97 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 25 July 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

54kph, here is the build I've been using a bit: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bf525c125e9e561

Yeah that's what I arrived at with slightly different armor allocation. 54 goes to 58 with speed tweak.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 25 July 2017 - 10:51 AM, said:

54 goes to 58 with speed tweak.

Weirdo, I still can't justify going down the mobility tree for any assault.

[Gas Guzzler]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 25 July 2017 - 10:53 AM, said:

Weirdo, I still can't justify going down the mobility tree for any assault.

I know... I just can't let go of those extra kph.

[panzer1b]

I dont own either, but here is what ive experienced based on shooting em both many many times.

The anni is prolly the scariest thing in the game to get shot by without access to cover, as basically all of the builds either have alot of rapid fire PPFLD (its like 30 every 1.5s with the 6 ac5s) or throw so much damage downstream (with uacs) that it doesnt matter how spread out it gets you are gonna have something opened up/destroyed with one good double tapped burst). Ofc, it doesnt stand a chance in the mid range poke game so you can easily defeat it by doing a rapid poke with either gauss or energy weapons (or even pinpoint ACs like the 10) since its so massive you arent gonna have any trouble isolating a ST hitbox. If the anni isnt shielding at all and isnt shooting at me, i can hit the CT fairly reliably, but if he is shielding i just pick a ST and shoot that ST constantly since i know that shooting it will cut its firepower in half on most builds and half a annihilator isnt anywhere near as scary as a whole one. Its not a mech id ever pilot (cant stand anything that goes below 64.8 without speed tweak), but i defenetely see that it has good hitboxes, alot of armor quirks, and its prolly one of few mechs that can 1v2 and still win through sheer DPS and tanking ability. Pretty much need coordination or you need to abuse its sluggish mobility to outmaneuver the thing.

The madcat2 is a bit of a mixed bag. On one hand it can carry some nasty loadouts (most of the really scary ones are gauss+lasers) and is actually really good at shielding and spreading damage around if twisting, but it has relatively easy to isolate hitboxes (especially if you bring ST missile pods), and the vast majority of its offensive capabilities is stored in the arm mounts which makes neutering one not as hard as one would expect if you resist the urge to fire at the center of mass and actually think about where you are shooting the thing. If the madcat doesnt shield very well, its fairly simple to core out (just like the timby), but if he is shielding correctly and abusing the arms as shields, ill focus the arms to take away his gauss rifles (and some lasers if its the paywalled hero that can do utterly stupid alfa strikes) to lower the things firepower to at most 2 ERLL and 2 ERML which isnt all that much if you think about it. My HBR or EBJ can easily 1 shot the arms with a little bit of luck since 64-66 alfa strike is enough to strip all the armor, and almost always the gauss rifle explodes when whats left of the damage leaks through to the internals.

That said, the MC2 really doesnt have much going for it besides the obvious gauss vomit build since the mad2c has better hitboxes imo and other mechs like teh SNV can carry even more firepower at the obvious cost of speed. You can also do laser vomit on the thing but my experience hasnt been that great with laser vomit on assault mechs since the only thing they really get over heavies is more DPS and minor armor increase (8 hardpoints on the MC2 is gonna get you at best 66 alfa strike with LPLs and ERMLs, or 78 with HLLs and ERMLs albeit with massive heat issues and lousy range on latter). My HBR or EBJ can do 64 or 66 alfa strike respectively, fire it twice on all but hot maps, and are far better at relocating when running hot then any assault can get. Yeah i have less sustained DPS out of them, but i have almost or exactly as much alfa strike, i can even afford to trade against many assaults, i can pull off an attack faster due to better agility, and im less likely to be pinned down or anticipated when i keep mobile. The MC2 is a good mech and ill defetenely give it a try when they come out for CB, but i just dont see it being all that strong compared to the competition at anything but the aformenetioned gauss vomit builds that are capable of dire wolf alfa strikes without the insane mobility issues or trash hitboxes or everyone focus this for free XP and CB syndrome the dire gets.

Actually, i think the dire is one of those mechs that has truly fallen out of viability, its insanely slow, its got terrible low mounts, its got some of the worst hitboxes in teh game, 60deg torso turn, no agility, and all it can do it boat lots of weapons which dont even work well if you cant get em on target before you die. Hell, even the kodiak3 has fallen out of favor with teh agility nerfs which made it nolonger able to absorb any real damage (lack of quirks and huge barn door sized torsos) and the nerfs to uac 10s especially finished it off. Only really strong clan assaults imo right now are the SNV (if you are ok with bad speed), MAD2C (lots of viable builds on that and its just about agile/mobile enough to actually brawl with decentish hitboxes ontop), and the newly made MC2 which is a decent generalist with the gauss vomit builds and a few other niche things like ATM-48 boats of doom. I think some of the oldies need buffs to compete with the useable newer assaults.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

panzer1b, on 25 July 2017 - 11:31 AM, said:

its got some of the worst hitboxes in teh game

I can almost single out people who don't know how to play the Dire by this statement. The Whale is currently better at spreading damage than the Atlas or Kodiak (honestly it could always spread across the torsos fairly well, and it still isn't a King Crab). If you have trouble spreading damage in it then you just need to learn how to spread damage in it.

panzer1b, on 25 July 2017 - 11:31 AM, said:

Only really strong clan assaults imo right now are the SNV (if you are ok with bad speed), MAD2C (lots of viable builds on that and its just about agile/mobile enough to actually brawl with decentish hitboxes ontop), and the newly made MC2

You are missing the Warhawk which can spam 4 cERPPCs like no other mech and is actually meta, potentially more meta than the SNV or MAD-IIC. That's 4 meta assaults.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 25 July 2017 - 11:52 AM.

