56 replies to this topic

[Xetelian]

That is only 5.47 DPS even with 30 DHS.

You could change to 6 MPL and run 32 DHS with over 7.3 DPS.

MAD-IIC

Basically it takes 4 seconds to cycle a MPL

It takes 7.3 seconds to cycle a heavy large laser
It takes 5 seconds to cycle an ERMedium

So you can alpha more times with the MPL even if it is a smaller alpha.


Having a huge alpha is an advantage in LOLALPHAwarrior online but unless you're hill humping (which the MAD IIC isn't great for since the arms are relatively low) and firing then hiding for most of the match the massive duration and cool down will leave you useless for almost 10 seconds. Also, you're creating a buttload of heat. 30 DHS have mad dissipation but that alpha is a HUGE heat spike, meaning even more time out of the fight cooling off.


Also, good luck killing a couple light mechs that catch you out with those massive durations on the lasers.
Brawlers that get around your cover will eat you alive.


That is just how I see it, I could be totally wrong, I've never had huge success with 1000 damage matches in massive alpha super hot builds.



Also I like the range on 2LPL and 4 ERML, about the same in heat efficiency and DPS but lower total alpha by like 20 damage.

Edited by Xetelian, 30 July 2017 - 01:57 AM.

[Antares102]

Xetelian, on 30 July 2017 - 01:35 AM, said:

That is only 5.47 DPS even with 30 DHS.

You could change to 6 MPL and run

Its not about the sustained DPS.
Its about the high alpha and the reduced need to expose yourself.
High alphas also increase the chance of one-shot-kill somebody and not spread damage with two shots in a row.

[Xetelian]

Antares102, on 30 July 2017 - 01:50 AM, said:

Its not about the sustained DPS.
Its about the high alpha and the reduced need to expose yourself.
High alphas also increase the chance of one-shot-kill somebody and not spread damage with two shots in a row.

If you can get that massive duration all on the same component.


Unless you're facing a potato that never twists and straight up face tanks the entire shot to the CT you're going to splashing all over the place. Sure you'll take an arm off in one go but then you need to take a side, maybe the other arm, then the other side to really kill someone who is twisting like mad, and then you have them coming right back at you with their damage.

[Antares102]

Xetelian, on 30 July 2017 - 02:00 AM, said:

Unless you're facing a potato that never twists and straight up face tanks the entire shot to the CT you're going to splashing all over the place.

If you think high alpha builds are for shooting people knowing exactly where you are or even facing them off directly you have the wrong concept in your head about alpha poking.
The obvious idea is to shoot people that do NOT know that you are there and therefore have less chance to react/twist.
Normally it works like:
Alpha, reposition and cooldown, alpha, reposition and cooldown, ...

Edited by Antares102, 30 July 2017 - 01:16 PM.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Antares102, on 30 July 2017 - 02:13 AM, said:

If you think hit alpha builds are for shooting people knowing exactly where you are or even facing them off directly you have the wrong concept in your head about alpha poking.
The obvious idea is to shoot people that do NOT know that you are there and therefore have less chance to react/twist.
Normally it works like:
Alpha, reposition and cooldown, alpha, reposition and cooldown, ...

Yup. Which is exactly why the Hunch is ideal for that kind of build- all high mounts, relatively small (by comparison), relatively mobile. Peek out, blast off a torso, hide and relocate. Lather, rinse, repeat. A good two thirds of any given match in this game is the peek war phase. If you've got an alpha that can make hard kills quickly at 500m, it doesn't matter if you're vulnerable when the brawl starts, because by then you've punched out more than twice your tonnage. Contribution made.

[C4NC3R]

Antares102, on 29 July 2017 - 11:34 PM, said:

Sorry, but you didnt get the message.
The 78 Alpha is a single shot with duration of ~1.4sec without triggering ghost heat.
Your build will have 2.4 sec duration (which is aweful) without triggering ghost heat.
Furthermore SNV is way slower than MAD-IIC.
Further-Furthermore MAD-IIC has 30 DHS and your build only got 25.

Ah... and you forgot the TC1 in the head for the remaining 1.5t available podspace.

Actually my build allow you have 3 kills before shutdown from safe distance, yours ain't.

Edited by C4NC3R, 30 July 2017 - 08:51 AM.

[Cato Phoenix]

That HBK build is hot.

Like sweating under my collar hot.

I love it.

----

That MADIIC build with 4 medium pulse is woefully underpowered. DPS is not the end all be all of mech combat. You have to find a good compromise between burst damage and sustained damage. While that build may be able to fire forever, the chances are that you're not ever going to be in that situation. A heavier-gunned mech will be able to take it out with superior manuevering and focused fire before you ever get those little tickles to add up.

[Aleski]

I have try several Ultimate lazor vomit in Puglandia, even if you're hot like hell, it still works !!! I can't believe that Heavy Lazors are actually usefull and so goddamn fun !


Those builds are working very well :

El Vomito Stormcrow :
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...49e8b44e22dad77

Dat Hellbringer :
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a83d7c5cc515aa1

This one too but with less range and more crazy :
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...639b1fabc1962a7

Other builds with Heavy Lazors that have saved some chassis :
Kit Fox Prime (I) with ECM + HLL + 2xHML + 4xHMG
Shadow Cat Prime (I) with 6xLMG + 2xHLL
Ice Ferret Prime (I) with 2xASRM6 + 3xHSL

I'm going to try a mad Timberwolf with a High Alpha No Ghost Heat (HANGH for the professional) build :
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5d1fd868d325d58

79 Alpha without ghost heat and 31% Heat Efficiency in Puglandia ? Holy Grail, let's have some fun and let's go ruining some pugs day !!! Yeepee !

