67 replies to this topic

[Zakatak]

Highlander IIC, on 01 August 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

This really isn't true at all. Yes this is how they behave in the games, but in the actual lore they are walking tanks. Here is a snip from Falloutwiki.com Power Armor article:

- 2067: The first suit of T-45d power armor is deployed for combat duty among American infantrymen fighting the Chinese occupation of Alaska. While lacking the full mobility of future versions of the armor, this early suit of power armor is incredibly effective against conventional Chinese tanks and infantry. Its ability to allow a single infantryman to carry heavy ordinance becomes key in various localized conflicts during the Sino-American War, and it has the power to destroy entire towns without endangering the wearer from attacks by conventional firearms or even missile launchers. The Chinese People's Liberation Army rushes to create its own versions, but the Chinese are many years behind the United States' work on the project.

Note that this is the T-45 series, which is obsolete by the outbreak of the Great War. The T-51 series, which would be standard issue for the mechanized units, is superior, especially since it does not hinder the user's maneuverability at all. These units would most likely have largely, if not completely, replaced conventional tanks. Obviously for gameplay reasons they had to be majorly toned down.

I just hate to see it unjustly belittled.

Well, it was specifically stated in canon that the chest plate of the T-51b is capable of absorbing 2500 joules of kinetic energy without being punctured. The 7.62x51 NATO round has a muzzle energy of about 3800 joules, and will reach 2500 joules at around 750m or so. It will protect you from any modern assault rifle or pistol (besides maybe a .500S&W), but anything as big or bigger then a battle rifle and you are punching through flesh. Just because power armor has replaced tanks doesn't necessarily mean it can match a tank, it is just alot more flexible and cheaper to produce.

I dunno. I like the T-51b, but it seems more like MJOLNIR armor without the shields or the ability to run 70kph+.

Edited by Zakatak, 02 August 2012 - 02:58 PM.

[Friend Fox]

Vulpesveritas, on 02 August 2012 - 06:45 AM, said:

Now, while it is armored heavily, there is the point that it has no stealth capabilities or healing capabilities (except for the medical prototypes never deployed.), unlike a Nanosuit. A nanosuit operator is going to largely be taking a stealth approach anyhow, and through usage of anti-tank munitions and cloaking, could readily destroy an enemy group of T-51 equipped soldiers. Furthermore given the healing capabilities of the nanosuit and that they are made to take the same weapon fire as a soldier wearing a T-51 would be wearing, you would largely see the nanosuit users using hit and run tactics to great effect.

The Chinese had their own armor which was the Black Ghost Stealth Armor. Just from my personal experiences, the Nanosuit stealth mode seemed inferior. I was never impressed with the Nanosuit's stealth abilities. At least in the first Crysis (didn't like the sequel enough to purchase) I found it very easy to detect even without looking. Giving off a distinct sound and, to be honest, not stellar visual effects it was often a liability. I learned this quickly when I was counter-ambushed by experienced players. I thought I was doing it wrong, but after playing for some time with the vets of my unit I learned the quite obvious tells of the mode. With viability limited to only select scenarios while hemorrhaging energy (even while motionless), the same energy which powers your shield, strength, and speed, it is largely useless. Now my experiences are limited to earlier versions of the suit, but the energy issue I know has not changed.

Meanwhile in the Fallout universe, American Power Armor equipped soldiers have faced the Chinese stealth soldiers who have at least equal visual concealment with no penalty of energy a completely silent system. These elite soldiers were known for their guerrilla tactics. The T-51 operators will be prepared for hit and run strikes using this technology.

As for healing and anti-tank munitions. Healing doesn't make a difference if the user is already dead does it? Nanosuit operators are not exactly durable. Outside of defense mode they are highly susceptible to conventional small arms fire. When activated defense mode certainly increases survivability, however the user is still vulnerable to 7.62x51mm, 6.8 SCP, 5.45x39mm, and even pistol cartridges. Any advantage they use will drain their energy as well, further weakening defense mode if reengaged without regeneration. Sure the suit can heal the user, however even at full health Nanosuit users are relatively fragile, even to medium caliber small arms.

This brings me to my next point: Armaments. As far as I can tell they two have very similar options when it comes to weapons. While I do not think T-51s were intended to carry assault rifles as their primary weapons, they certainly can. Also, even though Nanosuit operators seem more at home with traditional infantry style weapons, they can manage larger weapons such as chain guns. Both have man portable tactical nuke systems (although T-51s have the MIRV, it is experimental and thus not qualified as standard issue), Gauss rifles, etc. The only difference I see is that Nanosuits are slowed down by the weight of these heavier weapons. Hell if I remember correctly you walked slower with a lowly shotgun equipped.

