1809 replies to this topic

[Adridos]

Chados, on 30 June 2018 - 02:51 AM, said:

I suspect that HG was concerned enough about the possibility of a jury either not understanding the technicalities of their argument and ruling for PGI...costing them everything...or that they potentially wouldn’t be able to prove PGI wrong at trial (as plaintiff, they had the burden of proof), potentially costing them everything, thus giving PGI the license they’ve been asking for since the year dot was the easiest way out that protected what they have. Refusing PGI the license in the first place was just a supremely stupid business move on their part, in my view.

Wouldn't there be a new copyright mark in the game since the last patch if they settled for handing out a new license?
Plus, HG didn't deny them the license out of spite, they simply said the license was already being used by someone else (Palladium games). It is true, though, that the licensed game only existed because of the BT people throwing money at it to get third party minis and that HG refused to prolong the license any longer.

Edited by Adridos, 30 June 2018 - 03:49 AM.

[Alan Davion]

Adridos, on 30 June 2018 - 03:44 AM, said:

Wouldn't there be a new copyright mark in the game since the last patch if they settled for handing out a new license?
Plus, HG didn't deny them the license out of spite, they simply said the license was already being used by someone else (Palladium games). It is true, though, that the licensed game only existed because of the BT people throwing money at it to get third party minis and that HG refused to prolong the license any longer.

Actually I believe the more commonly held theory for HG yanking Palladium's license was because of how absolutely atrociously Palladium handled the kickstarter.

In all seriousness, they out and out lied to more than five thousand people for over four bloody years, making it clearer and clearer that they spent the vast majority of the money they made on over-producing the core game and first group of expansions, which were just the same pieces in the core game, and were left with not nearly enough money to produce all the rest of the pieces, if there was any money left at all.

Which a lot of people will tell you had been Palladium's MO for years. They ended up generating such a backlog of books for their other myriad game series, that they wouldn't be able to produce one until they'd sucked up all the pre-order money for the next one.

They banked on the game selling like hot cakes so they could rake in enough money for the second wave of miniatures. Problem is it sold like hot **** and they went into panic mode, stringing us along for years until somehow the whole brouhaha got back to HG and they apparently weren't very happy with Palladium. Who can blame them with a pathetic egomaniac like Kevin Siembada at the helm of that wretched company.

[C E Dwyer]

Juodas Varnas, on 30 June 2018 - 03:26 AM, said:

Am i the only one who got a ****-eating grin when seeing the image of this marauder with the announcement?

Felt a bit like a bitchslap towards HG

I will only start smiling and celebrating when P.G.I finish making the rest of Unseen, and they show up in H.B.S's project. until then it's still effectively an H.G victory, because win lose or draw, if they don't arrive, it's all been for nothing.

should it happen I shall be dancing, until then, it has no material value.

[darqsyde]

Assuming it was a "victory" by PGI, I would expect the following:

First: HBS adding the Alpha Lance + PXH into Battletech, no later than Mechcon.
Second: Slow roll out of otherwise Unseen mechs via CGL artwork.
Third: Announcement at Mechcon of upcoming sale of one or more of the remaining classic Unseen for MWO, and footage of Unseen in MW5.

Given that there is a lead time of 6+ months to produce new mechs, this is the most probable timeline.

So, in other words, we shouldn't expect any clear indicators before Mechcon. I hope the settlement does indeed cover the entirety of the Macross-derived mechs, but I also am not holding my breathe for any other Unseen to be released. While the lawsuit has been dismissed, it only covered the Alpha Lance and PXH, so it is entirely possible that any settlement only covers those designs.

[Shadowomega1]

darqsyde, on 30 June 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

Assuming it was a "victory" by PGI, I would expect the following:

First: HBS adding the Alpha Lance + PXH into Battletech, no later than Mechcon.
Second: Slow roll out of otherwise Unseen mechs via CGL artwork.
Third: Announcement at Mechcon of upcoming sale of one or more of the remaining classic Unseen for MWO, and footage of Unseen in MW5.

Given that there is a lead time of 6+ months to produce new mechs, this is the most probable timeline.

