1809 replies to this topic

[James The Fox Dixon]

Adridos, on 09 June 2018 - 10:53 AM, said:

The game had production concept art. FASA made use of that concept art. Incubus was the unused concept art for the Phoenix Hawk.

"A few months later"

Mechwarrior 1 for PC-98 is the newest of these games. The game re-uses the same mech designs from the X68k version from July 1992.
You're looking at 2-3 years between the creation of the mech designs and the first notion of a lawsuit.

That's nice and all, but it changes nothing about the lawsuits not starting until years later.
Harmony Gold also sent a C&D to FASA regarding the use of Macross designs all the way back in 1985. FASA never really cared.

Incorrect since the Incubus was a brand new artwork done by VMI. VMI had nothing to do with the Macross anime. The Phoenix Hawk was the VF-1S from Macross. Under copyright law, art has to be a minimum of 30% difference before it's considered a new design. Elements that look similar fall under scenes a faire which means that it is a common trait that cannot be copyrighted. For example, you have a tank with a turret and treads. The turret and treads fall under scenes a faire and cannot be copyrighted. The same is true for 'Mechs.

You are also taking a Japanese video game to establish a false premise. The game was never officially exported outside of Japan, so Japanese copyright law applies. According to Japanese copyright law said mech designs belong to their appropriate owners and you have no documentation to show that the mechs used were not licensed under Japanese copyright law. Provide that documentation to prove your point.

Link to the cease and desist letter from Discord Pyrite as I've never heard of it.

Yes, that's how publication works. I never stated when the work was first started, but since you moved the goal post to "win" then we can safely say that Japanese Battletech was begun either in 1990-1991. For TRO3055, you can say the same. It doesn't impact the timeline at all on when the lawsuits occurred or when Discord Pyrite and Playmates worked in conjunction to go after FASA.

I believe that we're done here since you do not address any of the points I brought up and ignore them. A good example of this is me pointing out that Discord Pyrite claims ownership to all big stompy robots in North America.

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 12 June 2018 - 09:29 AM.

[James Argent]

Quote

The Phoenix Hawk was the VF-1J from Macross.

Phoenix Hawk (four BattleTech antennae/Macross 'head lasers') = Super VF-1S
Wasp (four antennae) = VF-1S
Stinger (one antenna) = VF-1A
Crusader (one antenna) = Armored VF-1A*

*Though the only 'Armored VF-1' I can recall seeing in the anime was a VF-1J, the Unseen Crusader has a single antenna, making it derived from a VF-1A. I don't know of any BattleTech use of the VF-1J (or D) with two antennae.

(Edited to remove weird auto-format)

Edited by James Argent, 09 June 2018 - 09:46 PM.

[Lykaon]

James Argent, on 09 June 2018 - 09:44 PM, said:

Phoenix Hawk (four BattleTech antennae/Macross 'head lasers') = Super VF-1S
Wasp (four antennae) = VF-1S
Stinger (one antenna) = VF-1A
Crusader (one antenna) = Armored VF-1A*

*Though the only 'Armored VF-1' I can recall seeing in the anime was a VF-1J, the Unseen Crusader has a single antenna, making it derived from a VF-1A. I don't know of any BattleTech use of the VF-1J (or D) with two antennae.

(Edited to remove weird auto-format)

Don't forget the Valkyrie 30 ton battlemech that also had 4 antennae also derived from the VF-1S and also used the name given to the mecha in the Macross films that was also called a Valkyrie.

[evilauthor]

Adridos, on 08 June 2018 - 06:26 AM, said:

5 is out of the question. If they could (or wanted to) stop Harmony Gold from suing again, they would have asked for a settlement with prejudice. The fact it's not the case clearly shows the opposite.

I dunno. Wasn't it already mentioned upthread somewhere that HG is already losing any and all Macross rights it actually has in 2021 with absolutely less than zero chance of getting it renewed? That doesn't seem like enough time to sue ANYONE making a Battletech product, especially since the only likely Battletech producers they could sue just beat them over the head in the current legal battle.

So does it matter if the case gets dismissed without prejudice if HG is going to lose all ability to sue anyway in 2021?