T-51s were not designed for just defensive gain, but as a weapons platform capable of carrying normally unwieldy weapons systems through enhanced strength. Nanosuits may be able to field the same weaponry, but in exchange for a solid hit to their speed. With this it would be much more difficult to conduct hit and run missions unless the heavy weapons are abandoned or stashed after the initial strike. In a toe to tow fight. T-51s have the advantage in armor, and now in movement as they are unhindered by the large weapons they were designed to wield. Nano suits could still use speed mode for a short burst, but this again brings up the problem of energy making them vulnerable defensively.

Zakatak, on 02 August 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

Well, it was specifically stated in canon that the chest plate of the T-51b is capable of absorbing 2500 joules of kinetic energy without being punctured. The 7.62x51 NATO round has a muzzle energy of about 3800 joules, and will reach 2500 joules at around 750m or so. It will protect you from any modern assault rifle or pistol (besides maybe a .500S&W), but anything as big or bigger then a battle rifle and you are punching through flesh. Just because power armor has replaced tanks doesn't necessarily mean it can match a tank, it is just alot more flexible and cheaper to produce.
I dunno. I like the T-51b, but it seems more like MJOLNIR armor without the shields or the ability to run 70kph+.

Now for this can of worms (not your post, the data provided by the wiki). It does indeed state 2500 joules which is the one piece of information which does not fit. The exact wording is “over 2500” but even so I find it odd that they would undercut the maximum value by so much. I saw this as well when I did my initial sanity check on my post, and it caused me to do some research as well. Of course assuming 2500 is the exact amount the plating is capable of absorbing, no the armor could not stop anything stronger than the standard load powder and slug weight of the 7.62x51mm round.
However, I believe this would assume a perfectly perpendicular impact. Of course like any good mechanized armor, the vast majority of the surfaces are curved to prevent this. If the impact is glancing, the armor will survive a 7.62 round and above, depending of course on the angle of impact. This still does not match the statement of defeating all small arms fire and even anti-tank munitions.
After looking into the source of the 2500 joules claim, I found that it came from the Fallout 1 item description. This may explain the vague description of the armor's capability as the description may have come from post war testing where resources were limited. Or it could be an easy catch-all way of describing the armor. Or it could have no grounding to real world physics and just used because it sounds cool. Honestly, I don't know. I choose to believe the lore over in game content, so I will maintain my stance. The armor was supposed to be revolutionary, and I do not believe that such a game changed would fail to stop common battle rifle rounds. The topic is debatable, but that is my view.

I am having a hard time finding the actual capabilities of Spartan-IIs and MJOLNIR. The only experience I have this them is in game as I have not read any of the books. Obviously they are toned down in game as I know in the lore the armor would shatter the arm of an unmodified human if used, but in game fails to kill a grunt if punched in the face. Because of this I do not feel I have the knowledge to judge the system compared to T-51s, however I am reasonably sure it it would be much more even than T-51 vs Nanosuit.

I don't mean to hate on the Nanosuit, but I do not think they even belong on this list. Everything on here is mechanized infantry. Nanosuit operators are Delta Force (Crysis 1) or other special operations forces. In other words highly specialized infantry. They are exceedingly effective against traditional infantry and light armored resistance, but not suited for front line slug fests. It is not what special forces do.
If we had a "Best Deniable Ops Soldiers" or similar thread I think they would be more at home and likely top contenders.

And to all of you not involved in this tangent conversation, thanks for the patience

[Wraith 1]

This is a Mechwarrior forum. I am almost amused that Elementals are not in first place.

[Vulpesveritas]

Highlander IIC, on 02 August 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

The Chinese had their own armor which was the Black Ghost Stealth Armor. Just from my personal experiences, the Nanosuit stealth mode seemed inferior. I was never impressed with the Nanosuit's stealth abilities. At least in the first Crysis (didn't like the sequel enough to purchase) I found it very easy to detect even without looking. Giving off a distinct sound and, to be honest, not stellar visual effects it was often a liability. I learned this quickly when I was counter-ambushed by experienced players. I thought I was doing it wrong, but after playing for some time with the vets of my unit I learned the quite obvious tells of the mode. With viability limited to only select scenarios while hemorrhaging energy (even while motionless), the same energy which powers your shield, strength, and speed, it is largely useless. Now my experiences are limited to earlier versions of the suit, but the energy issue I know has not changed.

Meanwhile in the Fallout universe, American Power Armor equipped soldiers have faced the Chinese stealth soldiers who have at least equal visual concealment with no penalty of energy a completely silent system. These elite soldiers were known for their guerrilla tactics. The T-51 operators will be prepared for hit and run strikes using this technology.