[Sjorpha]

I haven't played either of them enough to really judge yet, I just know that both of them are incredibly fun mechs to play.

Deathstrike is very very strong, that much I can say. So I've went for the UAC10s + 6ERMED and a 375 engine to be fast and nimble and take advantage of that nice jam chance quirk, and it's amazing. I suppose the gaussvomit metabuilds are even better.

[Stonefalcon]

The annihilator has one weakness I've found after running nothing but it this last week, pesky lights. It is however a hard counter against the mad cat mk2 and pretty much any mech that tries to play with it face to face. Haven't lost a single fight with any mad cat mk2.

[Antares102]

MCII and especially Deathstrike sucks balls. I only have a KD of 25 over 15 games now in QP.

Could need some structure quirks IMO.

If you find sarcasm you can keep it.

Edited by Antares102, 25 July 2017 - 12:35 PM.

[panzer1b]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 25 July 2017 - 11:48 AM, said:

I can almost single out people who don't know how to play the Dire by this statement. The Whale is currently better at spreading damage than the Atlas or Kodiak (honestly it could always spread across the torsos fairly well, and it still isn't a King Crab). If you have trouble spreading damage in it then you just need to learn how to spread damage in it.


You are missing the Warhawk which can spam 4 cERPPCs like no other mech and is actually meta, potentially more meta than the SNV or MAD-IIC. That's 4 meta assaults.

I do not play dires (i cant stand anything that wont go 64.8 before speed tweak). When i said its easy to isolate hitboxes its from my personal experience shooting em. Its almost impossible for the dire wolf to completely cover its side torso hitboxes, and if he isnt wobbling around at all i just focus the CT and poof. Its hitboxes might work against less experienced people (and im by no means any sort of pro in this game but in not potato level), but i have no problems isolating what i want to hit on a dire (and i almost exclusively go for STs since they are huge).

And yeah, i did forget the warhawk that has that one ultra-niche build with 4 ERPPCs, but its also got the issue of dire style hitboxes, and the fact that loosing a ST with most loadouts is game over, you either loose most of your heat management if the heatsink side dies, or you loose most of your weapons if the other side gets shot. Not a terrible mech by any means, but i cant call it competitive at anything but that super niche ERPPC boat (decent loadout but not as scary as 70+ alfa strike mechs imo).

[Humpday]

Antares102, on 25 July 2017 - 12:34 PM, said:

MCII and especially Deathstrike sucks balls. I only have a KD of 25 over 15 games now in QP.

Could need some structure quirks IMO.

If you find sarcasm you can keep it.

holy moly...that is all

EDIT: whats that mounting?

Edited by Humpday, 25 July 2017 - 12:51 PM.

[Antares102]

Humpday, on 25 July 2017 - 12:50 PM, said:

holy moly...that is all

EDIT: whats that mounting?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6f30e8bf4b4d49f
82 Alpha which you can do 2 times in a row, three times with coolshot.
If you are hot continue to dakka. Your UAC10 wont jam a lot due to the quirk.

[Humpday]

Antares102, on 25 July 2017 - 01:03 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6f30e8bf4b4d49f
82 Alpha which you can do 2 times in a row, three times with coolshot.
If you are hot continue to dakka. Your UAC10 wont jam a lot due to the quirk.

Oh thats similar to mine(the MKII-1), just with more energy.

I run dual uac10s, 2 med pulse, and 2 heavy meds.

Nice!

I'm enjoying it, seriously considering the hero and reenforments

[Antares102]

Humpday, on 25 July 2017 - 01:07 PM, said:

Oh thats similar to mine(the MKII-1), just with more energy.

I run dual uac10s, 2 med pulse, and 2 heavy meds.

Nice!

Well the MPL are important to keep the face time as low as possible and twist after shooting.
HML have too much duration for that.
I have absorbed so much damage with my arms without losing them by left/right twisting alternatively.
With at least 5x twist skill MCII twists really well.

Edited by Antares102, 25 July 2017 - 01:11 PM.

[Humpday]

grrrr resisting temptation to spend $15 more dollars to gain 2 more energy hardpoints

[Antares102]

Humpday, on 25 July 2017 - 01:17 PM, said:

grrrr resisting temptation to spend $15 more dollars to gain 2 more energy hardpoints

And dont forget about the 20% UAC jam chance reduction quirk which actually makes UAC much more worthwhile.

