOLE this design from FASA, and incorporated it into their Exosquad line.

FASA brought lawsuit against playmates... Playmates however, was in bed with Harmony Gold, pushing out Robotech figures under the Exosquad toyline


Harmony Gold stepped forward, and accused FASA of stealing "Robotech Designs" for their Battletech game. Despite FASA having licensed those designs.

After a bunch of litigation, and finally a settlement by Jordan Wiseman due to FASA not having the money, FASA dropped the designs they licensed, and redesigned everything they'd had for over a decade.

Playmates continued making their exosquad toys.

Harmony Gold began their long line of squatting on Robotech and ******* with Battletech.

Then in 2009 This trailer hit:


Harmony Gold issued a CnD against the trailer... over the depiction of the Warhammer battlemech [and I've heard rumors because of the jenner too.]

3 years later, MWO was released.

you can basically trace everything else easily enough, until we're here now.

[Adridos]

MechWarrior5152251, on 03 April 2018 - 09:43 AM, said:

Where Battletech Effed up was getting a license from Robotech in the first place.

FASA F*ed up a lot of things, but this wasn't one of them. Battletech predates Robotech.
Robotech came to blight the Earth in March of 1985, Battletech dates to September of 1984.

The real issue is FASA liked to steal stuff. No getting around that. They got rights to miniature toys and pulled the rest out of their bottoms. They did, actually, eventually steal stuff from Robotech. The post-Robotech books include mechs like the titular machine of Mospeada... you know, only known to FASA throught RT. 90s came and and the hobby got big enough that actual law started being upheld. No longer a wild west, Harmony Gold (having stolen stuff from BT) and FASA (having stolen stuff from RT) came down to a 12 o'clock shoot-out, cowboy style. FASA forgot to bring a revolver (they never once even entertained the thought of actually putting down the money to get the license proper, even though they could afford it) and was left bleeding out in front of the saloon.

Edited by Adridos, 03 April 2018 - 10:18 AM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Adridos, on 03 April 2018 - 10:18 AM, said:

(they never once even entertained the thought of actually putting down the money to get the license proper, even though they could afford it)

I keep wondering where people keep getting this idea, because they have flat out stated in the past they licensed the designs through 21st century imports.

[Adridos]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 03 April 2018 - 10:45 AM, said:

I keep wondering where people keep getting this idea, because they have flat out stated in the past they licensed the designs through 21st century imports.

Yes. However, TCI only held the rights to miniatures. FASA knew it all too well and did nothing.
It was actually their first line of defense for the original Unseen case. They cited getting the license for model kits from TCI, to which the court replied "That's nice and all, but you're using them all throughout your game. Not just the miniatures."

And FASA had repeatedly been warned of them not having the rights over and over and over again. Harmony Gold is a disgusting piece of garbage of a company. However, FASA made their bed with the unseen themselves. You can see this as early as 1985. They got a C&D from HG and an inquiry as to where the hell they got the alleged license from since, clearly, HG owned it. Ral Partha, likewise, asked them to fess up on the rights. Getting a blunt "All's fine." answer from FASA, the legal team told them to specifically alter the designs FASA was asking them to make since this was not strictly legal. This is where the old designs which look almost exactly like the original designs (but not really) come from. Stuff like Battleax, Bombardier or the Flea. This sort of "We'd like to work on Battletech but you're clearly doing shady business here," was an all too common story with the old Battletech.

[Horseman]

Adridos, on 03 April 2018 - 10:18 AM, said:

They did, actually, eventually steal stuff from Robotech. The post-Robotech books include mechs like the titular machine of Mospeada...

Never heard that one before. Which book, which mech?

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Adridos, on 03 April 2018 - 11:09 AM, said:

Yes. However, TCI only held the rights to miniatures. FASA knew it all too well and did nothing.
It was actually their first line of defense for the original Unseen case. They cited getting the license for model kits from TCI, to which the court replied "That's nice and all, but you're using them all throughout your game. Not just the miniatures."

And FASA had repeatedly been warned of them not having the rights over and over and over again. Harmony Gold is a disgusting piece of garbage of a company. However, FASA made their bed with the unseen themselves. You can see this as early as 1985. They got a C&D from HG and an inquiry as to where the hell they got the alleged license from since, clearly, HG owned it. Ral Partha, likewise, asked them to fess up on the rights. Getting a blunt "All's fine." answer from FASA, the legal team told them to specifically alter the designs FASA was asking them to make since this was not strictly legal. This is where the old designs which look almost exactly like the original designs (but not really) come from. Stuff like Battleax, Bombardier or the Flea. This sort of "We'd like to work on Battletech but you're clearly doing shady business here," was an all too common story with the old Battletech.

And maybe you're right about that, I have no idea where you're getting this information.