As for healing and anti-tank munitions. Healing doesn't make a difference if the user is already dead does it? Nanosuit operators are not exactly durable. Outside of defense mode they are highly susceptible to conventional small arms fire. When activated defense mode certainly increases survivability, however the user is still vulnerable to 7.62x51mm, 6.8 SCP, 5.45x39mm, and even pistol cartridges. Any advantage they use will drain their energy as well, further weakening defense mode if reengaged without regeneration. Sure the suit can heal the user, however even at full health Nanosuit users are relatively fragile, even to medium caliber small arms.

This brings me to my next point: Armaments. As far as I can tell they two have very similar options when it comes to weapons. While I do not think T-51s were intended to carry assault rifles as their primary weapons, they certainly can. Also, even though Nanosuit operators seem more at home with traditional infantry style weapons, they can manage larger weapons such as chain guns. Both have man portable tactical nuke systems (although T-51s have the MIRV, it is experimental and thus not qualified as standard issue), Gauss rifles, etc. The only difference I see is that Nanosuits are slowed down by the weight of these heavier weapons. Hell if I remember correctly you walked slower with a lowly shotgun equipped.

T-51s were not designed for just defensive gain, but as a weapons platform capable of carrying normally unwieldy weapons systems through enhanced strength. Nanosuits may be able to field the same weaponry, but in exchange for a solid hit to their speed. With this it would be much more difficult to conduct hit and run missions unless the heavy weapons are abandoned or stashed after the initial strike. In a toe to tow fight. T-51s have the advantage in armor, and now in movement as they are unhindered by the large weapons they were designed to wield. Nano suits could still use speed mode for a short burst, but this again brings up the problem of energy making them vulnerable defensively.


Now for this can of worms (not your post, the data provided by the wiki). It does indeed state 2500 joules which is the one piece of information which does not fit. The exact wording is “over 2500” but even so I find it odd that they would undercut the maximum value by so much. I saw this as well when I did my initial sanity check on my post, and it caused me to do some research as well. Of course assuming 2500 is the exact amount the plating is capable of absorbing, no the armor could not stop anything stronger than the standard load powder and slug weight of the 7.62x51mm round.
However, I believe this would assume a perfectly perpendicular impact. Of course like any good mechanized armor, the vast majority of the surfaces are curved to prevent this. If the impact is glancing, the armor will survive a 7.62 round and above, depending of course on the angle of impact. This still does not match the statement of defeating all small arms fire and even anti-tank munitions.
After looking into the source of the 2500 joules claim, I found that it came from the Fallout 1 item description. This may explain the vague description of the armor's capability as the description may have come from post war testing where resources were limited. Or it could be an easy catch-all way of describing the armor. Or it could have no grounding to real world physics and just used because it sounds cool. Honestly, I don't know. I choose to believe the lore over in game content, so I will maintain my stance. The armor was supposed to be revolutionary, and I do not believe that such a game changed would fail to stop common battle rifle rounds. The topic is debatable, but that is my view.

I am having a hard time finding the actual capabilities of Spartan-IIs and MJOLNIR. The only experience I have this them is in game as I have not read any of the books. Obviously they are toned down in game as I know in the lore the armor would shatter the arm of an unmodified human if used, but in game fails to kill a grunt if punched in the face. Because of this I do not feel I have the knowledge to judge the system compared to T-51s, however I am reasonably sure it it would be much more even than T-51 vs Nanosuit.

I don't mean to hate on the Nanosuit, but I do not think they even belong on this list. Everything on here is mechanized infantry. Nanosuit operators are Delta Force (Crysis 1) or other special operations forces. In other words highly specialized infantry. They are exceedingly effective against traditional infantry and light armored resistance, but not suited for front line slug fests. It is not what special forces do.
If we had a "Best Deniable Ops Soldiers" or similar thread I think they would be more at home and likely top contenders.

And to all of you not involved in this tangent conversation, thanks for the patience

Well, while Nanosuit 1.0 was delta force, Nanosuit 1.5a/b and nanosuit 2.0 a/b are for the US Marines and CryNet CELL forces. With the later versions of the nanosuit, 1.5a/b sacrifices 15% of the energy capacity of the Nanosuit 1.0 for increased armor protection when not in Armor mode, and 2.0 has 15% more energy than the 1.0, with muffled footsteps, no blur from cloaks when not in motion, nearly no energy loss when stationary, and such, though armor protection is only equivalent to the 1.5 models with the 2.0a/b variants. With the nanosuit, the only weapon that is player-useable that will slow you down are the minigun in the first game, and the HMG (heavy machine gun) in the second game. Outside of those non-infantry weapons, they are fully mobile with any other firearm. Also with the Nanosuit 2.0 variants, speed and power modes are both passive and can be used with far smaller power drain, and be used while either armor or cloaking is active. Also strength is increased with the 2.0 versions of the suit, and the 2.0 suit weighs half as much.

