36 replies to this topic

[Spr1ggan]

Reza Malin, on 30 July 2017 - 02:43 AM, said:

Oh look, more anecdotal evidence.

For all i know, you exclusively play FW in a full unit killing pugs.

Yes you have some dull meta humping builds. Congratulations. They aren't hard to come up with, just incredibly boring and predictable.

The thread is called "favourite cougar builds?", not "please tell me about another boring laser vomit which anyone can make in 5 seconds".

I never said my ATM builds are going to be rocking MRBC. Nor topping meta mechs, where you clearly spend a lot of time.

However you come along talking like you are gods gift to cougars, slating everything that isn't yours. Get over yourself.

Then, even worse, the instant cliches appeared, like referencing reddit and linking "relevant" stats. Hence the comments about your annoyingly superior attitude, not because you don't like my builds, that doesn't bother me at all.

I could link my Protector stats, which has a 2.4 KD over a lot of matches. I also pull over a 1000 dmg in it sometimes.

Does that make it a good mech or my builds amazing? No.

MWO has far too many variables that affect match results, for these anecdotal viewpoints to be relevant. That is the point. I offered the guy an option, with my view on the mech. You offered yours. Neither is more worthwhile than the other, that is for the OP to decide.

Thus, we have the essence of a forum! Who knew?

EDIT: Oh seems i lied, my protector has slipped down to 1.95 KD....

"However you come along talking like you are gods gift to cougars, slating everything that isn't yours. Get over yourself." Laughable, the 1 heavy large laser + 6 ermeds is Gas Guzzler's build. So i guess i must be slating it by promoting it? Nice logic.

The vast majority of your post is based on things that have only happened in your head. I didn't say anywhere that this was an MRBC mech nor do i play FW. The only reason i even replied to you in the first place was because of this imbecilic statement "Its too slow and weak to fight well, especially with direct fire."

I think it's you that needs to get over yourself, just look at your post. You're so triggered it's embarrassing.

Edited by Spr1ggan, 30 July 2017 - 04:15 AM.

[Antares102]

Reza Malin, on 30 July 2017 - 02:43 AM, said:

Oh look, more anecdotal evidence.

For all i know, you exclusively play FW in a full unit killing pugs.

Nonsense ! I have seen Spr1ggan many times in SoloQ and he wrecked face with his Cougar (1 HLL and 3+ ML IIRC). He regularly did 600-900 damage and several kills. In fact kudos for doing so with such a slow light mech.

Edited by Antares102, 30 July 2017 - 03:52 AM.

[Reza Malin]

Spr1ggan, on 30 July 2017 - 03:35 AM, said:

"However you come along talking like you are gods gift to cougars, slating everything that isn't yours. Get over yourself." Laughable, the 1 heavy large laser + 6 ermeds is Gas Guzzler's build. So i guess i must be slating it by promoting it? Nice logic.

The vast majority of your post is based of things that have only happened in your head. I didn't say anywhere that this was an MRBC mech nor do i play FW. The only reason i even replied to you in the first place was because of this imbecilic statement "Its too slow and weak to fight well, especially with direct fire."

I think it's you that needs to get over yourself, just look at your post. You're so triggered it's embarrassing.

I didnt say you said it was MRBC, i was saying it about my build.

It is too slow and weak to fight well.

Its a clan light that goes 87kph with speed tweak, and it is very broad. It dies fast in any kind of direct fire engagement against a competent player.

Ok if you are sat on a hill sniping while your team wades in and offers targets, and no one shooting at your cougar then yes it is not too weak. Then again nothing is in those circumstances....

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Reza Malin, on 30 July 2017 - 04:07 AM, said:

I didnt say you said it was MRBC, i was saying it about my build.

It is too slow and weak to fight well.

Its a clan light that goes 87kph with speed tweak, and it is very broad. It dies fast in any kind of direct fire engagement against a competent player.

Ok if you are sat on a hill sniping while your team wades in and offers targets, and no one shooting at your cougar then yes it is not too weak. Then again nothing is in those circumstances....

Isn't that the point?

As soon as you're bringing a light, you're no longer playing a mech that shares armor with the team. The entire point is to do damage without taking any in return- unlike Assaults or Heavies that can afford to trade armor. Lights work primarily by disrupting the enemy- either squirrelling them up close or putting the enemy team in a crossfire with long range sniping.