[James The Fox Dixon]

James Argent, on 09 June 2018 - 09:44 PM, said:

Phoenix Hawk (four BattleTech antennae/Macross 'head lasers') = Super VF-1S
Wasp (four antennae) = VF-1S
Stinger (one antenna) = VF-1A
Crusader (one antenna) = Armored VF-1A*

*Though the only 'Armored VF-1' I can recall seeing in the anime was a VF-1J, the Unseen Crusader has a single antenna, making it derived from a VF-1A. I don't know of any BattleTech use of the VF-1J (or D) with two antennae.

(Edited to remove weird auto-format)

Well it's still a VF-1 version which shares nothing with the Incubus as was claimed.

[Sereglach]

evilauthor, on 09 June 2018 - 10:27 PM, said:

I dunno. Wasn't it already mentioned upthread somewhere that HG is already losing any and all Macross rights it actually has in 2021 with absolutely less than zero chance of getting it renewed? That doesn't seem like enough time to sue ANYONE making a Battletech product, especially since the only likely Battletech producers they could sue just beat them over the head in the current legal battle.

So does it matter if the case gets dismissed without prejudice if HG is going to lose all ability to sue anyway in 2021?

Actually, you caught something Adridos said that is actually worth correcting. The case, itself, has NOT been dismissed in any way. The only thing that happened was that HG and PGI removed their current motions without prejudice. The reason this was done is because the parties involved have decided to sit down to the settlement table. If a settlement is reached, then it's basically a given that there will be no more lawsuits against PGI over anything unseen related. However, to know the details we'd have to see the settlement documents if/when they're made available for public viewing.

That said, if at any time the negotiations fall through, both parties can go right back to the judge, reactivate their prior motions, and everything picks up right where it left off. That is why their motions where dismissed without prejudice. It's an insurance policy that the court case won't be interrupted if negotiations fall through. In fact, stipulation (3) of the "if we fail to settle" section ensures that if the motions get reactivated there's no renewed back-and-forth debating and the judge immediately goes to making decisions on the prior motions.

Now, as to the other point you bring up about the Macross rights and HG, they are set to lose all of their rights in 2021 as far as I know. Also, given the high levels of animosity between HG and Big West/Studio Nue, the chances of HG getting to renew those rights are somewhere between zero and none. What happens to the Macross IP after that, outside of Japan, is anyone's guess, but given they way they seem to carry themselves, I doubt they'll be suing over anything inspired by their work that's encouraging more love for giant stompy robot franchises. They will likely only be concerned if it's an absolutely undeniable copy of their work; and that's nothing that PGI has produced.

[Adridos]

Sereglach, on 10 June 2018 - 07:36 AM, said:

Now, as to the other point you bring up about the Macross rights and HG, they are set to lose all of their rights in 2021 as far as I know. Also, given the high levels of animosity between HG and Big West/Studio Nue, the chances of HG getting to renew those rights are somewhere between zero and none.

HG loses the rights in 2021, however if they were to relicense them, they would go to Tatsunoko (who own the international distrub. rights) and not Big West. They had that recent arbitration with them, but companies aren't individuals and don't hold grudges or anything of the sort. Whether Tatsunoko extends the license or not depends on whether or not it is the most economically lucrative option from their side. Realistically, they'd probably have to get approached by Big West for the rights beforehand. Of course, Tatsunoko and Big West history is about as friendly as the one between HG and BT, so it comes down to economic calculations.

James The Fox Dixon, on 09 June 2018 - 11:36 AM, said:

Link to the cease and desist letter from Discord Pyrite as I've never heard of it.

You literally provided a link to that very detail in the previous post of yours. It's all right there: "In January 1985, Harmony Gold became aware that FASA was using Macross mecha designs, sent a cease and desist letter, and exchanged correspondence with FASA to determine the source of their alleged rights in these designs."
But I digress, I have better things to do with my time than argue [Redacted].

You should read through the link you yourself have provided. Then bridge the knowledge with https://drive.google...d7dcVThDVsqmc/. [Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 11 June 2018 - 05:06 PM.
unconstructive

[Sereglach]

Adridos, on 10 June 2018 - 11:57 PM, said:

HG loses the rights in 2021, however if they were to relicense them, they would go to Tatsunoko (who own the international distrub. rights) and not Big West. They had that recent arbitration with them, but companies aren't individuals and don't hold grudges or anything of the sort. Whether Tatsunoko extends the license or not depends on whether or not it is the most economically lucrative option from their side. Realistically, they'd probably have to get approached by Big West for the rights beforehand. Of course, Tatsunoko and Big West history is about as friendly as the one between HG and BT, so it comes down to economic calculations.