furthermore, in cases where the 2.0 variants of the Nanosuit aren't wearing their specialized underarmor, the suit will gradually grow into the soldier, eating away at and replacing organs. Alcatraz in Crysis: Legion states that the nanosuit has eaten his heart and replaced it, along with several other vital organs. This in itself is an advantage - the organs of the soldier are gradually replaced by the armor itself, which is continually regenerating. In theory, this means that over time the user would be completely absorbed by the suit, and be more or less unkillable... in theory. I mean, the 2.0 variants can eat corpses and turn them into energy. You can just stand on a corpse and have a huge energy stockpile for your armor mode, which outside of large caliber weapons such as an AP round from a sniper rifle or an anti-tank weapon, makes you invulnerable to most infantry munitions.

Vs the Chinese stealth armor, which has a more tell-tale glint than the Nanosuit 2.0, and as the nanosuit, does not make it so you're not there. So any vegitation movement will be the same between the two of them.

Lastly, keep in mind the last upside to the nanosuit 2; data; given the armor can hack nearly any electronic device with a radio receiver, gives a live stream of data, has infrared vision integrated, zoom functions, object tracking, and many other systems which give a definite advantage for data collection by the operator.

As for MJOLNIR, I would say it has definite advantages in everything but stealth.

Edited by Vulpesveritas, 03 August 2012 - 03:20 PM.

[Friend Fox]

Vulpesveritas, on 03 August 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

Snip

Fair enough, I admit my info is fairly out of date, but I was fairly certain that Crysis 1 had a weight system on weapons. Maybe we are not talking about the same game mode. The vast majority of my experience was in multiplayer as my unit used it to kill time until MW:LL was publicly available. This, in combination with my assumption that the 2.0 version was not standard issue, is why most of my comparisons are to the original Crysis/wars (especially multiplayer).

The suit eating the operator is not something I was aware of and is very... interesting. From the sound of it, this is not normal as far as military procedures go. I don't know how viable this is for consideration here. From the way you posted it sound like it has never happened and thus would by highly unlikely to occur considering the guidelines of the thread. I could be wrong however.

As for utilizing corpses I could imagine this resulting in a quite interesting stalemate as neither side would be able to harm each other if not equipped with heavier weapons. Of course this ability appears to be very situational. Being rooted in place on top of a corpse, this tactic seems like backing oneself into a corner. I suppose they could carry the body with them, but this would be awkward and surely harm performance. Finally, I am guessing the corpses are not an infinite source of energy and actions would have to be taken to prevent the operator being caught out of position when the stockpile of energy is exhausted. The T-51s would have time on their side.

Bottom line is, T-51s still cannot be defeated by conventional weaponry and offer more consistent performance without the need to manage energy. This is the most prominent reason I believe the 51 has the advantage. Fallout power armors are hard targets. Nanosuits can jump the fence between hard and soft, but seem to be soft a majority of the time.

On a final note, when I said Delta Force I was referring to Crysis 1. Now in Crysis 2 with USMC, CELL, and Delta Force operators using nanosuits, things are a little messier. Out of curiosity, what will we consider the standard? The 2.0 version is not mass produced according to the wiki with only two know users. Would take make the 1.5 series standard issue?

[Vulpesveritas]

Highlander IIC, on 03 August 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

Fair enough, I admit my info is fairly out of date, but I was fairly certain that Crysis 1 had a weight system on weapons. Maybe we are not talking about the same game mode. The vast majority of my experience was in multiplayer as my unit used it to kill time until MW:LL was publicly available. This, in combination with my assumption that the 2.0 version was not standard issue, is why most of my comparisons are to the original Crysis/wars (especially multiplayer).

The suit eating the operator is not something I was aware of and is very... interesting. From the sound of it, this is not normal as far as military procedures go. I don't know how viable this is for consideration here. From the way you posted it sound like it has never happened and thus would by highly unlikely to occur considering the guidelines of the thread. I could be wrong however.

As for utilizing corpses I could imagine this resulting in a quite interesting stalemate as neither side would be able to harm each other if not equipped with heavier weapons. Of course this ability appears to be very situational. Being rooted in place on top of a corpse, this tactic seems like backing oneself into a corner. I suppose they could carry the body with them, but this would be awkward and surely harm performance. Finally, I am guessing the corpses are not an infinite source of energy and actions would have to be taken to prevent the operator being caught out of position when the stockpile of energy is exhausted. The T-51s would have time on their side.