So, in other words, we shouldn't expect any clear indicators before Mechcon. I hope the settlement does indeed cover the entirety of the Macross-derived mechs, but I also am not holding my breathe for any other Unseen to be released. While the lawsuit has been dismissed, it only covered the Alpha Lance and PXH, so it is entirely possible that any settlement only covers those designs.

Well as their using PGI's models it won't take long to put them in, not to mention the Marauder was already in the early alpha work. As well as player mods that add in models of unseen, reseen/nuseen. So I would say less then 3 months.

Edited by Shadowomega1, 30 June 2018 - 11:23 AM.

[DFM]

Chados, on 30 June 2018 - 02:51 AM, said:

They’ve advised the Copyright Office that their copyrights aren’t in question because of this lawsuit, that’s how I take it.

My experience in litigation tells me that there has got to be some form of limited license HG has granted PGI for the Macross-derived Unseen/Reseen already in game. I speculate that part of the settlement has some sort of mechanism to prevent future PGI/InMediaRes challenge of HG’s ownership of the Unseen in return for getting off PGI’s and InMediaRes’s collective backs. I suspect that HG was concerned enough about the possibility of a jury either not understanding the technicalities of their argument and ruling for PGI...costing them everything...or that they potentially wouldn’t be able to prove PGI wrong at trial (as plaintiff, they had the burden of proof), potentially costing them everything, thus giving PGI the license they’ve been asking for since the year dot was the easiest way out that protected what they have. Refusing PGI the license in the first place was just a supremely stupid business move on their part, in my view. And for PGI, all they wanted was the license for the Marauder, Rifleman, Archer, Warhammer, and Phoenix Hawk-the highest profile and most universally beloved of the classic Unseen. They got it-we know they got it, because the Alpha Lance and PXH are still in MWO, we just don’t know whether the license encompasses MW5-so their main litigation objective (protection of the existing product) was satisfied.

We will be able to retrospectively determine the contours of PGI’s license in the future. Time will tell. If we see mechs like the Wasp, Stinger, Crusader, or Longbow announced in future mechpacks for MWO, or we suddenly see Marauders in new CGL published TROs, or we suddenly see a Rifleman in MW5 promos, or we start seeing new variants of the Alpha Lance mechs released, all that will tell us something. And the absence of all these things, along with PGI staff ignoring the proliferation of threads demanding new Unseen be released in MWO, will tell us other things.

Not a Lawyer, but to me it seems as if it's a modification of their existing copyright claims. Adding in things like additional dialogue, japanese language additions to copywright(not just english versions) for animations, stuff like that.

[Adridos]

DFM, on 30 June 2018 - 05:18 PM, said:

Not a Lawyer, but to me it seems as if it's a modification of their existing copyright claims. Adding in things like additional dialogue, japanese language additions to copywright(not just english versions) for animations, stuff like that.

Not really. The form clearly says "No change" and the added documents are all scanned copies of the stuff written back in the 80s without any new text written over it.

[DFM]

Adridos, on 01 July 2018 - 04:07 AM, said:

Not really. The form clearly says "No change" and the added documents are all scanned copies of the stuff written back in the 80s without any new text written over it.

Yup. My bad, I missed that.

After re-reading it again, it's a letter that they have to send to the copywright office at varying times because of a action taken on copyrights they had(or didn't). First when they sued in march 2017, then just now after the matter was closed.

Nothing more, nothing less.

[PheonixStorm]

Chados, on 30 June 2018 - 02:51 AM, said:

If we see mechs like the Wasp, Stinger, Crusader, or Longbow announced in future mechpacks for MWO, or we suddenly see Marauders in new CGL published TROs, or we suddenly see a Rifleman in MW5 promos, or we start seeing new variants of the Alpha Lance mechs released, all that will tell us something. And the absence of all these things, along with PGI staff ignoring the proliferation of threads demanding new Unseen be released in MWO, will tell us other things.

A few things for those that don't follow the BattleTech forums. The Marauder and other art for the TT is still good. TRO Succession Wars might get a revision to add the existing art for the classics. "We’re looking at options" was the official response when asked. When asked about seeing the Marauder as a mini the official response was "Probably. Don’t see why not." When I asked about the Crusader getting new art/mini "If I have my way. But no plans currently."