To say that companies don't hold grudges is patently absurd. Are you even looking at what this original lawsuit is over and who HG targeted? That alone shows grudges between HG and Jordan Weisman, since he was one of their first -and primary- targets and reasons for the lawsuit. Besides, have you ever heard of the feud and animosity between Microsoft and Apple, all because Steve Jobs and Bill Gates each decided to stab each other in the back? I assure you that animosity is still alive and going strong, even to this day.

When companies have bad blood through their business dealings they don't forget it; and HG completely screwed over both Tatsunoko and Big West/Studio Nue. If you think those companies don't hold a grudge and think that companies don't hold grudges I don't know what to tell you . . . especially since you completely contradict yourself when you talk about the terrible relationship between Tatsunoko and Big West yourself, later in the post. That's a business grudge; and they do exist.

Adridos, on 10 June 2018 - 11:57 PM, said:

You literally provided a link to that very detail in the previous post of yours. It's all right there: "In January 1985, Harmony Gold became aware that FASA was using Macross mecha designs, sent a cease and desist letter, and exchanged correspondence with FASA to determine the source of their alleged rights in these designs."
But I digress, I have better things to do with my time than argue [Redacted].

You should read through the link you yourself have provided. Then bridge the knowledge with https://drive.google...d7dcVThDVsqmc/. [Redacted]

The designs that HG became aware of, and sent a cease and desist letter over, have absolutely NOTHING to do with the VMI designs and EVERYTHING to do with the original designs for the classics, that were licensed from Twentieth Century Imports to FASA. HG alleged that TCI didn't have the rights to license what they did and FASA had to stop using them. Nothing from VMI is involved in that. VMI designs were NEVER involved in any lawsuit, cease and desist letter, or litigation.

It's been made crystal clear numerous times that the ONLY reason FASA pulled the VMI designs were because they weren't done "in house" . . . therefore FASA didn't want to take any chances on other companies -in this case VMI- revoking licenses and suing them. FASA was already crippled after the lawsuit with Playmates; and that's when HG took the opportunity to strike. The underhanded tactics involved in that, with HG and Playmates teaming up shortly after FASA tried to team up with Playmates, are a whole other story.

Edited by draiocht, 11 June 2018 - 05:09 PM.
Quote Clean-Up

[Adridos]

Sereglach, on 11 June 2018 - 02:06 PM, said:

...especially since you completely contradict yourself when you talk about the terrible relationship between Tatsunoko and Big West yourself, later in the post. That's a business grudge; and they do exist.

I pointed that out as a counter-argument for if you pulled the "But they totally do hold grudges" [Redacted] that you, in fact, did.
Even if you somehow had this Japanese conglomerate whose leadership does not even speak English or knows some Harmony Gold exists have a real grudge against them and refuse to license out to them, the only alternative is Big West, which is within the world-view of companies acting like [Redacted].

Also, Tatsunoko and Big West do cooperate all the time. Despite having gone through a series of repeated lawsuits which lasted years before both sides, reluctantly accepted the courts' decisions. You have no idea what the situation between those two companies is. [Redacted]

Let's agree to disagree and cut this off here to not waste either of our times further.

Edited by draiocht, 11 June 2018 - 05:26 PM.
unconstructive, inappropriate language

[Sereglach]

Adridos, on 11 June 2018 - 02:30 PM, said:

*snip*

Sadly, it's worth posting the corrections over, and over, and over again because you're feeding false information into a forum thread that's already discussing something that's currently a tense and sensitive legal subject.

Every time you've been targeted with the facts of the situation, you spout off opinions that have no substance, no actual precedent, and completely avoid the information presented to you.

Would you please cite where HG's cease and desist letter was targeting the VMI artwork that was never involved in any form of legal action?

Would you please cite where Tatsunoko and Big West have created NEW dealings with each other that do not involve legal rulings that were made in Japan, over deals they already have?