ATMs are just not good unless you get the perfect storm of matchmaking of Polar Highlands with no AMS on the enemy team. The HLL + 5 ERML build is far more flexible. I just played one game in it and I can confirm it's pretty legit. You pop up, hit someone for 50 damage, then pull back and relocate as you cool down. A twin ATM9 build is just not as good, and twin ATM12 is just bad even as missile-based loadouts go since you've got way too much launcher and not nearly enough ammo, unless you're stripping the armor down to basically nothing and making the whole "Cougar too weak to fight well" a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Edited by Aggravated Assault Mech, 30 July 2017 - 04:26 AM.

[Spr1ggan]

Reza Malin, on 30 July 2017 - 04:07 AM, said:

I didnt say you said it was MRBC, i was saying it about my build.

It is too slow and weak to fight well.

Its a clan light that goes 87kph with speed tweak, and it is very broad. It dies fast in any kind of direct fire engagement against a competent player.

Ok if you are sat on a hill sniping while your team wades in and offers targets, and no one shooting at your cougar then yes it is not too weak. Then again nothing is in those circumstances....

You don't have sit back while they wade in though. You just have to be close enough to your heavies and assaults. Most of the time the bigger mechs on your team will be prioritised. This lets you get off pretty high damage alphas for a 35 tonner. It also has very good accel/decel so you can peek people relatively quickly. And if you add jj's then you can tank more damage get to better firing positions.

Although sitting back and shooting isn't a bad idea with this mech, it is a fire support mech after all. Don't get me wrong though, by sitting back, i'm talking 400-600m back.

You are correct about it being fragile. Just like the Kitfox and Adder, a bad peek or someone that walks into your back while peeking. Means either you die or you lose an ST. That's why i was suggesting armour quirks. It's strengths are that it's unlikley to be a priority target while being able to carry a lot of guns, so that's what i play around.

As for MRBC. In my opinion it will most likely be used like Kitfoxes and Adders, as SRM boats. That's just going by current circumstances though.

[Reza Malin]

Aggravated Assault Mech, on 30 July 2017 - 04:25 AM, said:

Isn't that the point?

As soon as you're bringing a light, you're no longer playing a mech that shares armor with the team. The entire point is to do damage without taking any in return- unlike Assaults or Heavies that can afford to trade armor. Lights work primarily by disrupting the enemy- either squirrelling them up close or putting the enemy team in a crossfire with long range sniping.

ATMs are just not good unless you get the perfect storm of matchmaking of Polar Highlands with no AMS on the enemy team. The HLL + 5 ERML build is far more flexible. I just played one game in it and I can confirm it's pretty legit. You pop up, hit someone for 50 damage, then pull back and relocate as you cool down. A twin ATM9 build is just not as good, and twin ATM12 is just bad even as missile-based loadouts go since you've got way too much launcher and not nearly enough ammo, unless you're stripping the armor down to basically nothing and making the whole "Cougar too weak to fight well" a self-fulfilling prophecy.

What i like about ATMs is that you can fire them with minimal exposure with buffed target decay, anf you dont need to spend valuable seconds aiming, increasing the chances of getting rekt.

If you stay within about 300m you can also benefit from the increased damage of ATMs at optimal range.

This is what ATMs are good for. Im not suggesting you sit back at long range pelting ATMs. Anyone who uses ATM like that doesnt understand them. They are not LRM. They are aggressive missiles that cover the gap between SRM and LRM.

For me they are ideal for a fragile but agile chassis like the cougar.

Edited by Reza Malin, 31 July 2017 - 11:48 AM.

[Reza Malin]

Spr1ggan, on 30 July 2017 - 04:35 AM, said:

You don't have sit back while they wade in though. You just have to be close enough to your heavies and assaults. Most of the time the bigger mechs on your team will be prioritised. This lets you get off pretty high damage alphas for a 35 tonner. It also has very good accel/decel so you can peek people relatively quickly. And if you add jj's then you can tank more damage get to better firing positions.

Although sitting back and shooting isn't a bad idea with this mech, it is a fire support mech after all. Don't get me wrong though, by sitting back, i'm talking 400-600m back.

You are correct about it being fragile. Just like the Kitfox and Adder, a bad peek or someone that walks into your back while peeking. Means either you die or you lose an ST. That's why i was suggesting armour quirks. It's strengths are that it's unlikley to be a priority target while being able to carry a lot of guns, so that's what i play around.

As for MRBC. In my opinion it will most likely be used like Kitfoxes and Adders, as SRM boats. That's just going by current circumstances though.

See that is more like it.

No need for condescending. Its just a discussion, everyone likes different things, otherwise it would be a boring game and a boring world!