Bottom line is, T-51s still cannot be defeated by conventional weaponry and offer more consistent performance without the need to manage energy. This is the most prominent reason I believe the 51 has the advantage. Fallout power armors are hard targets. Nanosuits can jump the fence between hard and soft, but seem to be soft a majority of the time.

On a final note, when I said Delta Force I was referring to Crysis 1. Now in Crysis 2 with USMC, CELL, and Delta Force operators using nanosuits, things are a little messier. Out of curiosity, what will we consider the standard? The 2.0 version is not mass produced according to the wiki with only two know users. Would take make the 1.5 series standard issue?

The 2.0a/b variants are the mass produced models of the core 2.0, the 1.5 series were prototypes that are in canon but never actually implemented.
For the "eating the operator" Alcatraz, the protagonist of Crysis 2, is the only one at the time of Crysis 2 to have such happen to him. Of course, he was only the second wearer of the Nanosuit 2 after Prophet, who had one of the underlying armor sets. Pretty much it would start happening to any soldier who didn't wear said under armor suit and was / got wounded in any way, at least by how the in game description of what was going on, as well as the novel, described it. Before it begins to eat the operator it first starts "growing" into wounds.

And corpses are just one source of fuel for the Nanosuit 2. It can convert water, hydrocarbons, and many other sources. Given that the nanosuit is self-repairing, and the T-51 is a steel suit which would get bits shaved off over time and the head is still a weak spot, eh with that stalemate the nanosuit operator would have the nature of the suits themselves to his advantage.

As far as actual protection goes, the Nanosuit 2 and it's variants do implement liquid armor underneath the nanoweave, and is good against more or less any non-armor piercing munitions, and that the ammo of choice for the operators are a 4mm armor piercing tungsten sabot rounds chambered for 6.8SPC... meaning it's made to defeat armor specifically, hence why the assault rifles penetrate it as well as they do... they're designed to defeat body armor, unlike the prevalence of more standard munitions not designed with armor specifically in mind in the fallout universe, outside of anti-material rifles, which of course are also available to a nanosuit operator.

Edited by Vulpesveritas, 03 August 2012 - 07:30 PM.

[Teljaxx]

I voted:
1. Space Marine
2. Samus/Varia Suit
3. Elemental

I figure the Space Marines win in a group on group scenario due to their training and flexible armory. Jump packs to counter mobile units, Rockets and Lascannons for vehicles, Plasma and Melta guns for heavy armor, and power weapons for close combat. Even the standard bolters and chainswords seem like they would be enough to counter most challengers. They really have no weaknesses that any of the others could exploit in combat, either. Plus, they have seen some **** you would not believe!

I would have voted Samus as the winner, but since you said Varia suit, I was going off of the general level of power she had when she acquired that in Super Metroid. If she had her full gravity suit with all items, she would easily defeat any of the other challengers. I think she could probably take on an entire regiment of mechs and easily destroy all of them single-handedly like this. Her plasma beam alone would make her powerful, but add in the wave beam, ice beam, super missiles, power bombs, space jump, screw attack, and massive amount of energy shielding, and she becomes nigh-unstoppable. The plasma/wave beam combo would allow her to completely ignore the enemy's armor and kill the wearer, plus it could hit multiple targets in a line as well. It also never runs out of ammo or has to recharge. And even if the enemy had some way of countering the beam, her screw attack could probably still damage them, and the space jump allows her to basically fly. Plus, the Gravity suit allows her to survive in lava, so most heat based attacks, like lasers, flamers, and plasma would likely not harm her at all.

I voted Elementals third, because they are basically lesser Space Marines. They have what, compared to a vehicle mounted version, is a small laser, but compared to other power armored foes would likely be quite powerful. And the SRM launcher on their back would pack quite a punch as well, especially in a group fight, since they get more total shots that way. The machine gun really does not seem like it would really be effective against any of the other challengers, though. Even if they took a flamer or micro pulse laser, I doubt it would really be all that effective. The claw and sheer strength of the armor would make them quite dangerous in melee combat, since it is designed to rip off armor from mechs and tanks, but the Space Marines still have them beat in that area.

I do admit I do not know that much about the Crysis Nanosuits, the Terran Power armor, or the Iron man armor outside of the movies, so I was basing my choices around that. But from what I do know, this is how I see them comparing.

I love theoretical, inter-universal battles like this. Its always fun to think about how different sets of rules compare to each other like this, and how different people interpret these rules.

[CCC Dober]

@Elsydeon
I LOL'd hard about the health plan, being interred forever inside a Dreadnought. The 41st millenium is not exactly the healthiest time to live in, even more so when being a Space Marine. To be considered worthy to end up in a Dreadnought is like winning the lottery with real bad odds.