Would you please cite where the aforementioned companies, despite Big West and Tatsunoko leadership having bad blood and publicly stated negative opinions towards HG, would be interested in future business with HG?

You've failed to actually address all of these issues with any real substance . . . just insults and supposition.

Therefore, if you want to agree to disagree, then fine. However, for future reference, when you're making statements about the history of current legal proceedings, it would be sincerely appreciated if you'd cite material to actually support your case rather than spout off in supposition. Evidence has been collectively given by people who do NOT share your opinion multiple times (James the Fox Dixon's, in particular, is quite solid).

Also, the consistent poor attitude does nothing to help your case and is entirely uncalled for. We're trying to have civil discourse, here, and not ruin a forum thread keeping track of -and discussing merit, background, etc.- a very sensitive court case for PGI. In reality, this thread shouldn't even exist, and creating issues for it isn't going to help matters any. However, it provides the player base with one collective location to discuss the matter and prevents it from running rampant over the forums. Therefore, it's in everyone's best interest to keep as civil and respectable as possible.

[Akillius]

Kids kids you all gotta calm down besides...

Sereglach, on 11 June 2018 - 02:06 PM, said:

licensed from Twentieth Century Imports to FASA.

There's a BIG piece of history ya'll forgot about that 1996-1998 lawsuit.

Yes FASA and HG both purchased rights from 2 different companies.
1. (Correct) TCI did not have the right to resell to FASA, nor to anyone.
2. HG only had the rights to televised content, animations, and video content.

HG lawyers were sent reeling when it was proven they had no rights to enforce anything outside that content.
And they would've also had their lawsuit thrown out if they didn't go looking deeply in their records.

3. Years earlier Revell purchased the rights to models, and by extension the drawings and the marketing of such physical goods.
4. Sometime in the 1980's HG reached an agreement with Revell to make HG's plastic kits and the agreement listed HG as partners.
If it wasn't for that Revell agreement HG would've had their lawsuit against FASA thrown out.
But both Revells and their later agreement with HG was a great many decades ago and both long since expired.

SO what agreement does HG have now???

Edited by Max Rickson, 11 June 2018 - 06:30 PM.

[evilauthor]

Max Rickson, on 11 June 2018 - 06:29 PM, said:

SO what agreement does HG have now???

Apparently nothing, hence the "no standing" bashing they just went through and the current settlement talks.

[Sereglach]

Max Rickson, on 11 June 2018 - 06:29 PM, said:

*snip*

Actually, as to the first part, most of us have been advocating that since the beginning of this lawsuit; and it's one of PGI's big points in this case. When the recent Tatsunoko v. HG litigation went public, and was given an official court ruling in US Federal Circuit Court, it was clear HG's case vs. PGI just bit the big one. Then to add to that fact was one of PGI's last dockets, that was submitted to the court, saying (paraphrasing) that 30 years of HG bullying people who didn't have the money or incentive to stand up against them doesn't set precedent to them having the rights to anything. I think that summed up most of our feelings in a beautiful way.

However, the second part makes an interesting point. I don't know how relevant it is to the current suit, but it does make you wonder if their earlier suits would have made it very far without the deal. Sadly, it doesn't matter, because what's done is done.

evilauthor, on 11 June 2018 - 06:41 PM, said:

Apparently nothing, hence the "no standing" bashing they just went through and the current settlement talks.

Beat me to the punchline as I was typing my response. Although, I don't know if I'd call it "bashing" so much as I'd call it being thoroughly legally trounced.

Edited by Sereglach, 11 June 2018 - 06:47 PM.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Sereglach, on 11 June 2018 - 02:06 PM, said:

To say that companies don't hold grudges is patently absurd. Are you even looking at what this original lawsuit is over and who HG targeted? That alone shows grudges between HG and Jordan Weisman, since he was one of their first -and primary- targets and reasons for the lawsuit. Besides, have you ever heard of the feud and animosity between Microsoft and Apple, all because Steve Jobs and Bill Gates each decided to stab each other in the back? I assure you that animosity is still alive and going strong, even to this day.