You make some good points. I always find though, that when i try direct fire i get focused anyway, even with juicier targets around me. Maybe i have just been on the wrong team.

That is half the battle with QP in my experience.

[Spr1ggan]

Reza Malin, on 30 July 2017 - 05:19 AM, said:

See that is more like it.

No need for condescending. Its just a discussion, everyone likes different things, otherwise it would be a boring game and a boring world!

You make some good points. I always find though, that when i try direct fire i get focused anyway, even with juicier targets around me. Maybe i have just been on the wrong team.

That is half the battle with QP in my experience.

Well the problem a lot of the time is that the juicier targets like assaults tend to try and avoid fighting as much as possible in quickplay for w/e reason. You can be next to them one second and as soon as they've taken a medium laser hit they run to the back or hide behind a building for minutes.

The issue i have with the cougar and ATM's is the sweet spot range for doing the most damage. It's quite close for a mech the speed of a heavy with the armour of a non quirked light.

Besides if dudes on the other team are focusing you over bigger more threatening targets when you're in something like a cougar while using direct fire. You must be doing something right.

Edited by Spr1ggan, 31 July 2017 - 01:40 PM.

[Trenchbird]

I put together a quad SRM6A plus ECM build, but I haven't test driven it yet.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Hey there. Just wondering what so special about cougar that everyone so hyped about?
I mean under-engined lights with heavy guns were around since the beginning of times but they were always considered troll builds to make funny videos and not something serious.

[Trenchbird]

They provide the firepower of a medium or, rarely, a low-end heavy on a mucch smaller package. The same quality that makes them decent joke mechs also makes them effective units in general.

For example, a boomraven.

[Hawk819]

Mine is based on the Cougar B:

ER PPC - RA
ER PPC - LA
ER Medium Laser - HD

6 doubles: RA(1), LA (1), RT (2), and LT (2).

Edited by Hawk819, 31 July 2017 - 01:18 PM.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Nema Nabojiv, on 31 July 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

Hey there. Just wondering what so special about cougar that everyone so hyped about?
I mean under-engined lights with heavy guns were around since the beginning of times but they were always considered troll builds to make funny videos and not something serious.

A 50-60 point direct-fire alpha that runs around at medium 'Mech speeds and has the target profile of a light 'Mech is too dangerous to dismiss as a joke, squishy though it might be if something bigger and meaner takes notice of it. Unlike gunbag troll builds on IS lights (which really can't push that much firepower even after taking a smaller engine and shaving most of their armor off), the COU, ADR, and KFX can make glass cannon a viable playstyle... and that's what the hype is about.

If MRMs had their spread tightened up a bit, it might actually be possible to run a few of the IS lights the same way as the Clan 'pocket mediums', but as is nothing they can mount comes close. That's what makes them into troll builds- they can't push higher damage output with larger weapons than they can with smaller ones, so it's all sacrifice and no gain. Slow Clan lights get something in return for being slow.

Although, if the Urbie is any indication, PGI seems to have settled on making slow IS lights into micro-tanks to offset their lack of offensive punch... so it'll be interesting to see where the concept goes from there.

[Logan Fel]

I've been getting some interesting results with 2*ATM 9's 2* HML's and a Light Tag in the head instead of ECM, the reduction in lock time helps alot for firing off ATM's in the sweet spot.

Edited by Logan Fel, 01 August 2017 - 12:08 PM.

[Revis Volek]

3 Hvy med's 1 med pulse and 2 SRM 6w/ art.

[xe N on]

Antares102, on 30 July 2017 - 03:40 AM, said:

Nonsense ! I have seen Spr1ggan many times in SoloQ and he wrecked face with his Cougar (1 HLL and 3+ ML IIRC). He regularly did 600-900 damage and several kills. In fact kudos for doing so with such a slow light mech.

As far as I can say of matches with Sp1ggan in QP he is a exceptional good player and would even score good numbers if put into a 20 ton mech with only one small laser.

So, builds that works for him are not representative for other players, especially in lower tiers.

[JollyGreenJackAss]

COU-BA
1xAC-2
3xER-ML
2XLRM-5
1xAMS (can run laser but I find it a tad too hot on certain maps)
1xECM

Have had moderate success either running with Assaults as Fire support and breaking off to deal with lights. Or as a flanker helping turn and harass the enemy. Still quick enough and hard to target so you can get in and out of engagements at-will. Tried running as a combo wolf pack with another cougar and a couple faster lights. Didn’t work as well. Seems to come into its own when it’s acting as a mini less ton intensive timber.