Considering it is Con season it is a given that nothing will be happening anytime soon. At least not for CGL. This also shows that the settlement was a win for BattleTech as if HG went to the table from position of strength I see no reason they would have included CGL in the dismissal. Remember, CGL was in default and had set itself up as a future piggy bank so HG had no reason to let CGL off the hook.

[Thorqemada]

So, i had and have my head in other games and MWO is way on the backseat but found this Video recently and it seems that PGI got something i call a defensive win over HG and got an eternal peace treaty between them out of that case - i call that a win!

Now, where are the "Victory Mech Pack" releases?

PS:

Edited by Thorqemada, 06 July 2018 - 01:31 AM.

[The Lighthouse]

From what Tina said on other thread, it will be several months whether we will get Classic mechs or not.

Catalyst Labs said because of timing, they really have no plans til next year, for example.

[Anjian]

Seems that HG isn't going to be made to pay the costs of PGI's lawyers. That's going to necessitate some means to pay back those legal fees. It will make sense to have a 'Victory' pack, with Wasp, Crusader, Rifleman IIC, the Ost mechs etc,.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Anjian, on 06 July 2018 - 02:01 AM, said:

Seems that HG isn't going to be made to pay the costs of PGI's lawyers. That's going to necessitate some means to pay back those legal fees. It will make sense to have a 'Victory' pack, with Wasp, Crusader, Rifleman IIC, the Ost mechs etc,.

I don't think many of us here would complain if they did a lawsuit victory four pack. Either a mix of Warhammer IIC/Rifleman IIC and Longbow/Crusader as a four pack, or something to divide up the remaining months leading into 2019 after the remaining mechs are announced that they already had planned. If indeed the mechs in limbo are off the hook and they are going to continue their line up, there are many ways I'm sure the playerbase would throw their money at PGI even if they divided the nuseen mechs into single stand alone packs.

Someone should PM Tina and ask her how many mechs that they had pre-planned leading up to the resolution of the lawsuit. That should give us a general idea on how long we have to wait without her getting into any sort of trouble I hope.

[darqsyde]

With a probable 6+month lead time for MWO mech development, I don't expect any definitive answers before Mechcon. That would give time to prep concept art, and maybe have one or two pre-production models ready.

Remember, if this is a win(regarding the remaining Unseen), then PGI, HBS and CGL will want to do it up big, and the best place and time to do that is Mechcon.

HBS probably has some flexibility with regard to the Alpha Lance + PXH so we might see something from them before Mechcon, but I'd bet they will bundle the announcement of "3039" and the Unseen, so....Mechcon.
Also, because of the separate settlement, HBS may be fettered to a greater degree than PGI & CGL.

CGL is also constrained by the lead time required for commissioning and approval of new art, in addition to publishing lead times, never mind the translation into minis. Once again, Mechcon gives them lots of time to line up all their ducks.

Edited by darqsyde, 08 July 2018 - 07:06 PM.

[Thorn Hallis]

I doubt new 'Mechpacks are on a tight scedule, since Civil War they look like one week products.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Thorqemada, on 06 July 2018 - 01:30 AM, said:

So, i had and have my head in other games and MWO is way on the backseat but found this Video recently and it seems that PGI got something i call a defensive win over HG and got an eternal peace treaty between them out of that case - i call that a win!

Now, where are the "Victory Mech Pack" releases?

PS:

oh hey look, it's me.

[Thorqemada]

Well, it seems they dish out an Alpha Strike...
https://mwomercs.com...n-classic-mechs

[darqsyde]

Once you see these Deals they can't be UNSEEN



That is the bit which stokes the flame of hope!

Edited by darqsyde, 12 July 2018 - 10:51 AM.

[Marauder3D]

As one of the faithful, hope springs eternal.

I'm pretty sure a well done Crusader, and a big "we vanquished our foes" celebration pack would be like a printing press for money for PGI. Then they can make licensing money giving it to HBS.

To not do that, well, that would be a strong indicator to me that they can't do that or won't do that.

[Horseman]

Marauder3D, on 12 July 2018 - 11:29 AM, said:

To not do that, well, that would be a strong indicator to me that they can't do that or won't do that.

Keep in mind they mentioned there's a several month lead time on any mech development before it's even announced.