When companies have bad blood through their business dealings they don't forget it; and HG completely screwed over both Tatsunoko and Big West/Studio Nue. If you think those companies don't hold a grudge and think that companies don't hold grudges I don't know what to tell you . . . especially since you completely contradict yourself when you talk about the terrible relationship between Tatsunoko and Big West yourself, later in the post. That's a business grudge; and they do exist.


The designs that HG became aware of, and sent a cease and desist letter over, have absolutely NOTHING to do with the VMI designs and EVERYTHING to do with the original designs for the classics, that were licensed from Twentieth Century Imports to FASA. HG alleged that TCI didn't have the rights to license what they did and FASA had to stop using them. Nothing from VMI is involved in that. VMI designs were NEVER involved in any lawsuit, cease and desist letter, or litigation.

It's been made crystal clear numerous times that the ONLY reason FASA pulled the VMI designs were because they weren't done "in house" . . . therefore FASA didn't want to take any chances on other companies -in this case VMI- revoking licenses and suing them. FASA was already crippled after the lawsuit with Playmates; and that's when HG took the opportunity to strike. The underhanded tactics involved in that, with HG and Playmates teaming up shortly after FASA tried to team up with Playmates, are a whole other story.

Thank you for replying to him. After him repeatedly insulting me I have decided to ignore him. You said what I would have said.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Max Rickson, on 11 June 2018 - 06:29 PM, said:

Kids kids you all gotta calm down besides...


There's a BIG piece of history ya'll forgot about that 1996-1998 lawsuit.

Yes FASA and HG both purchased rights from 2 different companies.
1. (Correct) TCI did not have the right to resell to FASA, nor to anyone.
2. HG only had the rights to televised content, animations, and video content.

HG lawyers were sent reeling when it was proven they had no rights to enforce anything outside that content.
And they would've also had their lawsuit thrown out if they didn't go looking deeply in their records.

3. Years earlier Revell purchased the rights to models, and by extension the drawings and the marketing of such physical goods.
4. Sometime in the 1980's HG reached an agreement with Revell to make HG's plastic kits and the agreement listed HG as partners.
If it wasn't for that Revell agreement HG would've had their lawsuit against FASA thrown out.
But both Revells and their later agreement with HG was a great many decades ago and both long since expired.

SO what agreement does HG have now???

I haven't seen where TCI didn't have the ability to sub-license the license they received. I only know of a comment from a former Studio Nue/Big West employee saying that FASA didn't have the licensing rights to use the box art in its advertising. He said nothing about the models that TCI was reselling in the US.

To clarify the TCI license, they got it directly from Studio Nue and sold the miniatures to FASA. The license for the box art was not given to FASA at the time since the copyrights were a big mess. Studio Nue, Big West, and Tatsunoko had no idea who had what. I will give FASA and TCI the benefit of the doubt as they had always acted in good faith.

EDIT: I did touch upon the first set of lawsuits between FASA, Playmates, and Discord Pyrite.

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 11 June 2018 - 07:11 PM.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Sereglach, on 11 June 2018 - 02:06 PM, said:

To say that companies don't hold grudges is patently absurd. Are you even looking at what this original lawsuit is over and who HG targeted? That alone shows grudges between HG and Jordan Weisman, since he was one of their first -and primary- targets and reasons for the lawsuit. Besides, have you ever heard of the feud and animosity between Microsoft and Apple, all because Steve Jobs and Bill Gates each decided to stab each other in the back? I assure you that animosity is still alive and going strong, even to this day.

When companies have bad blood through their business dealings they don't forget it; and HG completely screwed over both Tatsunoko and Big West/Studio Nue. If you think those companies don't hold a grudge and think that companies don't hold grudges I don't know what to tell you . . . especially since you completely contradict yourself when you talk about the terrible relationship between Tatsunoko and Big West yourself, later in the post. That's a business grudge; and they do exist.


The designs that HG became aware of, and sent a cease and desist letter over, have absolutely NOTHING to do with the VMI designs and EVERYTHING to do with the original designs for the classics, that were licensed from Twentieth Century Imports to FASA. HG alleged that TCI didn't have the rights to license what they did and FASA had to stop using them. Nothing from VMI is involved in that. VMI designs were NEVER involved in any lawsuit, cease and desist letter, or litigation.