Regardless, back in the 80's, that's kinda how business was done... however in 92/93 was when playmates stole the Mad Cat/Timberwolf design.

So yeah, sure, FASA may have been shady on the rights, and no, they didn't own them at the time, but now, we have to look forward to now. and NOW... it seems HG doesn't own the **** they thought they did back then, which means that, when you REALLY get down to brass tacks. With everything that's been stated lately and found out about just what HG has? Which is jack squat... if you want to argue semantics, it sure as hell seems that FASA had more rights [given the imagry to the models would have been licensed, thus giving them rights to use those images within their matieral.] than HG ever did.

[Adridos]

Horseman, on 03 April 2018 - 12:05 PM, said:

Never heard that one before. Which book, which mech?

Spider and the Wolf, there's several. It's my favorite example because the picture is available online if you're google-savvy enough. Sarna even notes it in its entry, since it's one of the more well known.

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 03 April 2018 - 12:07 PM, said:

if you want to argue semantics, it sure as hell seems that FASA had more rights [given the imagry to the models would have been licensed, thus giving them rights to use those images within their matieral.] than HG ever did.

That's not how the laws work. I'm not touching the current case, in which HG better go down under as they should have many, many years ago. But I can't stand people glorifying FASA, which was just as much of a scumbag-driven company as HG. Defending FASA's actions back then is like defending HG today from the standpoint of a Robotech fan. Hypocrisy is no good, especially when there is absolutely no need for it.

You're free to look up the countless write-ups many people in our community poured research and passion into. Stuff like http://www.sarna.net..._and_BattleTech should give you more than enough of an idea. But there's hundreds upon hundreds of threads discussing the details online since 1996 so you're free to retread and confirm all the research yourself.

Edited by Adridos, 03 April 2018 - 12:39 PM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Adridos, on 03 April 2018 - 12:38 PM, said:

Spider and the Wolf, there's several. It's my favorite example because the picture is available online if you're google-savvy enough. Sarna even notes it in its entry, since it's one of the more well known.



That's not how the laws work. I'm not touching the current case, in which HG better go down under as they should have many, many years ago. But I can't stand people glorifying FASA, which was just as much of a scumbag-driven company as HG. Defending FASA's actions back then is like defending HG today from the standpoint of a Robotech fan. Hypocrisy is no good, especially when there is absolutely no need for it.

You're free to look up the countless write-ups many people in our community poured research and passion into. Stuff like http://www.sarna.net..._and_BattleTech should give you more than enough of an idea. But there's hundreds upon hundreds of threads discussing the details online since 1996 so you're free to retread and confirm all the research yourself.

That's fair, but I'd also like to point out, everything I've pointed out, and all of my stances, are from my own exhaustive research into this since 2012.

[Vanguard319]

What has Harmony Gold done with their IP recently? Sure they had the Shadow Chronicles, which was supposed to lead up to a new series, but it never materialized. I think it's pretty safe to say that the franchise is dead and not coming back. When you throw in the facts that the Battletech IP was created first, and Harmony Gold had no right to copyright those images, you would think any sensible judge would throw out the suit as frivolous.

[Shadowomega1]

Vanguard it went like all of HG's kickstarters, ended early and the money vanished into thin air. (Really either going into their pockets or to the lawsuit against PGI)

[Exilyth]

If only this wasn't moving at such a snails pace.

Quote

FASA

Please do not beat dead horses.

[Horseman]

Vanguard319, on 03 April 2018 - 01:03 PM, said:

What has Harmony Gold done with their IP recently? Sure they had the Shadow Chronicles, which was supposed to lead up to a new series, but it never materialized. I think it's pretty safe to say that the franchise is dead and not coming back. When you throw in the facts that the Battletech IP was created first, and Harmony Gold had no right to copyright those images, you would think any sensible judge would throw out the suit as frivolous.

They sublicensed several new boardgames after taking away Palladium's license.
They also seem to be trying to get a movie produced.

[Dee Eight]

They have to hurry on the movie because Tatsanuko's license to them expires in 2021, and that is for ALL the international broadcast rights... not just macross...but southern cross and mospeada also.

[Ken Harkin]

How is the spider in any way a Robotech design from any of the three shows?

[Zergling]

Ken Harkin, on 03 April 2018 - 07:37 PM, said:

How is the spider in any way a Robotech design from any of the three shows?

He's talking about this, not the mech.

[Horseman]

Dun, dun! PGI opposed the request for letter rogatory!
https://drive.google...3NYN0-srkg/view

[DiabetesOverlord Wilford Brimley]

Hope HG burns and pays out the *** for this!

[Adridos]

Horseman, on 03 April 2018 - 10:19 PM, said:

Dun, dun! PGI opposed the request for letter rogatory!
https://drive.google...3NYN0-srkg/view

Now to wait for court's response with crossed fingers and everything.