Edited by Aleski, 30 July 2017 - 09:00 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Just do it with LPL. Same thing we've been running forma while but better heat and shorter burn.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Other Ultravomit builds:

Cougar

Adder

Hellbringer

Linebacker

The key points of all of those being that the HLLs are both high mounted, allowing them to ridge peek, and the ability to alpha at least once without risking a shutdown (I use the caldera on Caustic as a heat baseline; if it can alpha in the caldera while running at top speed, then I call it workable). If you prefer side-peeking, that works too with a little internal re-arrangement.

[Bigbacon]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 29 July 2017 - 08:54 PM, said:

If you can fire an alpha that large without tripping ghost heat and shutting down, then it makes sense to do it. It means you only have to peek half as often, which translates directly into taking less damage and thus living longer to fire more alphas. It's not such a massive disadvantage at close range, because you can always split off smaller weapon groups to stay cool.



In TT heat penalties only applied after heat dissipation, at the very end of the round. 21xDHS (for the HBK version of the laser lolpha build) means you can dissipate 42 heat before checking the penalty table after firing an alpha with that HBK-IIC-A build... which would leave 24 heat at the end of the round (6x5 heat at TT ERML values + 2x18 for HLL = 66; 66 - 42 = 24- the same value as a stock NVA-Prime after an alpha, in fact). That MAD-IIC in the OP would end up with 6 heat left over after an alpha strike, which only triggers the lowest possible penalty (-1 to movement) with no risk of shutdown.

The HBK would risk a shutdown on alpha, with a high save roll, but would not force shutdown (that only happens at 30 heat, with no chance to make a save roll). It would not explode.

The MAD-IIC in the OP would actually run cooler in TT. Much, much cooler. You'd be able to alpha every other round, and fire most of your weapons (minus three of your ERML to sink the leftover heat and avoid generating more) every single round, and all it would cost you is 1 MP every other round. You could alpha twice in a row without even risking the lowest save roll for a shutdown check. If you could find a body of water to sit in while firing, you could be very nearly heat neutral thanks to your leg-mounted skins gaining double effectiveness... and then fire no fewer than six successive alpha strikes before rolling a shutdown check (two before incurring any kind of penalty at all).

The reason laservomit is strong in MWO isn't because of differences in the heat mechanics- if anything, MWO's effective heat threshold is lower than in TT. Laservomit is strong because lasers are hitscan weapons with perfect convergence, so using them is only a matter of keeping your crosshair over whatever you want to die for the duration of the burn.

Yes, there should be more heat penalties for riding the high side of the heat curve- movement, accuracy, ammo explosions... but the heat threshold is fine where it is.

and this isn't TT......so

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Then your idea of a "real" heat setup is... what, exactly?

[Antares102]

MischiefSC, on 30 July 2017 - 09:04 AM, said:

Just do it with LPL. Same thing we've been running forma while but better heat and shorter burn.

Done it for many games. TBH HLL are better combined with ERML especially after the LPL damage nerf.

Edited by Antares102, 30 July 2017 - 12:47 PM.

[Coolant]

be great if pilots would think outside the box

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

Many thanks Ant for the build. I am going to give this a try. I've seen the scores you get (before this tech) so I'll trust you.

Overall I feel laser vom for clans has crept back in as the "in thing"...

Not cause they're good but because everything else got nerfed. I've had some good success using the old tech laser combos. Heavy lasers just take a bit too long to recharge for me. I think I need to keep trying them I guess.

[Gas Guzzler]

Laser vomit has been the thing since the skill tree dropped...

[Aleski]

The Unstoppable Puggernaut, on 30 July 2017 - 12:52 PM, said:

Not cause they're good but because everything else got nerfed. I've had some good success using the old tech laser combos. Heavy lasers just take a bit too long to recharge for me. I think I need to keep trying them I guess.

As Antares explained it, the thing is to focus on people that don't know you're shooting them. Last matches in the Hellbringer, they were a Cicada poking with ERLL. When i saw him, i was on his left size, i have wait for him to stop moving before he shoots, vomit to his ST and *POP* he was dead in only one shot even with the bad duration of the HLL.

Those build work well when you peak and play it sneaky. The purpose is to avoid to be stuck in a brawl or with lights scraching your back. You have to stay with your team and made some suppresive fire. Even if some people saw your build, they will torso twist like crazy to avoid to be one shot, and that will cause less fire to your team.

[Aleski]

Gas Guzzler, on 30 July 2017 - 01:02 PM, said:

Laser vomit has been the thing since the skill tree dropped...

It's for a reason, they are great in Puglandia.

Since new tech i have build some impressive PPFLD brawler on the IS side like Dragon Flame with AC/20+SNPPC+LFE300 or Marauder 3R with LFE325+AC/20+2xSNPPC.

Those builds does not exist on clan side, but clans mech have insane lasers, very hot and with very high damages plus they have smaller DHS.

[Weeny Machine]

Bigbacon, on 29 July 2017 - 05:43 PM, said:

and....if they had a real heat setup in this game, you'd pop after the first one...

that is why laser vomit rules in this game.

If you had some "soft" drawbacks on higher heat levels, the game would be much more strategic. Too bad we won't get that because...yeah, why?

[Gas Guzzler]

Coolant, on 30 July 2017 - 12:46 PM, said:

be great if pilots would think outside the box