It's been made crystal clear numerous times that the ONLY reason FASA pulled the VMI designs were because they weren't done "in house" . . . therefore FASA didn't want to take any chances on other companies -in this case VMI- revoking licenses and suing them. FASA was already crippled after the lawsuit with Playmates; and that's when HG took the opportunity to strike. The underhanded tactics involved in that, with HG and Playmates teaming up shortly after FASA tried to team up with Playmates, are a whole other story.

Looking at his links to the Japanese BattleTech: Stolen Chalice all the art was done by VMI and didn't adhere to the Macross designs. They were done in the style of the Japanese Battletech miniatures game. It also wasn't released until 1992 for the Sharp X68000 and 1993 for the PC-98. Blows his theory out of the water that the designs in the game by VMI were Macross. It was part of the art done for Japanese Battletech and brought over to the US as for the TRO3055.

Only the US version of MechWarrior had the Unseen mechs in all their glory.

http://www.mobygames...or/release-info

Also due to the eras 3d graphics one could hardly make the claim that primitive vector graphics were able to replicate anything in great detail. It was our imagination that made those mechs look like they did in the artwork.

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 12 June 2018 - 12:41 AM.

[Adridos]

James The Fox Dixon, on 12 June 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

Looking at his links to the Japanese BattleTech: Stolen Chalice all the art was done by VMI and didn't adhere to the Macross designs. They were done in the style of the Japanese Battletech miniatures game. It also wasn't released until 1992 for the Sharp X68000 and 1993 for the PC-98. Blows his theory out of the water that the designs in the game by VMI were Macross. It was part of the art done for Japanese Battletech and brought over to the US as for the TRO3055.

Wait, man. I checked once again and wow! You're right.

It goes without saying that this design:


Is derived from this:


And not this:


How could I have been so blind!

The same goes for all of them, feel free to look them up, I quite like the Japanese edition designs even for all their weirdness.

James The Fox Dixon, on 11 June 2018 - 06:56 PM, said:

To clarify the TCI license, they got it directly from Studio Nue and sold the miniatures to FASA. The license for the box art was not given to FASA at the time since the copyrights were a big mess. Studio Nue, Big West, and Tatsunoko had no idea who had what. I will give FASA and TCI the benefit of the doubt as they had always acted in good faith.

TCI license was from Tatsunoko, not Studio Nue. The source is, once again, your own. Which you still refuse to read for some reason, despite citing it.

To Serglach:

Spoiler

Since you asked so "nicely".

Sereglach, on 11 June 2018 - 03:08 PM, said:

Would you please cite where HG's cease and desist letter was targeting the VMI artwork that was never involved in any form of legal action?

Would you please cite, where I claimed anything of the sort? Because I did not.

Sereglach, on 11 June 2018 - 03:08 PM, said:

Would you please cite where Tatsunoko and Big West have created NEW dealings with each other that do not involve legal rulings that were made in Japan, over deals they already have?

Usage of footage from SDFMacross in the last Tokyo Skytree event, usage of footage in Macross Delta, usage of footage and still in 歌マクロス, and many more. Whenever SDF Macross is involved, so it Tatsunoko.
Tatsunoko owns the original show in Japan, excluding only the specific character/mech designs and sharing the right to make sequels.

Sereglach, on 11 June 2018 - 03:08 PM, said:

Would you please cite where the aforementioned companies, despite Big West and Tatsunoko leadership having bad blood and publicly stated negative opinions towards HG, would be interested in future business with HG?

Tatsunoko's numerous extensions of the license, in spite of Hamony Gold's actions throghout. The last deal was in 2012.

I'd appreciate if you upheld your part of the "I'm not going to talk with you anymore" and let other people form their own opinion from the sources provided. Yours is already set in stone and we've already heard it many times. Mine won't budge, either.

Edited by Adridos, 12 June 2018 - 01:17 AM.