Sure it's a great honor to fight a couple thousand years more inside a Dreadnought, but from what I read, it is a dubious honor. Space Marines give up so much to become the Emperor's Finest already. And when they are deemed worthy enough to become Dreadnoughts (provided they get stabilized before they die), they leave almost everything behind that makes them human. All that's left are their memories and the perks that come with being entombed in a walking tank for all eternity or a second death in combat. In essence, they have more in common with a servitor that enjoys a fully functional brain for a change.

I think the Grey Knights got a better health plan with their Dread Knights that don't require the wearer to end up dying (messily) before considered worthy enough. Maybe that's just me

Edited by CCC Dober, 04 August 2012 - 02:46 AM.

[Friend Fox]

Vulpesveritas, on 03 August 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

The 2.0a/b variants are the mass produced models of the core 2.0, the 1.5 series were prototypes that are in canon but never actually implemented.

Is there any data on these suits? If the N2 suit was never mass produced then what makes 2a and 2b different? I am honestly asking here, as I cannot find anything.

Vulpesveritas, on 03 August 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

For the "eating the operator" Alcatraz, the protagonist of Crysis 2, is the only one at the time of Crysis 2 to have such happen to him. Of course, he was only the second wearer of the Nanosuit 2 after Prophet, who had one of the underlying armor sets. Pretty much it would start happening to any soldier who didn't wear said under armor suit and was / got wounded in any way, at least by how the in game description of what was going on, as well as the novel, described it. Before it begins to eat the operator it first starts "growing" into wounds.

Sure I read up on it and know this. My point is this process probably would not be the standard for soldiers wearing the armor to be in the later stages of internal tissue conversion. Also it would probably be more likely that soldiers would wear the under layers of armor to prevent becoming one with the suit. That is a lot of commitment and I imagine few soldiers would wish to undergo that process, especially ones in the USMC or other non-specialized groups.

Vulpesveritas, on 03 August 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

And corpses are just one source of fuel for the Nanosuit 2. It can convert water, hydrocarbons, and many other sources. Given that the nanosuit is self-repairing, and the T-51 is a steel suit which would get bits shaved off over time and the head is still a weak spot, eh with that stalemate the nanosuit operator would have the nature of the suits themselves to his advantage.

Of course, I'm not suggesting that corpses are their only source of energy. I am saying that after depleting the body the suit would have to go back to it's usual energy sources and thus normal energy regeneration rates. As for self-repair, I have no doubt the suit can rebuild itself. This has always been the staple feature of nanotechnology in science fiction. I do doubt, however, that it will be able to regenerate fast enough to prevent user death or incapacitation when under direct fire. Humans regenerate cells to heal their body normally. That does not mean they have and advantage over armored vehicles which rely on metal for armor. The metal will not regenerate, but it will provide massive superiority in instantaneous damage prevention which is what matters. Obviously the nanosuit allows much faster regeneration and some protection, but it is the same principle.

Vulpesveritas, on 03 August 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

As far as actual protection goes, the Nanosuit 2 and it's variants do implement liquid armor underneath the nanoweave, and is good against more or less any non-armor piercing munitions, and that the ammo of choice for the operators are a 4mm armor piercing tungsten sabot rounds chambered for 6.8SPC... meaning it's made to defeat armor specifically, hence why the assault rifles penetrate it as well as they do... they're designed to defeat body armor, unlike the prevalence of more standard munitions not designed with armor specifically in mind in the fallout universe, outside of anti-material rifles, which of course are also available to a nanosuit operator.

No offense but I simply do not buy this. You are telling me that every single weapon is loaded with armor piercing ammunition? Every single average Korean grunt is loaded with expensive specialty ammo to defeat nanosuit equipped special forces from the get-go? All of the shotguns in the games are all loaded with exotic armor piercing slugs (which we both know they are not as they fire shot)? Hell according to the wiki the Grendel apparently uses hollow-point ammunition! Even with its woefully ineffective terminal ballistics against any type of body armor, it is still an effective cartridge against nanosuits.

Also, specialty ammunition does indeed exists in the Fallout universe. AP and +P are in circulation for a myriad of calibers. Also, energy weapons are so readily available that laser pistols are as much standard issue as traditional firearms and rifles being issued to standard soldiers to complement assault rifles. And of course there are the gatling lasers which power armor is often used with. Not to mention plasma, tesla, and microwave weapons. Being significantly less prominent in the Crysis universe, I do not believe nanosuits would have any significant passive protection against these types of damage.

[Vulpesveritas]

Highlander IIC, on 04 August 2012 - 05:52 PM, said:

Is there any data on these suits? If the N2 suit was never mass produced then what makes 2a and 2b different? I am honestly asking here, as I cannot find anything.