Edited by Antares102, 25 July 2017 - 01:19 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

panzer1b, on 25 July 2017 - 12:34 PM, said:

And yeah, i did forget the warhawk that has that one ultra-niche build with 4 ERPPCs, but its also got the issue of dire style hitboxes, and the fact that loosing a ST with most loadouts is game over, you either loose most of your heat management if the heatsink side dies, or you loose most of your weapons if the other side gets shot. Not a terrible mech by any means, but i cant call it competitive at anything but that super niche ERPPC boat (decent loadout but not as scary as 70+ alfa strike mechs imo).

4 cERPPCs is not any more niche than a laser vomit build.....especially when it has a 13% heat gen quirk that allows it to do work at long range. Both sides are heat sink sides on that build as it is symmetrical so losing one side over the other is a non-issue. I'm not quite sure why you seem to think the Warhawk is that bad.

panzer1b, on 25 July 2017 - 12:34 PM, said:

I do not play dires (i cant stand anything that wont go 64.8 before speed tweak). When i said its easy to isolate hitboxes its from my personal experience shooting em. Its almost impossible for the dire wolf to completely cover its side torso hitboxes, and if he isnt wobbling around at all i just focus the CT and poof. Its hitboxes might work against less experienced people (and im by no means any sort of pro in this game but in not potato level), but i have no problems isolating what i want to hit on a dire (and i almost exclusively go for STs since they are huge).

Either my teammates within SJR are potatoes (always a good chance) or you have just never faced a good enough pilot (which is fairly likely given how many people complain about how horrible the Whale is).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 25 July 2017 - 01:27 PM.

[Antares102]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 25 July 2017 - 01:23 PM, said:

Either my teammates within SJR are potatoes (always a good chance) or you have just never faced a good enough pilot.

Oh, dis gunna bi gud.
*grabs popcorn - waiting for panzer1b to respond*

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Warning long writeup about the Annihilator ahead (it's an interesting and unique mech, maybe the most unique in years, so deserving of more wordage than most nowdays, in my book).

Annihilator in quick play is like an LRM boat - either feast or famine, determined largely by factors outside your control (map selection and support, or lack thereof, of your teammates).

Positioning: I've held down a corner and stopped an entire push of 6 mechs with the thing. No other mech has ever been able to do that in the game besides Dire Wolf when it first came out. I've also positioned myself in the slightly wrong locations and been largely ineffective and gotten a side torso repeatedly poked to death. Sometimes it's a matter of mere meters, and you're too slow to test out multiple ideal spots like you can even in slightly faster assaults.

Teammates: Because of its phenomenal armor and potential firepower, I suspect the Annihilator is overpowered in group que and faction wars, but underpowered in solo/quick play, which all comes down to how much it depends on good support to shine. It's easy to find yourself left behind, alone or abandoned by teammates, or allies who turtle and fail to press a golden opportunity to attack a distracted enemy while you tank half the team for them.

Mounts: The thing is decent at hill peaking with its torso guns, but its arms just hit dirt unless you fully expose yourself. Oh, and if you hate allies getting in your line of fire, don't play the Annihilator. It's the worst mech in the game for this problem. Low mounts so you can't shoot over allies. Slow speed and acceleration so you can't reposition easily. It's quite annoying to set up an overwatch position with a great field of fire and wait there patiently for a minute or two only to have a teammate park right in front of you just as the enemy appears. So very annoying.

Hitboxes: I don't think they're as great as some here do. I wonder if people are confusing the amazing armor quirks with good hit boxes. It's pretty easy to isolate and focus on a side torso when you're fighting an Annihilator. And compared to the Atlas, the Annhilator's arms are pretty bad for shielding damage. Yes, the CT box is quite small, but if you've lost one or both side torsos, your effectiveness drops exponentially in this thing because the lack of speed stops you from hunting down other wounded mechs in the late game.

The Annihilator as the "be all, end all" I.S. Assault - I don't think so. It makes an incredible suppressive fire platform, corner holder, and stationary long range overwatch platform. All with ballistics as the main weapons.

But it's bad at pushing unless well supported. Short range loadouts are a real gamble because of the inability to close to brawling range on your terms. It struggles with faster mechs getting behind it (surprisingly, I haven't had much trouble with lights yet, who seem genuinely afraid to engage with it, but that seems to be more good fortune than anything). A NARCer light could ruin your day instantly on several maps.

It's an absolutely terrible energy boat because of the max 300 engine, which caps the number of engine heatsinks you can hold to only two. And most of the variants lack energy mounts in the crucial high torso positions. The Annihilator 1E is dead on arrival.

Don't have the hero but it will obviously be a very gimped SRM platform due to the slow speed, and I'm not sure why it would LURM better than a mech with dedicated quirks. Maybe it can boat MRMs if they ever become good.

Edited by 5th Fedcom Rat, 25 July 2017 - 05:04 PM.