[James The Fox Dixon]

No, the license was from Nippan Sunrise and Studio Nue. As the copyright notice on the boxes in 1986 say, "Molding by Nitto Originally Dougram™ and Crusher Joe & The Hunters™, licensed by Nippan {sic} Sunrise of Japan, Exclusively manufactured for TCI. Contents & Packaging (C) 1986 by Twentieth Century Imports. BattleTech & Concepts™ 1985 by FASA Corporation. With sincere thanks to Tatsunoko Productions and Nippan Sunrise of Japan."

http://www.sarna.net...e-unseen-mechs/

Nippan Sunrise animated both Dougram and Crusher Joe & The Hunters. Studio Nue helped animate Crusher Joe. Tatsunoko had nothing to do with either of those series. There is no mention of them having any copyright holdings. It merely says "With sincere thanks to" and that is not an indication of them being involved in the license or having copyrights to the products listed. The only people that could license the two animes listed is Nippan Sunrise and/or Studio Nue. Notice that the contents and packaging says Copyright 1986 TCI? Yeah, they got their copyrights from Studio Nue and Nippan Sunrise. Oh the models sold to FASA were only in the Battledroids release of the game and TCI went out of business either immediately after they sold the batch that had this copyright notice on it or before it.

It is as I said, TCI received their license from Studio Nue. I left out Nippan Sunrise so excuse me.


Even the person I linked to was wrong. Imagine that, but what do expect from the opposition as it is a Robotech page.

Oh and all the art you linked doesn't share anything with Macross. You are failing to account for scenes a faire as all bipedal mechs have two arms, two legs, a torso, two feet, and one head. The design from the Japanese Battletech: Stolen Chalice exceeds the 30% likeness standard and is new art. Is it derivative of Macross, Crusher Joe, or Dougram? No, it's derivative of the work VMI did for TWO 3055. Also, Tatsunoko couldn't license Crusher Joe or Dougram as they had nothing to do with it. The mechs you are showing off comes from those series. FASA dumped those designs like they did with the VMI designs. Not because Discord Pyrite had anything to say, but in response to expel all outside art to prohibit future lawsuits.

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 12 June 2018 - 01:54 AM.

[Anjian]

Adridos, on 12 June 2018 - 12:56 AM, said:

Wait, man. I checked once again and wow! You're right. It goes without saying that this design: Is derived from this: And not this: How could I have been so blind! The same goes for all of them, feel free to look them up, I quite like the Japanese edition designs even for all their weirdness. TCI license was from Tatsunoko, not Studio Nue. The source is, once again, your own. Which you still refuse to read for some reason, despite citing it. To Serglach:

Spoiler

Since you asked so "nicely". Would you please cite, where I claimed anything of the sort? Because I did not. Usage of footage from SDFMacross in the last Tokyo Skytree event, usage of footage in Macross Delta, usage of footage and still in 歌マクロス, and many more. Whenever SDF Macross is involved, so it Tatsunoko. Tatsunoko owns the original show in Japan, excluding only the specific character/mech designs and sharing the right to make sequels. Tatsunoko's numerous extensions of the license, in spite of Hamony Gold's actions throghout. The last deal was in 2012.

I'd appreciate if you upheld your part of the "I'm not going to talk with you anymore" and let other people form their own opinion from the sources provided. Yours is already set in stone and we've already heard it many times. Mine won't budge, either.

Japanese BT designs are all contracted Shoji Kawamori - Studio Nue originals. They made sure these designs won't conflict any of previous work they have done like on Macross.

[Adridos]

James The Fox Dixon, on 12 June 2018 - 01:41 AM, said:

No, the license was from Nippan Sunrise and Studio Nue. As the copyright notice on the boxes in 1986 say, "Molding by Nitto Originally Dougram™ and Crusher Joe & The Hunters™, licensed by Nippan {sic} Sunrise of Japan, Exclusively manufactured for TCI. Contents & Packaging (C) 1986 by Twentieth Century Imports. BattleTech & Concepts™ 1985 by FASA Corporation. With sincere thanks to Tatsunoko Productions and Nippan Sunrise of Japan."

There you go again. You're quoting packaging for designs from Sunrise's shows and somehow using it as an argument when it comes to designs from Macross (which was not made by Sunrise, that being the whole point of it). [Redacted]

Anjian, on 12 June 2018 - 01:56 AM, said:

Japanese BT designs are all contracted Shoji Kawamori - Studio Nue originals. They made sure these designs won't conflict any of previous work they have done like on Macross.

Of course. But that's Japanese BT designs, not VMI designs.

Edited by draiocht, 18 June 2018 - 11:25 AM.
unconstructive