Sure I read up on it and know this. My point is this process probably would not be the standard for soldiers wearing the armor to be in the later stages of internal tissue conversion. Also it would probably be more likely that soldiers would wear the under layers of armor to prevent becoming one with the suit. That is a lot of commitment and I imagine few soldiers would wish to undergo that process, especially ones in the USMC or other non-specialized groups.



Of course, I'm not suggesting that corpses are their only source of energy. I am saying that after depleting the body the suit would have to go back to it's usual energy sources and thus normal energy regeneration rates. As for self-repair, I have no doubt the suit can rebuild itself. This has always been the staple feature of nanotechnology in science fiction. I do doubt, however, that it will be able to regenerate fast enough to prevent user death or incapacitation when under direct fire. Humans regenerate cells to heal their body normally. That does not mean they have and advantage over armored vehicles which rely on metal for armor. The metal will not regenerate, but it will provide massive superiority in instantaneous damage prevention which is what matters. Obviously the nanosuit allows much faster regeneration and some protection, but it is the same principle.



No offense but I simply do not buy this. You are telling me that every single weapon is loaded with armor piercing ammunition? Every single average Korean grunt is loaded with expensive specialty ammo to defeat nanosuit equipped special forces from the get-go? All of the shotguns in the games are all loaded with exotic armor piercing slugs (which we both know they are not as they fire shot)? Hell according to the wiki the Grendel apparently uses hollow-point ammunition! Even with its woefully ineffective terminal ballistics against any type of body armor, it is still an effective cartridge against nanosuits.

Also, specialty ammunition does indeed exists in the Fallout universe. AP and +P are in circulation for a myriad of calibers. Also, energy weapons are so readily available that laser pistols are as much standard issue as traditional firearms and rifles being issued to standard soldiers to complement assault rifles. And of course there are the gatling lasers which power armor is often used with. Not to mention plasma, tesla, and microwave weapons. Being significantly less prominent in the Crysis universe, I do not believe nanosuits would have any significant passive protection against these types of damage.

1. the 2a/b have lower armor protection than the core 2.0 but are otherwise identical in function.

2. no but only Hargrieve and maybe Rasch knew what would happen to someone not wearing the underarmor, Gould didn't know it would happen and he was one of the guys who helped moving it to production and made software for it.

3. True, but keep in mind that how thick is that armor? Even with the contours, it can only take so much punishment. Given what a standard rifle round does to an inch of steel plate, metal shouldn't last long to fully automatic fire. Nor does ceramic plates.

4. The standard ammunition for CELL and USMC forces in the Crysis universe in the Crysis 2 - Crysis 3 era are 4mm tungsten sabot rounds chambered for 6.8 SPC, fired from the assault rifle SCAR or assault carbine SCARAB. That's the standard. Not just something widely available. Also, are the AP / P+ rounds tungsten sabots, FMJ, steel tips, or what? The design determines the penetration capability. The Grendel is using older rounds, and is made to use hydrostatic damage above all else, which shouldn't really do as much to a nanosuit according to it's design but does more damage based on.... because the game designers wanted it to do more apparently. same with the shotgun. Real life != fiction on this one unfortunately. technically the liquid armor mixed inbetween layers of Cryfibril should minimize hydrostatic shock, but obviously this doesn't happen in game... for whatever reason... also given that nanoglass in game can take a gauss round to it but somehow a pistol goes through it on your visor is another question which can only really be answered by; game balance.

[syngyne]

Varia suit, because none of the others curls into a cute little ball.

[Regina Redshift]

All three of my picks have jump jets (or similar). A Battle Armor without jump jets is like a day without sunshine.

[Friend Fox]

Vulpesveritas, on 05 August 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

1. the 2a/b have lower armor protection than the core 2.0 but are otherwise identical in function.

2. no but only Hargrieve and maybe Rasch knew what would happen to someone not wearing the underarmor, Gould didn't know it would happen and he was one of the guys who helped moving it to production and made software for it.

3. True, but keep in mind that how thick is that armor? Even with the contours, it can only take so much punishment. Given what a standard rifle round does to an inch of steel plate, metal shouldn't last long to fully automatic fire. Nor does ceramic plates.

4. The standard ammunition for CELL and USMC forces in the Crysis universe in the Crysis 2 - Crysis 3 era are 4mm tungsten sabot rounds chambered for 6.8 SPC, fired from the assault rifle SCAR or assault carbine SCARAB. That's the standard. Not just something widely available. Also, are the AP / P+ rounds tungsten sabots, FMJ, steel tips, or what? The design determines the penetration capability. The Grendel is using older rounds, and is made to use hydrostatic damage above all else, which shouldn't really do as much to a nanosuit according to it's design but does more damage based on.... because the game designers wanted it to do more apparently. same with the shotgun. Real life != fiction on this one unfortunately. technically the liquid armor mixed inbetween layers of Cryfibril should minimize hydrostatic shock, but obviously this doesn't happen in game... for whatever reason... also given that nanoglass in game can take a gauss round to it but somehow a pistol goes through it on your visor is another question which can only really be answered by; game balance.

1. Ok thanks.

2. So if they knew it would happen it would be more likely to wear the under armor to prevent it.

3. The 51 series armor itself uses a "poly-laminate composite" of unspecified thickness. Operators also wear a layer of under armor to prevent heat damage as well as bolster defensive capabilities. This suit is also largely undescribed. In other words everything is as vague as possible, so I cannot say.

4. What you said here is the problem we face. Crysis gameplay suggests that the armor is so dismal that hollow points pierce it. Fallout gameplay suggests that power armor is equally pathetic, taking damage from HP as well. Obviously the lore says otherwise for both. The fact is that these are games first, story and reality second. There is no scientific way to compare these armors. I don't know how well 6.8 SPC rounds would do against power armor's unnamed material it is composed of. It is a relatively new rounds and thus not in the retro-futuristic world of Fallout. I don't know how well nano based armors would do against microfusion powered laser and plasma weapons. There is no real equivalent in the Crysis universe, and there is no mention of the power output of these weapons.

We are stuck.

[Skadi]

Heavy Bolter > Elemental

[Vashts1985]

the lack of Glitter boy in this thread is disturbing

Edited by Vashts1985, 06 August 2012 - 06:12 PM.

[Vulpesveritas]

Highlander IIC, on 06 August 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

1. Ok thanks.

2. So if they knew it would happen it would be more likely to wear the under armor to prevent it.

3. The 51 series armor itself uses a "poly-laminate composite" of unspecified thickness. Operators also wear a layer of under armor to prevent heat damage as well as bolster defensive capabilities. This suit is also largely undescribed. In other words everything is as vague as possible, so I cannot say.

4. What you said here is the problem we face. Crysis gameplay suggests that the armor is so dismal that hollow points pierce it. Fallout gameplay suggests that power armor is equally pathetic, taking damage from HP as well. Obviously the lore says otherwise for both. The fact is that these are games first, story and reality second. There is no scientific way to compare these armors. I don't know how well 6.8 SPC rounds would do against power armor's unnamed material it is composed of. It is a relatively new rounds and thus not in the retro-futuristic world of Fallout. I don't know how well nano based armors would do against microfusion powered laser and plasma weapons. There is no real equivalent in the Crysis universe, and there is no mention of the power output of these weapons.

We are stuck.

1. No problem.

2. Unless they wanted to be a trans-human nanobot based cyborg yes.

3. Well, we can infer by what is shown in-game as having a thickness below four inches. But yes it is very vague.

4. Well, 6.8 SPC has around 2000-2500j of energy depending on the barrel and load weight. Or to put another way, 60-75% of the energy of a 7.62. Depending on what bit of fallout lore you take, the written or assumed, it either penetrates (4mm tungsten sabot)/damages(HP) [written 2500j bit], or damages(sabot) /fails along with any other small arms. [walking tank assumption]
As for energy weapon damage, there is the alien energy weapons, which include lasers, plasma, and cryo weapons. Which a nanosuit is able to survive damage from.
But no, sadly we don't have any exact scientific way to go through this.

Edited by Vulpesveritas, 07 August 2012 - 11:38 AM.

[redplauge]

Imperial Guard Sentinel... oh wait power armor.
space marines. hands down. also you guys dont seem to remember, all the stuff thats made? its older than an m1 Abrams in BT. the power of the stc. but super strong armor that can take missiles? a rocket assisted round that, depending on type, punch through a tank, blow up a space ork, or headshot an extra dementional being that looks like a giant daemon from D&D?

it depends on the marauder armor. book or movie? (book was bad a--, movie was.. wait they didnt have power armor, looked like a bunch of imperial guard trying to fight 'nids without their tanks) not sure of the nano suit, havnt played crysis. also the varia suit which has some great features... kinda... why does it keep loosing all its ****? i mean it goes through worse and keeps on going, but hit it with a big hammer and it goes back to the default settings. (hey look a stormhammer, i wonder what this would do?)

also theres other power armor... ringo's marauder suit was pretty good (book was "A Hymn Before Battle")
lalonde's sol defense advanced encounter powered armor is also ba. (spinward fringe broadcast, book 6)
yes tau

[Reyge]

Why, it's VOLTRON, of course!!! lol

[Gremlich Johns]

You forgot the power suits from Bubblegum Crisis.

You've got the Space marine armor, no reason to discount BGC

[Sychodemus]

Queadluun Rau